Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering - Page1

Jan 29, 2005 8:23:25 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002

Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering the

997 and 997S at the same time is this an effort by Porsche to limit production in their own way? Based on some of the post, it appears depending which country your in there is at least a three month wait for a S. I do not see any lengthy wait for the facelifted standard 997. Does anyone know how many they plan to produce of each in a given year assuming they are all sold?

Maybe Porsche is finally considering owner value over profits.

If so, it is a good sign.

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Jan 29, 2005 8:28:16 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

I'm not sure NIck, I'm more inclined to think its more an issue of Porsche understimating the demand of the 997S vs the 997, and now they are likely trying to increase 997S production to match demand to try to even things out

FWIW I ordered my 997S at end of December and could of had it delivered by end of February (2 months) if it weren't for the sport exhaust.

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Jan 29, 2005 9:47:30 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

I think they will produce as many as they possibly can until they get a small surplus of cars sitting at the dealer lots.

I mean this is absurd; for example, I have been trying at various dealers to find a car with sport seat they will allow me to sit in, and nobody has any cars!

Pretty soon they are going to run out off pent-up demand from Porschephiles and will need some cars parked in the dealer showroom to convince more undecided people to buy.

Customers like us, who will order and buy a car almost sight-unseen, are not in unlimited supply.

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Jan 30, 2005 12:49:33 AM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

I'm curious why they offered both at the same time? It seems like introducing the 997 first then following up with an "S" later would make sense. Not sure if this has anything to do with previous intros. I know people are buying regular 997's but given the added benefits of an "S" for not a lot more, that this might cannibalize the 997 sales. Anyone know what their thinking was?

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Jan 30, 2005 1:10:08 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

Quote:
SrfCity said:
I'm curious why they offered both at the same time?

The base 997 is not much of a "performance" improvement over the 996 for a new model, so if they had introduced the 997 alone without the 997S, the press and the public would of really critizised Porsche's next generation 911 for not offering any performance improvements in the most important aspects: the engine, the suspensions, and the brakes. So they offered a 997 and the 997S at the same time so that everybody naturaly focused on the 997S. After 6 years of the 996, the 997S is what the new base model should rightfully be and base 997 is an excuse to charge a 10k mark-up for the sucesor of the 996, the so called "S" version. And judging by 997"S" sales, it worked well with the public, and the press almost solely focused on the 997S as well.

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Jan 30, 2005 2:22:44 AM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

OK, makes sense. Smart on P's part. But, does this not cannibalize(or hurt) the sales of the regular 997? I know some people don't care but for me there was no question on purchasing an "S". Maybe Porsche are regulating supply such that "S's" are not as prevalent so people just decide to take a 997. I spoke to a guy today who was driving his wife's 997 and she felt that it was plenty for her so that's why she bought it plus I think they didn't have an S available at the time.

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Jan 30, 2005 9:53:04 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

I agree, I does canibalise sales of the base 997, more than they expected it seems, but the sales stay in the house with the 10k up 997S.
In my delaership they are barely selling any 997, they are all 997S orders except for the 997 versions he brings to the showroom and sells that way.

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Jan 30, 2005 11:02:26 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
I'm not sure NIck, I'm more inclined to think its more an issue of Porsche understimating the demand of the 997S vs the 997, and now they are likely trying to increase 997S production to match demand to try to even things out

FWIW I ordered my 997S at end of December and could of had it delivered by end of February (2 months) if it weren't for the sport exhaust.

hi carlos, any news for the sport exhaust???

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Jan 30, 2005 12:05:35 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

Hi Dimitri, not yet but RC is waiting for it for retrofit so he should get it before I get my car built with it so stay tunned, hopefully for March

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Jan 30, 2005 12:49:22 PM

nicholas j: Senior; Loc: Upstate New York , United States; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 23, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering the

I visited three Porsche dealers before making my decision. All three had the same answer on imports to the U.S., 15,000.....divided evenly between the 997 and 997s. They said these numbers do not include the 997 4s or the Turbo, which will be available later in the year.

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Jan 30, 2005 1:54:40 PM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: nicholas j

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering the

If Porsche can sell a more expensive model, then its not canabalizing sales. It only considered "canabalizing" if people started to buy a cheaper model. Like if the Boxster started taking sales away from 997's, that would be canabalizing. For Porsche, they love selling more expensive cars.

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Jan 30, 2005 2:13:20 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering the

The more choice, the better.
I don't think it makes a big difference in terms of Opex for Porsche as which models sells better. The capex has probably been absorbed by now.
997 or 997S, for Porsche, same car if you ask me, in terms of production operations that is.
So it's winner.
It's a bit like when the 996 4S came along, well you had the 996 4 already. Ok arguably, more differences than between the 997 and 997S but same principles though. Under the skin, production costs for the 4S where probably the same as the 4, in the sense that, Turbo bodies where already developed for the Turbo.
Same for the C4S cab, etc etc etc.
For Porsche, it's all major global range.
I remember reading that their biggest profit car model was, logically, the 996 Turbo. Makes perfect sense.
So to conclude, I agree with you, but the more the better anyway.

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Jan 30, 2005 4:31:07 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
SrfCity said:
I'm curious why they offered both at the same time?

The base 997 is not much of a "performance" improvement over the 996 for a new model, so if they had introduced the 997 alone without the 997S, the press and the public would of really critizised Porsche's next generation 911 for not offering any performance improvements in the most important aspects: the engine, the suspensions, and the brakes. So they offered a 997 and the 997S at the same time so that everybody naturaly focused on the 997S. After 6 years of the 996, the 997S is what the new base model should rightfully be and base 997 is an excuse to charge a 10k mark-up for the sucesor of the 996, the so called "S" version. And judging by 997"S" sales, it worked well with the public, and the press almost solely focused on the 997S as well.

BINGO!

How else do you increase a price of your base model by over 10% especially when you are hedged for exchange rate disruptions.

I suspect Porsche is banking on people buying the S and thus will increase its production to meet demand. They will not engage in arbitrarily set preproduction numbers.

These guys are REALLY good!.

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Jan 30, 2005 5:07:14 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

Yes, to my eyes what the end result is that the new generation 911 (type 997) has gotten 10k more expensive than the previous generation, but thats it. 10k more but its also a big improvement over the type 996 as well so in the end fair enough, its logical the price should go up with each gen just like with other brands, the only thing I would complain about is that the base 997 should of came with 350HP and the 997S with 380HP from the start and not hold it back for the facelift in a few years.

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Jan 31, 2005 10:45:48 AM

Shaun: Newbie; Loc: Tarragona, Spain; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

Carlos,
I'm in the Barcelona area and am about to take the plunge

and order.

Where did you place your order for the 997S.

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Jan 31, 2005 8:15:52 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Shaun

Re: Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering

Welcome Shaun, and congrats!

I ordered mine in Vigo

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Not a negative post but one of questioning. By offering the

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