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Board: Porsche - Boxster
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Dec 30, 2004 9:55:45 AM
- Martin Tyler
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- Loc: London, UK
- Posts: 230, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 25, 2003
- Reply to: ELUSIVE
Re: Boxster design...
Quote:
yarub1 said:
Yes.
I was greatly disapointed by the "new" Boxster. Porsche missed a great opportunity to advance on the design of the Boxster.
Porsche don't do "radical" for their mainstream cars. Never have done. That they leave to others that need to convince their clients that prefer show to go.
Re: Boxster design...
Most Porsche fanatics would at any given time refer to the evolution versus revolution. Personally, and this is without looking at the strategy for Porsche, I would have loved to see a Boxster with a more dramatic design. Maybe somewhat as a design part of the porsche family. Take a look at the Boxster when it was presented back in the 90's, a huge scoop and instant interest from all over.
With regards to the picture you have attached I would say that it shows some good ideas but there are to many "stolen" details from the CGT. I am sure that the Porsche designer, if given a bit more freedom could have made a more interesting look for the 987 than what is the case.
And then again the look of the 987 will most likely ensure that reselling price of my 986 is kept high.
Happy new year to all RENNTEAM users and looking forward to 2005.
Thomas
With regards to the picture you have attached I would say that it shows some good ideas but there are to many "stolen" details from the CGT. I am sure that the Porsche designer, if given a bit more freedom could have made a more interesting look for the 987 than what is the case.
And then again the look of the 987 will most likely ensure that reselling price of my 986 is kept high.
Happy new year to all RENNTEAM users and looking forward to 2005.
Thomas
Re: Boxster design...
I am sorry dreamcar but I dont agree with you. Porsche did a radical move when it introduced the Boxster. It was fresh from every point of view. It brought new people into Porsche world for the first time, including myself. Another radical move is the CGT and Porsche failed to capitalise on its very successful design. Sooner or later they will be forced to make some very radical decisions from a design point of view, just like MB & BMW. I just hope they make that decision before its too late.
Its just my opinion and you have every right not to agree with it.
One more thing, happy new year to all of you
Its just my opinion and you have every right not to agree with it.
One more thing, happy new year to all of you
Re: Boxster design...
Quote:
yarub1 said:
I am sorry dreamcar but I dont agree with you. Porsche did a radical move when it introduced the Boxster. It was fresh from every point of view. It brought new people into Porsche world for the first time, including myself. Another radical move is the CGT and Porsche failed to capitalise on its very successful design. Sooner or later they will be forced to make some very radical decisions from a design point of view, just like MB & BMW. I just hope they make that decision before its too late.
Its just my opinion and you have every right not to agree with it.
One more thing, happy new year to all of you
Not many people do agree with me - but I can live with that. But - if the new Porsche cars were radically different from the cars they replace one of the biggest advantages of owning a Porsche would surely disappear - rock solid residual values. Also if you drive a fast expensive car it is not always beneficial to over-advertise the fact. How a car is engineered and drives is more important to me. Otherwise I would probably drive a TVR.
A happy, safe and prosperous New Year to you, as well.
Re: Boxster design...
I agree with dreamcar. I have owned 3 Porsches and the residual value is incredible compared to other brands, evolution vs. revolution has the great benefit of always improving cars but not making previous models look "old." Look at BMW or MB, old cars look old, yes the SLK has some interesting lines but it makes the previous SLK look old same with SL, not to mention BMWs.
Happy new year to all.
A
Happy new year to all.
A
Re: Boxster design...
Quote:
senra said:
I agree with dreamcar. I have owned 3 Porsches and the residual value is incredible compared to other brands, evolution vs. revolution has the great benefit of always improving cars but not making previous models look "old." Look at BMW or MB, old cars look old, yes the SLK has some interesting lines but it makes the previous SLK look old same with SL, not to mention BMWs.
Happy new year to all.
