Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires - Page2

Dec 21, 2004 6:58:37 PM

Guy: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 135, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2003; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Drove my GT2 last week in the wet and -2 degrees Celcius, Car has the Ruf 550bhp, 580lb ft upgrade engine and runs on Pirelli Corsa track-tires. No PSM as a it's GT2.

The first mile or so was crazy, I was getting wheelspin in every gear up to 5th, even in a straight line. After a couple of miles the tires warmed up a bit and traction was OK in 4th and above.

Not the right weather for this car or these tires...........

Guy

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Dec 21, 2004 11:58:09 PM

GG: Co-Pilot; Loc: NY/NJ; Posts: 180, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Quote:
pnoble said:
Quote:
swisstrader said:
Please tell me it's just me, but I've been told by my service folks in NJ that the winter tires (Conti's) for the 997 still are NOT available in the US, which is a bit mind blowing for me personally. If someone knows information to the contrary, I'd love to hear it, otherwise I'll be taking the bus more often!

I might have mentioned this elsewhere, but my Pirelli SottoZero winter tires should be arriving tomorrow from Tire Rack. These are the (stock size) winter tires they recommend highly.

I was initially told they would ship December 31st but they shipped two weeks early.

Both Service and Parts at Paul Miller Porsche to whom I had the tires shipped said it will be no problem for them to swap tires for the three years I will have my car on lease rather than purchase a second set of rims. I hope they are right.

They certainly can't be accused of trying to oversell me!

My dealer sold me a new set of RIMS.....can i use the same RIMS on the summer and winter tires? If i don't need a new set it would definitely save me a FEW dollars!

GG

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Dec 22, 2004 3:24:01 AM

pnoble: Co-Pilot; Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States; Posts: 231, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2004; Reply to: GG

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

My dealer said a second set of rims is not necessary. I am having the tires swapped out tomorrow at the dealer. Cost will be $310 from what I remember including balancing. They claim it will take three hours. Seems a bit long to me.

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Dec 22, 2004 1:43:12 PM

alin2: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 389, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2004; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

pnoble:

that's actually a pretty accurate time to remove your current tires and carefully mount your winter tires. just be sure to get them Hunter road force balanced!

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Dec 23, 2004 1:05:18 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59602, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Quote:
pnoble said:
My dealer said a second set of rims is not necessary. I am having the tires swapped out tomorrow at the dealer. Cost will be $310 from what I remember including balancing. They claim it will take three hours. Seems a bit long to me.

Swapping 19'' low profile tires is insane in my opinion. Even 18'' tires are a problem. The tire(s) can take invisible damage in this process and in a worst-case scenario, you end up with a blown tire. Definetely not recommended, no matter what the dealer told you.

I know that the complete winter wheel sets from Porsche are expensive.

But if you had the money to pay for a car like the 997, you should invest a little bit more in your safety too. Just a friendly advise.

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Dec 23, 2004 4:00:09 AM

pnoble: Co-Pilot; Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States; Posts: 231, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
pnoble said:
My dealer said a second set of rims is not necessary. I am having the tires swapped out tomorrow at the dealer. Cost will be $310 from what I remember including balancing. They claim it will take three hours. Seems a bit long to me.

Swapping 19'' low profile tires is insane in my opinion. Even 18'' tires are a problem. The tire(s) can take invisible damage in this process and in a worst-case scenario, you end up with a blown tire. Definetely not recommended, no matter what the dealer told you.

I know that the complete winter wheel sets from Porsche are expensive. But if you had the money to pay for a car like the 997, you should invest a little bit more in your safety too. Just a friendly advise.

My dealer changed my tires today. I asked specifically if any damage might result and they said: 'no'. I'm not suggesting that you are wrong, RC, just giving you a feel for what I am experiencing here in the good old US of A!

They also, on the other hand, AFTER installing the tires, pointed out that they are not N rated so therefore not strictly kosher despite Tire Rack telling me that they were the right tire for my 997S and despite the fact that neither of the two Porsche Europe recommended tires are available in the USA in the recommended sizes for the 997S. And, FYI, Porsche dealers themselves evidently get their tires from Tire Rack. Certainly Paul Miller says they do.

Meanwhile Porsche North America has not provided any advice whatsoever or direction to its dealers re winter tires, and I even called their customer service number and they told me I had to speak to my dealer.

I personally think that any company selling high performance sports cars to customers in the North East US in the middle of the winter has a de facto responsibility to its customers and dealers to guide them on the subject of winter tires.

I imagine that soon Porsche dealers in the North East are going to be handing over the keys to their new customers on their snow coverered lots, only to see them slide off into oncoming traffic or the nearest tree.

If there are any US lawyers on this site: this is one hellava class action suit in the making!

PS: Hello PNA. Now I've got your attention, yes? You can get my number or e-mail address from Paul Miller Porsche. Please feel free to call or write. I look forward to hearing from you. I'll even be happy to pass on your advice to this message board! It will save you the bother of having to release a bulletin to your dealers!

