CloseQuote:
nberry said:
Yes there are differences in the level of Sap's.
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nberry said:
Carlos there is a venue where all car manufacturers can set up their cars as they like to compete. It is called Formula One racing. Oops I forgot Porsche does not like to compete in any race events where engineering really matters.
Better to dope the public and live off your pass laurels. Why not, the sap's continue to buy their cars.
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MKW said:Quote:
nberry said:
Yes there are differences in the level of Sap's.
Yes, and since you have in the past and still own current Porsche products, you Sir Nixalot ,are as Sappy as they come, I'm afraid. BTW, you STILL haven't answered where you are from
Feb 27, 2005 4:46:11 PM
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jecey said:
1. Ferrari does not need to break the time in the NS. They are WORLD CHAMPIONS in the F1 for some years. Where is Porsche now ?
Feb 27, 2005 6:38:46 PM
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Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
jecey said:
1. Ferrari does not need to break the time in the NS. They are WORLD CHAMPIONS in the F1 for some years. Where is Porsche now ?
Jecey, that will be of any value when F1 cars are legalised for street use and readily available for purchase by customers, until then that has no relation to who the production cars we can drive on the streets perform.
Also bringing a support crew for technical and repair assitance to the journos during the test is not a problem, thats normal procedure, but creating a special Nring prepped and tunned car specifically for the test is not. None of the other rivals has had that advantage in the SportAuto test, the point is how do the production cars as sold to us customers faires in the ring for comparison, it should be just like any other normal production Enzo supplied for the other magazine tests that the Enzo appeared in.
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vtrader said:Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos there is a venue where all car manufacturers can set up their cars as they like to compete. It is called Formula One racing. Oops I forgot Porsche does not like to compete in any race events where engineering really matters.
Better to dope the public and live off your pass laurels. Why not, the sap's continue to buy their cars.
Isn't the reason Ferrari got into Formula One is they got the butt kicked at Le Mans by Porsche? Why did Ferrari drop out of Le Mans way before Porsche did? Is it because Porsche dominated the race for so long?
Feb 27, 2005 8:56:48 PM
Feb 27, 2005 10:33:43 PM
its not meant for any real comparison like the one I just posted or SportAuto's, etc, the way the tests are conducted there they are meant to be taken with a grain of salt in Jeremy Clarkson's style. The Enzo could be fatser than the CGT in the ring for all we know, but Top Gear is not the best place to look for info.
Feb 27, 2005 10:54:05 PM
Feb 27, 2005 11:12:05 PM
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jecey said:
It's interesting though to know the times.
Feb 27, 2005 11:42:26 PM
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Carlos from Spain said:
Top Gear's test track??? thats just for entertainment purposes
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vtrader said:Quote:
vtrader said:Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos there is a venue where all car manufacturers can set up their cars as they like to compete. It is called Formula One racing. Oops I forgot Porsche does not like to compete in any race events where engineering really matters.
Better to dope the public and live off your pass laurels. Why not, the sap's continue to buy their cars.
Isn't the reason Ferrari got into Formula One is they got the butt kicked at Le Mans by Porsche? Why did Ferrari drop out of Le Mans way before Porsche did? Is it because Porsche dominated the race for so long?
Nick, nick, nick, 1965...
Great year, that was the last time Ferrari won Le Mans. How many times did Porsche beat them since then? And then they had to drop out and go over to Formula One. Le Mans has been the single road race where most manufacturers have tried to win and some have except for Ferrari, who has not won at Le Mans for forty years!
. 
Feb 28, 2005 7:21:41 AM
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svtrader1 said:Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Top Gear's test track??? thats just for entertainment purposes
I don't think you should denegrate any source just because it disagrees with your biases. Top Gear's comparison is fair and reputable, IMO. So, I simply extrapolate those numbers and figure the Enzo will be about 8 seconds faster.
With regards to Clarkson, I'll admit he may be a character, but nevertheless, a fairly straight shooter in my estimation.
As for your source, I have no clue what is says, because it's foreign to me. But, if it's German, I could see how they might be a bit biased, themselves. I'm not say they are... just saying it's possible. Most of the magazines I've read regarding the Enzo and CGT have the former being a tad superior. The empirical data seems to point that way.
Feb 28, 2005 7:27:26 AM
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ben, lj said:
I don't know why it is wrong to "adjust" the suspension on an Enzo in the same manner a customer car can be for this test. These are supercars which are designed to shine on the track and every racing team in the world tweaks (suspension settings, tire pressures, etc) their cars for specific tracks. And afterall, the CGT was R&D'd on the 'ring. If Ferrari tweaks the ECU or messes with tires, etc though, that's pretty much cheating.
Feb 28, 2005 4:46:24 PM
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Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
ben, lj said:
I don't know why it is wrong to "adjust" the suspension on an Enzo in the same manner a customer car can be for this test. These are supercars which are designed to shine on the track and every racing team in the world tweaks (suspension settings, tire pressures, etc) their cars for specific tracks. And afterall, the CGT was R&D'd on the 'ring. If Ferrari tweaks the ECU or messes with tires, etc though, that's pretty much cheating.
Ben,
The CGT used the ring for its development in order to develop its performance for the street and for its customers, but it wasn't set up "for" the ring. There is a difference, in other words, one thing is to use the ring for development, another is to make a ring CGT tunned version. The first is the production version, the latter would be even faster than the production version at the ring yet it would not represent the customer car. Same with the ENZO. No morel, no less.
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