I like the look of the car (very good choice) but not your engine choice (but you knew that before ). However, in your case, the engine choice may actually make sense.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
ISUK:I do cut the lawn as it happens. It's a good brisk walk for 90 minutes or so
Get one of those sit on mowers, bud. Sure Porsche may well do one in the near future. ..
Beautiful house, very well done ....
throt
"I Have Done It!".
991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.
Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.
I had the opportunity to take the new Panamera 4 E-hybrid for a test drive earlier this week. My god, what have Porsche done? To be honest I don't understand how even Porsche decided to let this product out on the market in this condition. The integration of the e-motor hanging on the gearbox (for getting 4wd in e-mode) makes the driving on pure e-drive a bit strange having to change gears up/down even in electric mode. The car feels massively underpowered in e-mode and the smallest of extra push on the accelerator wakes the petrol engine alive. And it does so with hesitation, the drivetrian feels strained by hunting for the right gear, uncertainties about the right rpm-range, jerkiness, turning petrol-motor on/off in weird situations and so on. I tested the car in all sorts of conditions and in all the different driving modes (e-mode, Sport, Sport Plus). Even in Sport Plus where the petrol engine should use the e-performance at it's peak and deliver the full potential of the car it just felt very far from a refined product. I did some launches fro stand-still, take over of lorries on 70km/h roads etc, and it all felt very weird...
I remember Gernot Döllner, leading the Panamera development, express in interviews back when the Panamera 4 e-hybrid was announced, that the e-Hybrid is the "Performance pack of the future". This is hilarious to think back of this statement after having tested the car he's talking about.
I really hope that Porsche have empolyeed a lot of good engineers for the Mission-E project, because this hybrid e-performance is just a big joke. Big question mark for the Turbo S with the same "E-performance package" and also that Porsche have plans to put this package in the new Cayenne. To me this just shows that Porsche with it's current hybrids don't know anything about electric drivetrains and hav lot's to learn. I can't for my life think that anyone inside Porsche is proud of this development.
To me this testdrive just did confirm that Hybrids are just not the way forward. Either go for full electric or stick with a petrol car.
The e-hybrid is more of a marketing thing in my opinion.
Full electric is coming, hybrids will be more for the sports cars in a way or another.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
noone1:But Porsche engineering can do no wrong, right? LOL.
Who said that? e-Hybrid is pure marketing in my opinion.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
RC:noone1:But Porsche engineering can do no wrong, right? LOL.
Who said that? e-Hybrid is pure marketing in my opinion.
It work great in the 918. Just saying.
Packaging is the problem. For front engine cars, integrating the e-motor into the transmission is the only sensible thing to do, but that's also sized limited, under 200hp output max.
The other problem is also the small engine in the regular e-Hybrid, why neuter a performance car with a punty V6?
The Panamera Turbo S has power all over the rev range, that hybrid system just adds to the snappy-ness of the throttle response. Proper way to do a performance car. The hybrid system is there for low emission circumstances like entering city centre in london, or stuck in traffic in the city.
Best of both world in the Turbo S, the high end of a gas engine car together with the low end punch of a electric.
Jul 6, 2017 5:17:36 PM
X2
there are two types of hybrids, the tree hugger fuel efficient marketing ones were a small petrol engine is used to support a hybrid system is stupid (cayenne or Panera hybrid), but the performance oriented petrol engine with a hybrid to enhance performance further is another (ie Panera turbo S or 918), apples and oranges.
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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS
Jul 6, 2017 6:11:14 PM
Carlos from Spain:X2
there are two types of hybrids, the tree hugger fuel efficient marketing ones were a small petrol engine is used to support a hybrid system is stupid (cayenne or Panera hybrid), but the performance oriented petrol engine with a hybrid to enhance performance further is another (ie Panera turbo S or 918), apples and oranges.
Agree that there are hybrids for treehuggers and really boring cars out there that probably never will appeal to someone interested in cars.
But to my knowledge the comparison between 4 e-hybrid and Turbo S e-hybrid is not that far fetched. It is the exact same technical setup, same size e-motor and same integration, etc. The difference is a v8 vs a v6. My main concern with the 4 e-hybrid that I test drove was the integration between the two technologies. It was laggy, hesitant and it seemed like the two didn't want to cooperate in a way that I expected. I really went in for that test drive to just confirm that Porsche cracked the e-hybrid integration, but they sadly just have not. Curious to understand why the same integration will be much different with the Turbo S in that respect? Yes, v8 with 550hp instead of v6 330hp, but it was not the amount of power that was lacking, it was the integration that was neither smooth or refined and the PDK-box was very unresponsive and slow in all driving mo.
The car I tested had rear axel steering, but didn't feel as "nimble" as I remember the 4S and Turbo when I tested those a couple of months back. It weigh in at 2410kg (real weight with options including 21" wheels etc). Of course 300kg can't be hidden. Try adding 300kg of ballast in the trunk on any car and there will be a huge difference in the corners. And even if Porsche engineers are good at tweaking chassis, they can't defy physics... And also... when taking longer commutes on fuel only the hybrid does actually consumer more fuel than one without
Feeling of the e-hybrid can be compare with huge turbo lag when the e-motor try to interconnect with the petrol engine back and forth. The "ketchup effect" is back. Just imagine.... Yeah, I want to overtake that lorry now when i'm calm commuting in e-mode in 80km/h. Push full throttle..... nothing happens.... nothing happens... nothing happens... baaam petrol engine kicks in... lag... lag... motor spool up... trying to find right RPM... ... and then suddenly a few seconds later we're off to pass that lorry. Nice, huh? Of course it is better when in Sport Plus, but then the rpm's are all too high if not driving in manual mode and using paddles to shift.
I'm sure we will hear more of this when others have tested the e-hybrid. They started to arrive at dealerships and customers taking delivery just 1-2 weeks ago after all the delays...
Outside of the "Sports" hybrid where electric power is used to smooth a (probably turbo'ed) powerband I still think the best hybrid would be a 100% electric propulsion (ideally an electric engine for each wheel) and a super efficient ICE engine running as a generator to fill up the battery. Think of the traction benefits etc. If you had a modular suspension/wheel/e-engine that allowed four wheel steering, independent power delivery etc... all powered by a massive battery what was getting constantly recharged by a small hyper efficient ICE engine....
Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region
Whoopsy:RC:noone1:But Porsche engineering can do no wrong, right? LOL.
Who said that? e-Hybrid is pure marketing in my opinion.
It work great in the 918. Just saying.
I wasn't referring to the 918 but even with the 918, let's be real here: Just imagine a 918 without hybrid, same power (doable with the right engine choice and setup) and 200 kg less weight.
Packaging is the problem. For front engine cars, integrating the e-motor into the transmission is the only sensible thing to do, but that's also sized limited, under 200hp output max.
The other problem is also the small engine in the regular e-Hybrid, why neuter a performance car with a punty V6?
The Panamera Turbo S has power all over the rev range, that hybrid system just adds to the snappy-ness of the throttle response. Proper way to do a performance car. The hybrid system is there for low emission circumstances like entering city centre in london, or stuck in traffic in the city.
I just wish Porsche could have taken care of that excessive weight increase. The performance gain over the Turbo is basically eaten away by the increased weight.
Best of both world in the Turbo S, the high end of a gas engine car together with the low end punch of a electric.
True but the weight makes this car a whale.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)