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Dec 23, 2004 10:48:07 AM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

"Meanwhile Porsche North America has not provided any advice whatsoever or direction to its dealers re winter tires"

This is not quite accurate.
I have a leaflet that I picked up from my dealer called "Tires Porsche Approved Original Equipment Fall/Winter 2004-2005".
It lists the approved summer and winter tires for all current models including the 997 and even the 987.
The actual problem seems to me that some of the recommended tires are not currently available in North America (just like the retrofit phone module is not currently available). Whilst annoying and frustrating, the availability of specific tires produced by third-party companies does not appear to me to be the legal responsibility of PCNA.

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Dec 23, 2004 12:38:37 PM

pnoble: Co-Pilot; Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States; Posts: 231, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2004; Reply to: KenH

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Quote:
KenH said:
"Meanwhile Porsche North America has not provided any advice whatsoever or direction to its dealers re winter tires"

This is not quite accurate.
I have a leaflet that I picked up from my dealer called "Tires Porsche Approved Original Equipment Fall/Winter 2004-2005".
It lists the approved summer and winter tires for all current models including the 997 and even the 987.
The actual problem seems to me that some of the recommended tires are not currently available in North America (just like the retrofit phone module is not currently available). Whilst annoying and frustrating, the availability of specific tires produced by third-party companies does not appear to me to be the legal responsibility of PCNA.

I asked my dealer only yesterday and they said they had not yet received any info from PNA! Parts and Service are five feet from each other and folks in both said 'No'. Are ANY of the 997S winter tire options on the list currently available in the US? Is it the same European list posted on this site, I wonder. Neither of those tires were available - one at all, the other (the Conti 810) in the 997s size.

KenH, I do think PNA has a responsibility to ensure that an adequate supply of proper snow tires are available or they should have their dealers warn prospective customers that there is no current provision for using their cars in the winter. I specifically told my dealer my intention and requirement to drive my 997S year round before ordering it.

What practically speaking is going to happen in the North East and Mountain regions over the next three months? Will PNA suspend sales of 997's? How should a customer take delivery: on a flat-bed directly to their garage?

Driving such a car with summer tires, even off the dealer lot, could be lethal for car and driver both. I say this without any personal experience driving a Porsche in the snow with summer tires, but have read others' experiences here and had plenty with my M5 when I was caught in an early snow storm last year.

I do believe PNA has a duty to its customers to ensure the availability of suitable tires for the environmental conditions under which they are selling their cars.

Unlike the issue with the phone which is merely inconvenient, the issue with tires can kill.

PS: I just went on Tire Rack's web site. They now specifically list the Pirelli SottoZeros as the only recommended winter tires for the 997S. And less than one week after starting to ship these tires, they say in large red letters: SOLD OUT FOR THE SEASON!

So now I am left to gloat that I am one of the lucky few that can drive my new car this winter - which is quite useful since I don't have another car on hand, and I am also left to worry that not being N rated might possibly compomise its handling - something my dealer only told me post facto yesterday when handing me back my car!

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Dec 23, 2004 1:20:07 PM

KenH: Co-Pilot; Loc: Leesburg VA; Posts: 249, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 23, 2004; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Well my dealer (HBL in Vienna, VA) has a rack of leaflets on display in the foyer outside their parts department, right next to the service advisors.
That is where I got the leaflet I mentioned. By the way it implies that Porsche, via a Porsche dealer, is a source of all the tires it lists.

At the moment we seem to have the following information:
1. A dealer (that allegedly buys his tires from Tire Rack) that doesn't have access to the appropriate tires and doesn't seem to have definitive information.
2. Tire Rack, a large tire dealer that does not have the appropriate tires and recommended a different one until they sold out.
3. PNA who have correctly referred a customer to his dealer.

We seem to be lacking definitive information such as:

1. What do Pirelli and Continental say about availability of the tires recommended by PNA?
2. Can PNA actually supply tires (or complete winter wheels) if their dealers were to order from them (rather than Tire Rack)?

I think that definitive answers to the above two questions are the only way to move forward.

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Dec 23, 2004 9:57:02 PM

pnoble: Co-Pilot; Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States; Posts: 231, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2004; Reply to: KenH

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

KenH,

I called my dealer to confirm if a) they got the notification from PNA and b) if they have any winter tire options available. They have gone home for Christmas.

To be continued!

PS: It was they who had told me that they and PNA both get all their tires through Tire Rack.

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Dec 23, 2004 10:57:14 PM

Holminator: Veteran; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 1041, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2004; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

My dealer told me that they were willing to deliver my 997 to me if I didn't have the time to pick it up. It was going to be loaded on a truck. Maybe that's Porsche's back-up plan in the event of customer delivery on a snow day. I'm just guessing. Anyway, the weather was fine, except I need more body fat because I frozen my !@# off, during the vehicle inspection/delivery, and I drove her home myself.

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Dec 24, 2004 3:15:19 PM

alin2: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 389, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2004; Reply to: Holminator

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Interesting...my dealership parts manager checked the online parts inventory and found the CIII/Conti Wintercontact 810 set on back order in the US but with over 30 sets in Germany. He said that it is no problem ordering a set from Germany, but that it might take awhile to get here. No worries since my 997S just entered production...I'll follow-up next week to be sure this is really happening. I already told the dealership that I'm not driving off the lot without Porsche winter rubber!

