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Dec 22, 2004 4:28:56 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
997 doesn't have PASM nor 19" wheels/tires like the 987S and in hockenheim that is very important and with a very similar power to weight, the 987S should be consistently faster in track such as Hockenheim IMO.
But 997S is a nother matter, the 997S (PASM) 1,15.5 lap time was done under abnormally high temp, and SportAuto claimed that in normal conditions it could have been in the 1,14's.
The unconfirmed (yet) lap time of the 997S (-20mm) by SportAuto is 1,14 flat, which in hockenheim is a huge gap now to the 987S given the advantage of the superior engine and especially suspensions.
So in the end exellent results by both the 997 and 987 IMO if we compare to other sportcars of the same range and even above, and just shows how good these cars can handle. When push comes to shove they deliver
But 997S is a nother matter, the 997S (PASM) 1,15.5 lap time was done under abnormally high temp, and SportAuto claimed that in normal conditions it could have been in the 1,14's.
The unconfirmed (yet) lap time of the 997S (-20mm) by SportAuto is 1,14 flat, which in hockenheim is a huge gap now to the 987S given the advantage of the superior engine and especially suspensions.
So in the end exellent results by both the 997 and 987 IMO if we compare to other sportcars of the same range and even above, and just shows how good these cars can handle. When push comes to shove they deliver
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Quote:
Zürich said:
The lap-times in Hockenheim are (all cars with PASM and 19' Michelins):
997 : 1,15.9 sec
987 S: 1,15.7 sec
997 S: 1,15.5 sec
What do they experts think?
Zürich
Just to confirm the times since here in the US we write time differently,
997 : 1 minute 15.9 seconds
987S: 1 minute 15.7 seconds
997S: 1 minute 15.5 seconds
Right?
If every other aspect is the same (same tires, wheels...) which car would be faster? A PASM or non-PASM car?
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Quote:
vtrader said:
[Just to confirm the times since here in the US we write time differently,
997 : 1 minute 15.9 seconds
987S: 1 minute 15.7 seconds
997S: 1 minute 15.5 seconds
Not right.
I try to explain: the 997 Carrera S tested in Hockenheim in summer has been tested under excessive weather conditions, involving unusual high asphalt and air temperatures. I think the air temp was around 36*C and the asphalt temp around 42*C as far as I remember. This is no weather for a good comparison testing because it is a weather we usually don't have in Germany, most cars tested on the Hockenheim Ring have been tested around 15-25 *C.
SPORT AUTO mentioned that in the article and they said that the 997 Carrera S should be capable of under 1 min 15 sec.
This seems to be confirmed by the test done by SPORT AUTO in Hockenheim for the Supertest (which hasn't been published yet because it was too cold to do testing on the Nordschleife) where the 997 Carrera S with 20 mm chassis achieved 1 min 14 sec flat as rumors indicate.
The 997 Carrera (not S!) tested by SPORT AUTO in Hockenheim was in a "pretty good shape" (to use "civilized" words for this). I doubt that customers get a car which offers the same performance like on the "S".
People make a big mistake: they just take test data out of a car magazine and publish it. This is why it is important to read the article which comes with the test too to be able to draw a final conclusion. Unfortunately not all car magazines publish the test conditions and therefore it is difficult to make a fair comparison sometimes.
And of course the Boxster S is a fast car, no doubt about it. With the same power as the 997 Carrera S, it would very likely "beat" it on the track.
Dec 24, 2004 5:46:32 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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Reply to:
RC
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Quote:
RC said:With the same power as the 997 Carrera S, it would very likely "beat" it on the track.
I agree, which brings me the "Boxster Coupe" to mind... with a -20mm equivalent available as option and maybe some extra power, it could give many surprises
or maybe they won't offer the extra power for that very reason on the other hand 
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
How much BHP does the 997s have?
Difference in track conditions are of course important here, but the Boxster is probably the better balanced car of them all. Hence the good time.
It's the old "911 versus Boxster" and "mid-engine versus rear engine" discussion...and I've learned NOT to get involved with that again
Difference in track conditions are of course important here, but the Boxster is probably the better balanced car of them all. Hence the good time.
It's the old "911 versus Boxster" and "mid-engine versus rear engine" discussion...and I've learned NOT to get involved with that again
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Quote:
Thanks, that's a big step forward! Drove the 986S, didn't feel more powerfull than my 260hp S. But I guess the numbers don't lie
Zürich
1.18.3 secs is for the 250hp Boxster S(not 260hp). Furthermore, weather conditions must be similar for accurate comparison.
Jan 19, 2005 10:52:07 PM
- TurboSport
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Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
The 997 for Pounds20 thousand more 0.2 second slower than the 987?
