Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S - Page1

Jan 7, 2005 4:29:16 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004

Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

I can wait six months and get an S or I can get a non-S with "all" the options I want in "about a week." (according to dealer)

Now that the excitement with the new models introduction has died down a bit, what would you "S" guys thing about getting a non-S. What do you non-S guys think about getting an S?

I'm a boarderline perfectionist, kinda want the S, but fairly adaptable to other sensible people's reality-checks.

Sorry if this question seems tedious. Thanks, I did see the "Save $6K" comp article.

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Jan 7, 2005 5:02:19 PM

jboyko: Co-Pilot; Loc: NEWARK, NJ; Posts: 168, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 5, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Get the 997, buy and attach the rear hood "S", and the "S" door scuff panels. No one should notice the exhaust pipes, and if you are really ambitious, remove all of the hardware from your red calipers, and I'll Powder coat them yellow for you at no charge. You're on your own with the "PORSCHE" silk screening on the calipers though.

You probably are not going to use 95% of an "S" as a daily driver. But, the extra HP for the other 5% is a real hoot.

jb

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Jan 7, 2005 5:07:01 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: jboyko

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

I don't believe anyone buys the 997S for either the quad pipe or the "S" badge or even the 19" wheels. The differences are deeper than the looks, such as HP and performance and.....

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Jan 7, 2005 5:12:06 PM

Trundle_GT3: Veteran; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 1016, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

If you kinda want the "S", if you don't get one, you will always wish that you had.

What kind of optioning were you thinking about?

Be wary of dealer speak!

Become a waiter, order up what you want

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Jan 7, 2005 5:22:21 PM

JasonF: Junior; Loc: New Jersey; Posts: 114, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 13, 2004; Reply to: Trundle_GT3

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

First commandment: get what you REALLY want, or you will never be satisfied and will constantly question whether you made the right decision.

Personally, I opted for the regular 997. Due to engine break-in, I haven't opened the car up yet, but I can already tell that the power will be more than adequate for the type of driving I do. You may feel differently, but if the car is going to be garaged in NYC, most of the time you wouldn't be able to use the full power of a Honda Civic in city driving.

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Jan 7, 2005 5:25:49 PM

PS CA: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

There is a $9800 difference between an S and non-S. For that $9800 you get 30HP, larger brakes, Bi-Xenon headlights ($1090), PASM ($1990), 19" wheels ($1550). To purchase the "tuned engine" option for the 996 (which increased HP from 320 to 345) cost $13990. I don't know what the larger brakes cost, but I assume they would be $500+ if you could purchase them. So, in theory, you get $19120 worth of extras for $9800. That is a relative bargain. I would suspect this will help the resale value of the S verses the non-S. This asssumes you have to pay list for both cars. If you can get a deal on a non-S and no deal on a S then that could change things.

Phil

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Jan 7, 2005 6:35:51 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21148, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: PS CA

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

MMD,
If you had decided already for the 997"S" and then get the 997 for a question of waiting 6 months, then you will start to regret it 6 months from know through the whole ownership of the car. It will always be bugging you. I'd rather regret just until summer time for not driving a 997 until then and then take delivery of the 997S.

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Jan 7, 2005 6:41:11 PM

poursha: Pilot; Loc: San Francisco Bay area; Posts: 479, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 5, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Quote:
MMD said:
I'm a boarderline perfectionist, kinda want the S, but fairly adaptable to other sensible people's reality-checks.

Seems you've answered your own question!! Wait for the car you really want. 6 months will come and go before you know--if you compromise, you'll second guess yourself as long as you own the car.

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Jan 7, 2005 7:23:50 PM

Holminator: Veteran; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 1041, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: poursha

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Get the 997 with Sport Chrono, PASM, and 19-in wheels. Nearly the same level of performance as the S and you get $10000 in your pocket for options or a multiple vacations to Europe and Asia unless a 0.2 second difference in acceleration from 0-60 mph is worth 10 grand to you. I drove both the 997 (Chrono/PASM/19) and 997S and was hard pressed to tell the difference in acceleration, rigidity, suspension, braking, and mid-range torque. Of course, without the S you're gonna miss out on that self-adjusting clutch.

"You will know what to do."

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Jan 7, 2005 7:39:49 PM

PS CA: Veteran; Loc: California , United States; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: Holminator

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Quote:
Holminator said:
Get the 997 with Sport Chrono, PASM, and 19-in wheels. Nearly the same level of performance as the S and you get $10000 in your pocket for options

Not to nit pic, but if he buys a 997 with PASM and 19 inch wheels he will only save $6260 from the S. And he still won't have turbo brakes, Bi-Xenon lights and a 3.8 liter engine with 355HP. The S option is a relative bargain for what you get. If you aren't interested in extras the S package gives you then the standard Carrera is the way to go. And there may be some deals available on non-S models (plus the availability factor).

