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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
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Jan 18, 2005 4:45:48 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Jan 18, 2005 4:50:46 PM
- CHAN8
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Ron (Houston)
Jan 18, 2005 5:11:26 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Re: How much will we lose a year?
No doubt that you'd loose a lot of money on any porsche now days, for example the CGT you can buy it used for below the MSRP, but C4 S coupe and cab. are hard to come by. at least at the 2 Houston dealers you hardly see any C4 S cars many 997 (not S) but hardly any C4 S models.
Jan 18, 2005 5:14:48 PM
- Grant
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Ron (Houston)
Re: How much will we lose a year?
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
No doubt that you'd loose a lot of money on any porsche now days, for example the CGT you can buy it used for below the MSRP, but C4 S coupe and cab. are hard to come by. at least at the 2 Houston dealers you hardly see any C4 S cars many 997 (not S) but hardly any C4 S models.
Once the 997C4S is out, the 996 version will take a big hit...
All current Porsches are built in mass-production quantities. GT3 is the safest bet for resale.
Jan 18, 2005 9:57:05 PM
- RonH
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Re: How much will we lose a year?
We will all lose at least 25% in the first year. The 997 keeps its value a little better than the 997s. A friend of mine purchased a 996 cab (sticker: 92k; sales price: 72k) a couple of years and could not find a buyer anywhere near the lease buyout price of 62k. The most he was offered was in the low 50's, so he ended up keeping the car. All cars depreciate significantly, but particularly cars in this class.
In the Uk we will only lose a maximun of 10% in the first year and the 997s will be more sort after on the used market than the 997. 
Re: How much will we lose a year?
Quote:
RonH said:
The 997 keeps its value a little better than the 997s.
What do you base this statement on? Have you actually compared resales of 997 and 997S? Since new 997S are in shorter supply than the regular 997 model, I would have a hard time believing that a used 997 holds it value better than a 997S.
Phil
Re: How much will we lose a year?
Friend of mine told me today he was offered a September 04 997C2S (not from an OPC) for Pounds72k. It sounds similar spec to mine (maybe a bit lower spec as it didn't have sport chrono) and mine was Pounds71k brand new last week. So values are holding well at the moment as you would expect with there being a waiting list and all that.
I think the 997 here in the UK will hold its value well for at least the first 18 months or so.
Anyway, who cares. If I wanted an investment, I'd have bought an ISA.
I think the 997 here in the UK will hold its value well for at least the first 18 months or so.
Anyway, who cares. If I wanted an investment, I'd have bought an ISA.
Jan 18, 2005 11:53:19 PM
- CHAN8
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Re: How much will we lose a year?
I was told that the uk is the country that does not hold stock 997 or the s. All other countries sell most stock cars. Not sure how true this is but would be good to know how many has bought a stock car from porsche dealer and not speced the to own requirement.
Jan 19, 2005 1:37:59 AM
- RonH
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Re: How much will we lose a year?
PS CA:
I base my statement that the 997 keeps its value a little better than the 997s on the fact that typically, higher end, more spec'd out vehicles depreciate more b/c future buyers come to the conclusion that they can buy a brand new 997 as opposed to a used 997s for closer to the same price. This fact is reflected in the residual values for the cars--997 has a higher residual value than the 997s.
I base my statement that the 997 keeps its value a little better than the 997s on the fact that typically, higher end, more spec'd out vehicles depreciate more b/c future buyers come to the conclusion that they can buy a brand new 997 as opposed to a used 997s for closer to the same price. This fact is reflected in the residual values for the cars--997 has a higher residual value than the 997s.
Re: How much will we lose a year?
Quote:
Texas911 said:
WOW, this scares me. I guess the best thing to do is just keep you car a long long time or buy it as cheap as possible, ie no options.
At least Porsche is in the top 10 of residual values. Here is a list of the top 10 with residual values after 3 years:
Vehicle Name Residual Value List Price
Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class 67% $45,250 - $80,850
BMW M3 64% $47,300 - $55,800
Dodge Viper SRT-10 64% $81,495
Mini Cooper S 64% $19,899 - $24,400
Porsche 911 (Carrera) 63% $69,300 - $79,100
Nissan 350Z 62% $26,500 - $36,450
Mercedes-Benz SL-Class 61% $89,900 - $179,000
BMW 645 60% $69,900 - $76,900
Lexus SC 430 59% $63,175
Cadillac XLR 58% $75,835
Phil
Re: How much will we lose a year?
Quote:
RonH said:
PS CA:
I base my statement that the 997 keeps its value a little better than the 997s on the fact that typically, higher end, more spec'd out vehicles depreciate more b/c future buyers come to the conclusion that they can buy a brand new 997 as opposed to a used 997s for closer to the same price. This fact is reflected in the residual values for the cars--997 has a higher residual value than the 997s.
You are right! I checked with local Porsche dealer and the following are the residual values after 3 years for cars leased through Porsche Financial.
997 59%
997S 56%
Phil
Re: How much will we lose a year?
What I found to be particularly eye-opening is the fact that the residual value on my BMW 545smg was 76% on a two year lease, whereas the residual on my 997s on a two year lease is 64%. However, we simply must accept the fact that cars are depreciating assets and if we insist on purchasing new vehicles, we take the hit--an expensive hit. As we all know, the smartest financial move is to purchase a low-mileage used vehicle and let someone else suffer the consequences.