Wow. I also read a test on 987 which questions the wisdom of the 997 since the 987 is so good for the price. This shows that mid-engined cars are the one to go for. Balance. Acceleration on straight line does not mean much on a track.
Wow. I also read a test on 987 which questions the wisdom of the 997 since the 987 is so good for the price. This shows that mid-engined cars are the one to go for. Balance. Acceleration on straight line does not mean much on a track.
Jan 20, 2005 12:00:09 AM
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Dr. Phil
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Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
I doubt it.
Boxster performance is only legendary in the minds of their owners.
With the same track temps, tire wear and air temp the 997
would easily crush it.
The 987 is much slower after 100 than a base 997 is.
Compete them in a Slalom or Ghymkana they might be close, even, better etc.. But real world performance is way different.
Thinking slow? Think Boxster.
Boxster performance is only legendary in the minds of their owners.
With the same track temps, tire wear and air temp the 997
would easily crush it.
The 987 is much slower after 100 than a base 997 is.
Compete them in a Slalom or Ghymkana they might be close, even, better etc.. But real world performance is way different.
Thinking slow? Think Boxster.
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
I doubt it.
Boxster performance is only legendary in the minds of their owners.
With the same track temps, tire wear and air temp the 997
would easily crush it.
The 987 is much slower after 100 than a base 997 is.
Compete them in a Slalom or Ghymkana they might be close, even, better etc.. But real world performance is way different.
Thinking slow? Think Boxster.
Funny how people have a tendency of getting reeeeeeeally defensive and getting into all kinds of long-a55 explanations when things dont go their way, isnt it?
I didnt say 911-owners' penises are short, nor did I attack the performance of the 911.
Just funny how the 997s suddenly isnt faster than the Boxster with a little dust and moist on the track....isnt it? I mean, if the 997s is SOOO much faster.
And in "real life" as you refer to, I believe temperatures and road conditions will change too.
As I understood the test, track conditions were similar, but the temp was higher for the 997. I can see the high temperature will reduce the 997's performance, but if it's SOO much faster normally on a 1,5 minute track lap it shouldnt matter a whole lot, should it?
Joe 6Pack, unless youre a real-world pro driver I dont think youre remotely capable of taking your car to the limits that will set the 911 and Boxster apart on a real-world twisted road. I know I wouldnt.
Take a straight runway and 10 miles, and Im sure you would be able to outrun a 987 in a 997. And good for you.
If you have bought a Porsche...if you do in fact own one...for the 0-100 performance, I think you may be one of the few in here.
To your "Boxster performance is only legendary in the minds of their owners." remark:
Let me just ask you this: Who claimed the Boxster performance is legendary?
I said it's strange that Porsche's top model (the CGT) is built with a midship engine, if the 911 rear engine layout is so fantastic...and isnt it?
"Thinking slow? Think Boxster."
Wow! That's one catchy line you came up with there!
Oh boy, from now on I'll just think "slow" everytime I get into my Boxster.
Man, youre good!!
Lets just end it here:
Your peniz is MUCH longer than mine.
There, happy?
PS: Found out the word P.E.N.I.S. will get automatically censored when you write it. Are you guys kidding me??
Since when is that word "bad language"? What are we supposed to say instead? "Male genitalea". Isnt this american moral cleansing getting outta hand?
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Quote:
DrPhil said:
How much BHP does the 997s have?
Difference in track conditions are of course important here, but the Boxster is probably the better balanced car of them all. Hence the good time.
It's the old "911 versus Boxster" and "mid-engine versus rear engine" discussion...and I've learned NOT to get involved with that again
Especially not on the 997 Board! 
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
If it only takes a little bit of dust or moist on the track for a Boxster S to beat a 997, you can hardly call it a slow car??
What are real life conditions? Accelerating on a straight line on the Autobahn, or having fun on a winding mountain road or track?
Zürich
What are real life conditions? Accelerating on a straight line on the Autobahn, or having fun on a winding mountain road or track?
Zürich
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Is your gas cap screwed on tight?
Dr. Phil, you need to chill, or check into a clinic that can cure celebrity envy and inject you with some charm.
Porsche simply does not bless the Boxster with the same
prodigous accelleration and braking as a 997. Its good,
but not that good relative to a 997.The Boxster is a great sports car,the 997 is just that much faster to be worth more if you value raw speed and can afford it.
As I said, a 987 may turn in great numbers when compared
to a 997 on a short course, but on a long one, good luck.
Its not a question of who has the better car, or the
best shoes, its mechanics and physics. Press your right foot down at 120mph in a Boxster and feel what DOESN'T happen. On the road, to get from point A to point B fast, I prefer a 911 over a Boxster. If that is a political problem for you, too bad.