Phil

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Jan 7, 2005 7:50:17 PM

Holminator: Veteran; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 1041, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: PS CA

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Quote:
PS CA said:
Quote:
Holminator said:
Get the 997 with Sport Chrono, PASM, and 19-in wheels. Nearly the same level of performance as the S and you get $10000 in your pocket for options

Not to nit pic, but if he buys a 997 with PASM and 19 inch wheels he will only save $6260 from the S. And he still won't have turbo brakes, Bi-Xenon lights and a 3.8 liter engine with 355HP. The S option is a relative bargain for what you get. If you aren't interested in extras the S package gives you then the standard Carrera is the way to go. And there may be some deals available on non-S models (plus the availability factor).

Phil

OKAY. OKAY. Only $6000!

Nichts Asia and only go to Europe.

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Jan 7, 2005 8:00:59 PM

Barrett: Junior; Loc: Houston, Texas; Posts: 84, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 14, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

MMD,

Here's one way to think about it: while it would be fun to pick up the 997 next week and get to enjoy that car for the next five months and three weeks, what happens upon the sixth month? When that sixth month rolls around, any advantage gained by getting the 997 is immediately gone, and then the disadvantage of not waiting kicks in. So, basically, the benefits of the 997 last 5.75 months, while the benefits of the 997S last for years (or maybe even a lifetime). Wait for the car you want.

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Jan 7, 2005 8:37:21 PM

John MDF OR: Newbie; Loc: or; Posts: 49, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 21, 2004; Reply to: Barrett

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Wait and get what you want!! Half the fun is the anticipation!!!!

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Jan 7, 2005 9:10:24 PM

Sydney: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 73, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Wait for the S. Winter in the NE is a mess, and your car (especially since you are a perfectionist) will either sit in the garage, or get mucked up on the streets. Also, I will bet you have lots of S choices over the next 6 months anyway, and your options/color ideas may change.

Always stretch for the best, IMHO...

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Jan 8, 2005 3:27:11 AM

swisstrader: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 55, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 29, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

I don't buy into all the hype around the "S" vs driving the "standard" coupe. This goes doubly so for those of us who live in the likes of northern NJ and NYC, where you don't exactly "open it up" on a daily basis. This car is plenty powerful as the standard coupe. Save your money, get one now and start to enjoy. As an aside, the average joe cannot tell the difference between an "S" and a non S.

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Jan 8, 2005 3:28:21 AM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: Sydney

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Wait for the S, hell it's only 6 mo and it's winter for craps sake. If your willing to accept a plain 997, consider a new, loaded C4S, hell of a car, will blow by a plain 997 all day long.JMO
BTW, I open mine up everyday, it wants it, it needs it.
Good to see you on the board swisstrader

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Jan 8, 2005 3:40:47 AM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Quote:
C4S Surgeon said:
Wait for the S, hell it's only 6 mo and it's winter for craps sake. If your willing to accept a plain 997, consider a new, loaded C4S, hell of a car, will blow by a plain 997 all day long.JMO
BTW, I open mine up everyday, it wants it, it needs it.
Good to see you on the board swisstrader

I would be willing to bet that a standard 997 would blow a C4S any day of the week.

In fact how would a considerably slower and heavier car beat the 997?

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Jan 8, 2005 4:04:16 AM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

First off, it's only 281# heavier, betterlooks, better brakes,cooling,suspension,awd,same engine, the C4S also runs' the ring' faster than any c2996. I track my car regularly and have never been passed in my run group by any plain 997. The last outing at watkins glen, there were two 997 cars, 1 tip/1 6spd, neither one could keep up with me, esp in the turns.
That's just my personal experience, until I get lapped by a 997 I'll stand by my guns. The S is a different story, I was spanked by one badly.
Have a nice weekend guys!

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Jan 8, 2005 4:18:05 AM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Quote:
C4S Surgeon said:
First off, it's only 281# heavier, betterlooks, better brakes,cooling,suspension,awd,same engine, the C4S also runs' the ring' faster than any c2996. I track my car regularly and have never been passed in my run group by any plain 997. The last outing at watkins glen, there were two 997 cars, 1 tip/1 6spd, neither one could keep up with me, esp in the turns.
That's just my personal experience, until I get lapped by a 997 I'll stand by my guns.
Have a nice weekend guys!

Because it is heavier, it needs the bigger brakes and cooling. The suspension is new on the 997 where on the C4S it an old design. Looks, I vote for the 997 or 997S. AWD? only good in the snow. Same engine, nope, at least 5 more hp on the 997 and it has a better transmission and remember the 997 is a lighter car. The tip guy was probably out for a Sunday drive and the 6sp probably his first time tracking the car.

