Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM???? - Page1

Jan 26, 2005 7:58:22 PM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003

Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

If I decide to go for Boxster, do you suggest me that a coilovers set-up is better than PASM??
I know that KW produces adjustable coilovers, the better(and personal) choice for personal setting.
So for you, which ones is the best and what offers more than others???
I'm searching for adjustable coilovers, to have more choice
The battle is between:

KW

Bilstein

Koni (I don't know if there are adjustables)

Fk

Thank you so much and excuse my english.

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Jan 26, 2005 8:17:37 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: andrea

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Who knows how coil overs compare to PASM since I doubt anyone has compared the two, but my guess is that since coil overs will be stiffer than PASM, lower CG and also traditional type shock-spring, they should be better handling in its sportiest height and dampnings settings. But be aware that in order to achieve the better handling you will get a very stiff ride, and also every time you want to change the height (if you want to anyway) you will have to take it to the shop and have it corner balanced as well. And PASM being such a capable suspension already, coil overs would be moe for track enthusiasts and the like or those who want the very low ride height look, otherwise PASM should be fine IMO and coil overs overkill.

As to the brands, I would look into Bilstein, since not only do they make suspensions for Porsche (the factory 996's M030 sport suspension's shocks are by Bilstein) but also people seem to be very happy with the PSS9 coil over kit from Bilstein. There is already a PSS9 kit for the 997, so there should be one for the 987 as well alreday I suppose.

I suggest you try PASM and then decide if you need a sportier setup, becuase PASM tends to surprise people how good it is, even though for myself I still preffer the -20mm/rear LSD suspension.

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Jan 27, 2005 7:18:42 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Thanks Carlos.
What about Ohlins??? I know that Ruf uses these. Are they adjustables????

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Jan 27, 2005 8:13:59 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: andrea

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
andrea said:
If I decide to go for Boxster, do you suggest me that a coilovers set-up is better than PASM??
I know that KW produces adjustable coilovers, the better(and personal) choice for personal setting.
So for you, which ones is the best and what offers more than others???
I'm searching for adjustable coilovers, to have more choice
The battle is between:

KW

Bilstein

Koni (I don't know if there are adjustables)

Fk

Thank you so much and excuse my english.

Are you SURE you want a Boxster and not a Lotus Exige / Elise?

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Jan 27, 2005 10:15:17 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: andrea

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

It really depends what you want. It is difficult to get a much better setup from coilover kits because Porsche is well known of designing and testing their suspensions very very well. A coilover kit has the advantage of adjustments to certain tracks, a huge advantage if you're racing your car. PASM or not PASM? Difficult to say. I would probably choose it, especially on the Boxster. The only disadvantage of PASM: you can't install a coilover kit if you want to.

And if you're more into looks (much lower ride height)than into performance, PASM is the wrong choice. On the other hand, the Boxster isn't actually made for racing and going for coilover kits which lower the car too much could have a serious impact on chassis rigidity, roof mechanism and noises.
From my past experience, I would stay with Porsche suspension setups. When I installed the H&R coilover kit on my 996 Turbo, I loved the setup. But afterwards I drove the Porsche sport suspension kit for the 996 Turbo and I've been shocked by the PERFECT setup compared to the H&R coilover kit. If I wouldn't have sold my 996 Turbo, I would have removed the H&R coilover kit and gone for the Porsche sport kit.

I know that many people believe that installing a coilover kit will enhance performance but they couldn't be more wrong on a Porsche. Stiff and low ride height doesn't mean that a car handles better on the track, something especially amateur race drivers still have to learn.

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Jan 27, 2005 11:49:36 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Thanks RC, I understood what you said.

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Jan 27, 2005 11:03:20 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12585, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: andrea

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
andrea said:
Thanks Carlos.
What about Ohlins??? I know that Ruf uses these. Are they adjustables????

Ohlins are some of the VERY best shocks in the world. They are very expensive too (around $10k for their best) and have multiple adjustments (height, Low Speed compression, High Speed Compression, Rebound). They have outboard nitrogen resevoirs that can be filled to varying pressures to act as additional (or less) spring as well. These are really designed for racing...