A
Senra,
I totaly agree with you that the residual value of Porsches is very good. I believe that it's mainly due to their exclusivity and nothing more. But I also believe that their is a real danger that people will get bored of the same old design, which at the end might lead customers to desert to other brand with more daring designs. Less people purchasing second hand Porsches mean more cars available on the market, which will lead at the end to a decline in the residual value. Please correct me if you think that my logic is flawed.
Dreamcar,
You must understand that I am not questioning the capability of Porsche to produce superior driving cars, I am a good example. I purshased my Boxster because of its looks and the moment I drove the car I became a Porsche believer
. My worries is that in the world of sports cars where the design is very important, Porsche might suddenly turn into yesterday's design and people might move to other brands with more "fashionable" designs, like Aston Martin for example. Oh by the way, I love TVR's, specialy the Tamora
.
Re: Boxster design...
Quote:
yarub1 said:
Dreamcar,
You must understand that I am not questioning the capability of Porsche to produce superior driving cars, I am a good example. I purshased my Boxster because of its looks and the moment I drove the car I became a Porsche believer
Oh by the way, I love TVR's, specialy the Tamora
But don't forget that the items that follow the latest fashions are ironically the first items that go out of fashion when the trends change. I would suggest that the SLK and Z4 will look old hat a lot quicker than the Boxster.
Re: Boxster design...
Yarub1,
I think your logic makes sense and I think what you describe might be hapenning to an extent. If someone just bought a Boxster because of the looks with no consideration to performance or brand, this buyer might be more entice by other more dramatically "new" designs.
However, where I think you are wrong is in that by following evolution instead of revolution in design, older models i.e. 986 do not look "old," and consequently if you are a second hand buyer, you will be more inclined to purchase a second hand 986 because it is not dramatically differnet from a 987, same applies to 996 and 997.
All companies and products follow certain cycles, I think after Porsche's sucess in the last few years, sales in some products as well as re-sale values in previous models are probably going to decline more than average because the sales boom was more than the average growth trend. Just my opinion and hope I am wrong
I think your logic makes sense and I think what you describe might be hapenning to an extent. If someone just bought a Boxster because of the looks with no consideration to performance or brand, this buyer might be more entice by other more dramatically "new" designs.
However, where I think you are wrong is in that by following evolution instead of revolution in design, older models i.e. 986 do not look "old," and consequently if you are a second hand buyer, you will be more inclined to purchase a second hand 986 because it is not dramatically differnet from a 987, same applies to 996 and 997.
All companies and products follow certain cycles, I think after Porsche's sucess in the last few years, sales in some products as well as re-sale values in previous models are probably going to decline more than average because the sales boom was more than the average growth trend. Just my opinion and hope I am wrong
Re: Boxster design...
I wasn't sure of the new design initially. Then I saw a couple videos and checked out the Porsche website that lets you rotate around the car. From these perspectives I grew to like the car much more and now see still photos of it in a different light. If you don't like it and haven't seen it in person, try getting a feel for it in 3d.
Re: Boxster design...
Quote:
tso said:
Most Porsche fanatics would at any given time refer to the evolution versus revolution.
And then again the look of the 987 will most likely ensure that reselling price of my 986 is kept high.
Thomas
I think Thomas' comment hit the spot.
Look at what Toyota, BMW and others are doing to their design.
I dont mention Toyota because the brand vales are the same as Porsche, but because they are very different from Porsche.
Many japanese car manufacturers do not have any significant heritage, I believe customer loyalty is also a problem to most off these companies, and therefore they simply HAVE to come up with some new never-seen-before design every single year- to keep the customers' interest.
Of course this is a catch 22, because the more often you change appearence the harder it gets to get any visual continuity and identity...hence less familiarity, heritage and ultimately security for the consumer.
These companies simply have to create "deal loyalty" instead of "real loyalty".
They have to "buy" most new and in many cases also existing clients with new, innovative design and a remake of the whole brand to keep their attention. This is a very expensive way to market a product.