Re: How much will we lose a year?
Quote:
RonH said:
What I found to be particularly eye-opening is the fact that the residual value on my BMW 545smg was 76% on a two year lease, whereas the residual on my 997s on a two year lease is 64%. However, we simply must accept the fact that cars are depreciating assets and if we insist on purchasing new vehicles, we take the hit--an expensive hit. As we all know, the smartest financial move is to purchase a low-mileage used vehicle and let someone else suffer the consequences.
Cos. can move around money factors/residual values/make erroneous predictions re: resale values for all kinds of reasons, incl. moving slow-selling cars to generate revenues to "make the numbers" for a quarter....so strictly comparing residual values may be misleading. Given the software intensity of any new P/F/MB, etc., I wouldn't want to be the owner of any of these cars after the first 2 yrs or so of use....and certainly not when the warranty period is near over....perhaps we should view the lower resale values of almost all new cars as a modern-day cost of ownership. But let's not forget that today's new car prices are almost downright free vs prices of similar new cars (w/dismal relative performance capabilities) in late '80s and early '90s....and interest rates/car lease terms were not notably attractive back then....I suspect we're all enjoying much greater performance from our new cars per dollar of ownership cost today, despite any declines in resale value.
Re: How much will we lose a year?
With UK dealers quoting 6 to 12 month wait for new 997's, the 997 will hold its value well in the UK. The UK market is saturated with new cars and most cars over the Pounds50 bracker drop heavily in the first year - the new 6 Series is showing signs of these with nearly new cars being offered at over 12% less than new.
As per Robbo's view, I am confident that the UK prices for the 997 will be strong for at least the first 12 months. The Sunday Times Driving section is the benchmark to use in reviewing used car prices in the UK - you will note that there aren't any cars for sale second hand below list.
I intend to keep my 997S for about 10 months and hope to move to a C4S - I am planning on loosing a maximum of Pounds3k in 10 months - 4.3% - not bad for a car that costs cPounds70k in the UK.
Rgds
Prashan
As per Robbo's view, I am confident that the UK prices for the 997 will be strong for at least the first 12 months. The Sunday Times Driving section is the benchmark to use in reviewing used car prices in the UK - you will note that there aren't any cars for sale second hand below list.
I intend to keep my 997S for about 10 months and hope to move to a C4S - I am planning on loosing a maximum of Pounds3k in 10 months - 4.3% - not bad for a car that costs cPounds70k in the UK.
Rgds
Prashan
Re: How much will we lose a year?
I agree with Prashan and Robbo's views, in the UK the 997 will have a small depreciation within the first 18 months, Its common practise to roll over the depreciation by buying a new PO every 1.5 to 2 years. This helps with the 2 year warranty issue and works well with PO finance which simplifies the renewal.
IMO Its seems that 997's are easier to source in the USA, remember here in the UK we have at the least a 6 month + wait.
997's represent reasonable value here in the UK when compared with other performance cars which have similar sports car credentials, although PO in the US are relatively expensive when taking into consideration the incredible value of American cars.
Certainly big contributors to the higher depreciation
Re: How much will we lose a year?
Quote:
Prashan said:
With UK dealers quoting 6 to 12 month wait for new 997's, the 997 will hold its value well in the UK. The UK market is saturated with new cars and most cars over the Pounds50 bracker drop heavily in the first year - the new 6 Series is showing signs of these with nearly new cars being offered at over 12% less than new.
As per Robbo's view, I am confident that the UK prices for the 997 will be strong for at least the first 12 months. The Sunday Times Driving section is the benchmark to use in reviewing used car prices in the UK - you will note that there aren't any cars for sale second hand below list.
I intend to keep my 997S for about 10 months and hope to move to a C4S - I am planning on loosing a maximum of Pounds3k in 10 months - 4.3% - not bad for a car that costs cPounds70k in the UK.
Rgds
Prashan
Can I assume then that you will be selling it privately? You certainly won't get that trading it in to an OPC for the C4S. I agree with the general thrust though, the residuals are pretty safe for the first 2 years. After that if the volumes are anywhere near the 996, then there will be substantail drops.
Re: How much will we lose a year?
If you're in it for the long term be patient and wait a couple years as I am. Delayed gratification is tough. I intend to get an equity loan and spread my payments out as far as possible.
See Finance 101 Opportunity Cost. Make you're money and time work for you. Maybe people here don't worry about using leverage. I've leased my wifes passat for 4 years, then got a loan for 4 more. You pay the same amout if you were to finance a purchase over 5 years. You lower your monthly and enables me to max out 401k's, 529's etc.
Makes no sense to pay cash for cars or pay your mortgage in 15 years..unless of course you can do so and not blink..twice.
See Finance 101 Opportunity Cost. Make you're money and time work for you. Maybe people here don't worry about using leverage. I've leased my wifes passat for 4 years, then got a loan for 4 more. You pay the same amout if you were to finance a purchase over 5 years. You lower your monthly and enables me to max out 401k's, 529's etc.
Makes no sense to pay cash for cars or pay your mortgage in 15 years..unless of course you can do so and not blink..twice.
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