There are now 4-way adjustable Motons available too

http://www.motonsuspension.com/

I just posted this for fun (and for racers), but RC is correct that the factory stuff is probably the right decision for a Boxster that will not be converted to a racecar...

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Jan 28, 2005 7:54:16 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Thanks Grant for your precious info.
Let me asking one thing enough:
for you(or other people of rennteam) which is the best???
KW
BILSTEIN
OHLINS

Thanks

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Jan 28, 2005 3:38:24 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12585, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: andrea

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Of those 3, I think the Ohlins triple adjustables are the best. Moton 4-ways may be even better though...

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Jan 28, 2005 5:13:31 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

I really don't understand all this talk about changing suspension. As RC has said Porsche's various suspensions are as near perfect as you can get. With or without PASM. Why change it? If you want to fiddle and go non - standard with something as fundamental as the suspension, surely you bought the wrong car?

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Jan 28, 2005 5:53:45 PM

RichJ: Veteran; Loc: London, England; Posts: 846, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
dreamcar said:
Quote:
andrea said:
If I decide to go for Boxster, do you suggest me that a coilovers set-up is better than PASM??
I know that KW produces adjustable coilovers, the better(and personal) choice for personal setting.
So for you, which ones is the best and what offers more than others???
I'm searching for adjustable coilovers, to have more choice
The battle is between:

KW

Bilstein

Koni (I don't know if there are adjustables)

Fk

Thank you so much and excuse my english.

Are you SURE you want a Boxster and not a Lotus Exige / Elise?

Yeah gotta agree with you there dude!

If your buying the car for track work then I'd definately check out an Exige over the boxster.

For me the exige is a proper mini racercar whilst the Boxster is more of a street racer.

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Jan 28, 2005 5:54:24 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12585, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
dreamcar said:
I really don't understand all this talk about changing suspension. As RC has said Porsche's various suspensions are as near perfect as you can get. With or without PASM. Why change it? If you want to fiddle and go non - standard with something as fundamental as the suspension, surely you bought the wrong car?

Dreamcar - I also said that I think these systems are overkill (or even worse than stock if not properly tuned) for a streetcar. But for the track, there is no comparison. One of these perfectly tuned systems is worth several seconds/lap on a 1.5 minute course...

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Jan 28, 2005 6:00:57 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
dreamcar said:
I really don't understand all this talk about changing suspension. As RC has said Porsche's various suspensions are as near perfect as you can get. With or without PASM. Why change it? If you want to fiddle and go non - standard with something as fundamental as the suspension, surely you bought the wrong car?

Dreamcar - I also said that I think these systems are overkill (or even worse than stock if not properly tuned) for a streetcar. But for the track, there is no comparison. One of these perfectly tuned systems is worth several seconds/lap on a 1.5 minute course...

BUT the Boxster is not meant to be a track car - if that's what is wanted surely a Lotus Exige would be a much better bet?

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Jan 28, 2005 6:31:08 PM

RickJK: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 69, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

While the Exige is probably available in Italy where the question was asked, that car is not available in the US where Grant's answer came from. Also, the Exige is a very different driving experience from the Boxster, and some will prefer the feel of the Porsche. Assuming the Exige is similar to the Elise with the sport suspension, I personally like the feel, and have one on order myself, but I also would like either a new Boxster if they increase the HP, or if I find a good 914-6 with fuel injection, I will jump into that as an alternative because I also enjoy the feel of these Porsches. If I could only have one of these, I would probably go for a Porsche, and tart it up for track and autocross use.

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Jan 28, 2005 7:00:50 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: RickJK

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

I believe the Elise / Exige is available in the States - that's why they used the Toyota engine - to comply with the strict emission regs over there.

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Jan 28, 2005 7:21:51 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12585, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
dreamcar said:
I believe the Elise / Exige is available in the States - that's why they used the Toyota engine - to comply with the strict emission regs over there.

The Toyota powered Elise is here now, but we don't yet have an Exige (maybe for 2006?)