I remember the last time I was on the track with my little 914. Had a Gulf-Porsche 917 behind me. He never lapped me but I knew he was definitely faster than me.

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Jan 8, 2005 5:07:34 AM

tooner: Veteran; Loc: SF-Bay Area; Posts: 832, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 8, 2005; Reply to: PS CA

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Dollars and Cents...? Do we really buy these cars because there's bang for the buck? If that were the case then saving 10k would be a lot...

I personally was compelled to purchase the car because I wanted to have what the car can deliver... 355 horses, top of the line handling, and a driving experience that makes me want to go at it again and again... six months or 10k should not be reason to take anything less than what you want.

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Jan 8, 2005 8:37:12 AM

03-turbo911: Pilot; Loc: Bahrain; Posts: 337, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2004; Reply to: tooner

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

If you're not going to regret not waiting, then go for it. But if you are, wait the six months and get the car that you've wanted. One advantage is that it would, probably, be an '06 model.

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Jan 8, 2005 9:03:37 AM

JohnA: Co-Pilot; Loc: Durham, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 264, Gallery; Registered on: May 13, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Get the S, look at the string "Major dealer cock up" which is current alongside, you can feel the relief of senator in getting the car he really wants after a mistake by the dealer, get the car you really want and since you would have either you really want the S or you would not consider paying the extra.

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Jan 8, 2005 2:44:33 PM

jo996: Newbie; Loc: Germany, Cologne; Posts: 10, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 11, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Wait for the S!

I have experienced it several times with former cars. If you don't get what you REALLY want you will feel somehow disappointed every time you see an other S.
No compromises with cars (as far as money reaches).

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Jan 8, 2005 4:15:24 PM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Quote:
C4S Surgeon said:
...I track my car regularly and have never been passed in my run group by any plain 997...

It could also be that you are just a better driver than the 997 drivers.

For example, you are on the track with a 996 turbo and the best factory driver has a plain 997. Who would win? Even though you are probably a good driver, the factory driver would probably win. If a 997 owner was serious about tracking (a car that is a daily driver; not one only for track use), he would have gotten a 997S.

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Jan 9, 2005 2:47:29 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Wow, you guys are all right. Yeah, from such a great panorama of reasoning it does make sense to wait and get what you want. Yep, that's what I'll do. I'll order the S and hang out here trying to contribute something as waiter for six months. I really appreciate your help in sorting thru all these issues.

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Jan 9, 2005 4:35:53 AM

DavidSF: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 525, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Quote:
MMD said:
I can wait six months and get an S or I can get a non-S with "all" the options I want in "about a week." (according to dealer)

Now that the excitement with the new models introduction has died down a bit, what would you "S" guys thing about getting a non-S. What do you non-S guys think about getting an S?

I'm a boarderline perfectionist, kinda want the S, but fairly adaptable to other sensible people's reality-checks.

Sorry if this question seems tedious. Thanks, I did see the "Save $6K" comp article.

If you want an objective answer look at objective data and don't ask for peoples' opinions which are subjective. I took this approach when trying to decide between the Boxster and Boxster S. Yes, the Boxster S has a little bit more HP but it also weighs more. The question I had to ask myself back then was could the extra 30HP in the S make any difference considering it weighs more than the base? I concluded it couldn't, despite the subjective opinions from S owners that there's a big difference between the S and base. It's just not physically possible, if you think about it. The only benefit of the S I could really see were the brakes but since the brakes of the base model were super to begin with I didn't think I need the better S brakes.

Again, if you want to be objective, look at objective data. It's all there provided by Porsche. And don't forget to consider weight, which is often over looked in favor of HP.

One other point, the 0 - 60 times you see in magazines are not objective. There are many variables in these times, including driver, temperature, tires, etc... Note that the times vary all over the place depending on the magazine.

David

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Jan 9, 2005 6:21:56 AM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: Try to be objective: 997 vs. 997S

Quote:
vtrader said:
Quote:
C4S Surgeon said:
...I track my car regularly and have never been passed in my run group by any plain 997...

It could also be that you are just a better driver than the 997 drivers.

For example, you are on the track with a 996 turbo and the best factory driver has a plain 997. Who would win? Even though you are probably a good driver, the factory driver would probably win. If a 997 owner was serious about tracking (a car that is a daily driver; not one only for track use), he would have gotten a 997S.

If you want an S, don't settle for a plain car, you'll always regret it.
VT, as far as my track experiences go, I usually run in the intermediate or advanced run groups, all the guys have about the same ability. I will agree with you on one point though, anybody that truely loves tracking these cars would get the S.
I actually like the S model alot, just don't get all that worked up about the plain 997. To each his own.

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