What Porsche does is from a branding/marketing POV perfectly sound and sensible.
We will never see radical design changes on any of the current models, but every once in a whilee they will introduce a new model to keep our attention and get the PR mill going. And of course to keep Porsche moving forward.
The real challenge for Porsche is launching the right model at the right time - and staying true to both their brand value and their core audience.
trouble now is - they seem to be a bit torn between the die-hard Porsche addicts and the not so die-hard newcomers whose introduction to the Porsche brand is a Cayenne. A car model that by all standards is far from Porsches original raison d'etre.
Personally, I believe Porsche should do what Toyota did with Lexus.
Create a parallel or sub brand, that could fathom SUV's, sedans and other non-sportscar models.
This wouldd be a "powered by Porsche" brand that builds on the solid Porsche virtues, but would not water down the sportscar image that Porsche has had for decades.
The Cayenne is -Im sure- a teriffic car, but next to a "real" Porsche it's simply another Disco Jeep trying to be both sporty and off road.
Porsches trademark has always been one thing; Creating great SPORTScars.
This is a sportscar brand- like it or not.
Ask a child or ask your grandmother- seriously.
They will all say "smart, fast sportscar". Not "nice looking, german SUV" or "solid, innovative engineering".
Most major brands'downfall has been that they change their core business or change their number one reason for being.
Look at Coca-Cola, Lego, Kodak and others.
If you're committed to building sports cars - build sportscars!
You cannot suddenly go from being a sportscar company to being a "we sell everything" car company. At least not without losing credibility.
Re: Boxster design...
Quote:
DrPhil said:
Most major brands'downfall has been that they change their core business or change their number one reason for being.
Look at Coca-Cola, Lego, Kodak and others.
You lost me here
One is a brand that continues to be the No.1 in its particular market (soda drinks), while the other (kodak) is almost dead, because they failed to change with the times.
Porsche may be equivalent to CocaCola, but it sure isn't Kodak, they are quite successful at riding the wave of market changes
Re: Boxster design...
Coca Cola had serious problems a couple of years ago.
They had to cut back 20% of their staff to meet shareholders' expectations.
It was a mix of financial technicalities and the fact that they kept creating line extentions of their core brand, the Red Coke.
They did thsi because of radical change in drinking habits among their core target group. people were less brand-aware and started buying discount softdrinks instead.
Instead of sticking to their core brand (and values) they panicked and started off doing all sorts of strange promotions and line extensions (creating new products based on existing ones).
I know this first hand, cause I used to work on their branding.
Kodak's problem was much simpler.
They made the mistake of assuming, that because they were an authority on paper photos, they would automatically become an authority in the digital imaging field as well. WRONG! They actually crated hundreds of digital imaging stores, only to realize that virtually nobody would trust Kodak with their digital film.
My point is: The absolute most important element of succesful branding or marketing, is knowing your product's strengths (and weaknesses), and staying true to them over time. If you dont know who you are...how can you expect your customers to?
They had to cut back 20% of their staff to meet shareholders' expectations.
It was a mix of financial technicalities and the fact that they kept creating line extentions of their core brand, the Red Coke.
They did thsi because of radical change in drinking habits among their core target group. people were less brand-aware and started buying discount softdrinks instead.
Instead of sticking to their core brand (and values) they panicked and started off doing all sorts of strange promotions and line extensions (creating new products based on existing ones).
I know this first hand, cause I used to work on their branding.
Kodak's problem was much simpler.
They made the mistake of assuming, that because they were an authority on paper photos, they would automatically become an authority in the digital imaging field as well. WRONG! They actually crated hundreds of digital imaging stores, only to realize that virtually nobody would trust Kodak with their digital film.
My point is: The absolute most important element of succesful branding or marketing, is knowing your product's strengths (and weaknesses), and staying true to them over time. If you dont know who you are...how can you expect your customers to?
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