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Jan 28, 2005 8:49:14 PM

tso: Senior; Loc: Denmark , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 746, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Would argue that you should ask yourself whether knowledge and time is at hand to get the possible out of such a coilover system. As said earlier you might get a noticeple (?) saving from such a coilover set but it might not work on the track where you go next weekend where a completely different setup is needed.

I would stay with the original options, and only if going serious racing/tracking in a car made for that purpose I would consider such things as the coilover set.

Thomas

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Jan 28, 2005 9:17:40 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
dreamcar said:
I believe the Elise / Exige is available in the States - that's why they used the Toyota engine - to comply with the strict emission regs over there.

The Toyota powered Elise is here now, but we don't yet have an Exige (maybe for 2006?)

An Elise 111R with bog-standard suspension would eat a Porsche Boxster with any suspension you would care to put on it on a tight circuit. Don't even think of taking on an Exige.

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Jan 28, 2005 9:49:06 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12585, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
dreamcar said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
dreamcar said:
I believe the Elise / Exige is available in the States - that's why they used the Toyota engine - to comply with the strict emission regs over there.

The Toyota powered Elise is here now, but we don't yet have an Exige (maybe for 2006?)

An Elise 111R with bog-standard suspension would eat a Porsche Boxster with any suspension you would care to put on it on a tight circuit. Don't even think of taking on an Exige.

I'm sure you're right about that. I haven't driven an Elise yet, but I think my 73 911 with less weight and 50hp more will still give it a good run

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Jan 28, 2005 9:59:25 PM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
dreamcar said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
dreamcar said:
I believe the Elise / Exige is available in the States - that's why they used the Toyota engine - to comply with the strict emission regs over there.

The Toyota powered Elise is here now, but we don't yet have an Exige (maybe for 2006?)

An Elise 111R with bog-standard suspension would eat a Porsche Boxster with any suspension you would care to put on it on a tight circuit. Don't even think of taking on an Exige.

I'm sure you're right about that. I haven't driven an Elise yet, but I think my 73 911 with less weight and 50hp more will still give it a good run

I wouldn't stake too much money on that statement, not if I was you.

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Jan 28, 2005 10:14:03 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
dreamcar said:
Quote:
Grant said:
I'm sure you're right about that. I haven't driven an Elise yet, but I think my 73 911 with less weight and 50hp more will still give it a good run

I wouldn't stake too much money on that statement, not if I was you.

... you haven't seen Grant's '73 911

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Jan 29, 2005 7:43:48 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

I wanna a Boxster not an Elise/Exige.
Please, which ones is the best????
KW
OHLINS
BILSTEIN

Thanks

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Jan 29, 2005 9:53:29 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: andrea

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
andrea said:
I wanna a Boxster not an Elise/Exige.
Please, which ones is the best????
KW
OHLINS
BILSTEIN

Thanks

Boxster S on either standard Porsche suspension or PASM. It ain't broke so don't fix it.

The Boxster is not, nor has it ever intended to be, a serious track car.

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Jan 29, 2005 9:55:26 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
dreamcar said:
Quote:
Grant said:
I'm sure you're right about that. I haven't driven an Elise yet, but I think my 73 911 with less weight and 50hp more will still give it a good run

I wouldn't stake too much money on that statement, not if I was you.

... you haven't seen Grant's '73 911

Granted (sorry).

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Jan 29, 2005 10:20:46 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: dreamcar

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Check these pics out, you will fall in love!

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=54102&page=&fpart=1&vc=1

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Jan 29, 2005 4:04:37 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12585, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Thanks Carlos

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Jan 31, 2005 9:59:38 PM

RickJK: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 69, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

Also, in a new magazine I just read - R&T perhaps, the Boxster S had a better lap time than the Elise with Sport suspension, so perhaps I had better watch out for them when I am in the Elise!!

Also - Grant's car would certainly rip the heart out of an Exige or Elise and spit it on the track. Now if I can find the right 914-6 on the other hand, well????

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Coilovers set up.....or PASM????

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