As for your specious and sophmoric comments about who owns what or who has what driving experience, and your other adolescent keyboard dribblings, you are stomping thru minefields that you create yourself. Achtung Minen, Phil.
Having cumultively driven nearly 300,000 miles in various 914's and one 986 S, and about 600,000 miles more in 911's,80 plus 935 race laps and campaigned a 964 RS America
for two years,I just might have an opinion different from
you when it comes to the Porsche kingdom, and I am sure that others here have more experience than I. So be it. Get over it.
Spare us your lame desultory rhetoric, fractious commentary,and block headed innuendos. You are not one fiftieth as cute or insightful as you think you are.
Dr. Phil, you need to chill, or check into a clinic that can cure celebrity envy and inject you with some charm.
Porsche simply does not bless the Boxster with the same
prodigous accelleration and braking as a 997. Its good,
but not that good relative to a 997.The Boxster is a great sports car,the 997 is just that much faster to be worth more if you value raw speed and can afford it.
As I said, a 987 may turn in great numbers when compared
to a 997 on a short course, but on a long one, good luck.
Its not a question of who has the better car, or the
best shoes, its mechanics and physics. Press your right foot down at 120mph in a Boxster and feel what DOESN'T happen. On the road, to get from point A to point B fast, I prefer a 911 over a Boxster. If that is a political problem for you, too bad.
As for your specious and sophmoric comments about who owns what or who has what driving experience, and your other adolescent keyboard dribblings, you are stomping thru minefields that you create yourself. Achtung Minen, Phil.
Having cumultively driven nearly 300,000 miles in various 914's and one 986 S, and about 600,000 miles more in 911's,80 plus 935 race laps and campaigned a 964 RS America
for two years,I just might have an opinion different from
you when it comes to the Porsche kingdom, and I am sure that others here have more experience than I. So be it. Get over it.
Spare us your lame desultory rhetoric, fractious commentary,and block headed innuendos. You are not one fiftieth as cute or insightful as you think you are.
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Is your gas cap screwed on tight?
Dr. Phil, you need to chill, or check into a clinic that can cure celebrity envy and inject you with some charm.
Porsche simply does not bless the Boxster with the same
prodigous accelleration and braking as a 997. Its good,
but not that good relative to a 997.The Boxster is a great sports car,the 997 is just that much faster to be worth more if you value raw speed and can afford it.
As I said, a 987 may turn in great numbers when compared
to a 997 on a short course, but on a long one, good luck.
Its not a question of who has the better car, or the
best shoes, its mechanics and physics. Press your right foot down at 120mph in a Boxster and feel what DOESN'T happen. On the road, to get from point A to point B fast, I prefer a 911 over a Boxster. If that is a political problem for you, too bad.
As for your specious and sophmoric comments about who owns what or who has what driving experience, and your other adolescent keyboard dribblings, you are stomping thru minefields that you create yourself. Achtung Minen, Phil.
Having cumultively driven nearly 300,000 miles in various 914's and one 986 S, and about 600,000 miles more in 911's,80 plus 935 race laps and campaigned a 964 RS America
for two years,I just might have an opinion different from
you when it comes to the Porsche kingdom, and I am sure that others here have more experience than I. So be it. Get over it.
Spare us your lame desultory rhetoric, fractious commentary,and block headed innuendos. You are not one fiftieth as cute or insightful as you think you are.
I wish I really WERE Dr. Phil. Cuz you could sure use some professional help.
LOL!
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Quote:
med said:
This has got to be, post of the month....very funny
True, I believe the gentleman's hyperbolic employment of aggrandized and exotic patois leaves the preponderant quantity of assiduous confreres of this board mildly beguiled - if I may be so bold and share my conjecture.
I think his Merriam-Webster Thesaurus must have caught fire when he wrote this.
PS: I'm impressed that he's been driving more than 900,000 miles in various Porsches - and I didn't even know they made Porsche cabs!!
Jan 22, 2005 11:08:43 PM
- Mellow Yellow
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- Reply to: JimFlat6
Re: Boxster S Faster than 997 on Hockenheim??
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
You do lead the way when it comes to spiteful obnoxiousness.
I didn't really think we could expect anything less from you.
Enjoy!
You should actually expect more, your original post was unfounded and full of attacks regarding the Boxster's performance, which by the way is not simply a function of acceleration times as you seem to indicate. DrPhil had every right to counter it. Maybe if you didn't approach it with your original obnoxious tone, his response would have a been a little nicer.
And if you don't believe me, you might want to re-read your original post which caused it.
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