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Dec 24, 2004 5:18:03 PM

pnoble: Co-Pilot; Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States; Posts: 231, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2004; Reply to: alin2

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Quote:
alin2 said:
Interesting...my dealership parts manager checked the online parts inventory and found the CIII/Conti Wintercontact 810 set on back order in the US but with over 30 sets in Germany. He said that it is no problem ordering a set from Germany, but that it might take awhile to get here. No worries since my 997S just entered production...I'll follow-up next week to be sure this is really happening. I already told the dealership that I'm not driving off the lot without Porsche winter rubber!

What size are they? Standard 19"?

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Dec 24, 2004 5:23:47 PM

alin2: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 389, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2004; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Pnoble:

Because there can be quite a bit of snow here in lovely Chicagoland, I opted for the 18" Carerra III wheel with the Continental Wintercontact 810 tires. I didn't have the check for the 19" Carerra S whhel with the 19" Continental Wintercontact 810. BTW, how are the Pirellis?

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Dec 25, 2004 12:20:00 AM

pnoble: Co-Pilot; Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States; Posts: 231, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2004; Reply to: alin2

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Alin2,

From my initial experience, excellent. But we didn't get socked with snow as you did, so I have only driven them in heavy rain and they are not either broken in since I only got them mounted two days ago.

They are evidently the hot new winter tire, just introduced this year. Tire Rack raved about them. Said they were anyhow the ONLY snow tires available in the stock 997S sizes - which Porsche was recommending according Porsche Germany.

They said they would ship 12/31, but instead they shipped two weeks early and now, a week later, they are already out of stock for the season, so I guess I'm not the only one to put them on my 997S!

And yes, they are not, N rated and no, my Porsche dealer didn't have any other suggestions. Just a warning! Hopefully I won't kill myself in them due to their non-N rating. I surely would kill myself if I tried to drive in the snow with N-rated summer tires!!!

Interestingly Tire Rack doesn't sell the Conti 810 and told me as I remember it that they are not sold in the USA. I seem to remember that you had posted a URL for a company that did. Do they have the stock 19" Conti 810s also? Do they import them themselves I wonder. I thought Tire Rack stocked just about every mainstream tire made. It is hurting their business surely to have zero winter tire options for the 997S going into snow season.

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Dec 25, 2004 4:17:15 PM

alin2: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 389, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2004; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

The company that had a set of 18" CIII wheels/Continental Wintercontact 810 was Wheel Enhancement out of California. They have an excellent reputation and were very helpful. Of course, they are now sold out of the Porsche approved winter tires including the 19". I'm not sure how they get all the Porsche rims and tires, but they seem to specialize in them.

I'm suprised that the Tire Rack is not carrying the Continental Wintercontact 810s

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Jan 6, 2005 12:00:50 PM

pnoble: Co-Pilot; Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States; Posts: 231, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2004; Reply to: alin2

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

alin2,

I got back from vacation and called Paul Miller Porsche's parts department yesterday afternoon.

I said: 'Have you received any info from Porsche yet on winter tires'. He said: 'You know I think we just did, but I can't find it. Call back tomorrow'.

And outside it was snowing!

Doesn't seem a subject they get many calls on. Maybe everyone is buying their winter tires in California instead. Go figure!

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Jan 6, 2005 2:59:28 PM

GG: Co-Pilot; Loc: NY/NJ; Posts: 180, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Quote:
pnoble said:
alin2,

I got back from vacation and called Paul Miller Porsche's parts department yesterday afternoon.

I said: 'Have you received any info from Porsche yet on winter tires'. He said: 'You know I think we just did, but I can't find it. Call back tomorrow'.

And outside it was snowing!

Doesn't seem a subject they get many calls on. Maybe everyone is buying their winter tires in California instead. Go figure!

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Jan 12, 2005 4:32:50 AM

pnoble: Co-Pilot; Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States; Posts: 231, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2004; Reply to: GG

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

I haven't had time to call the dealer back but today we got a little snow and a lot of freezing rain and icy slush.

My Pirelli SottoZeros (full size: 19" 235/295) performed exceptionally well from my POV. Driving quite fast the car felt very stable, assured and 'confident'. (OK, I felt confident!)

The Tire Rack salesman had raved about them when I bought them. He said that in their estimation nothing came close. Certainly they were first introduced this year to much fanfare.

On the other hand, I have not had the opportunity to compare myself with the Contis or other N rated options.

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Jan 12, 2005 10:15:53 PM

GG: Co-Pilot; Loc: NY/NJ; Posts: 180, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: pnoble

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

Pnoble,

I have the same tires and they are great. I actually think the car feels a tad bit more darty with the SottoZeros but i still think they are great!

GG

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Jan 14, 2005 3:06:23 AM

pnoble: Co-Pilot; Loc: Short Hills, NJ , United States; Posts: 231, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 18, 2004; Reply to: GG

Re: Warning - 997 Carrera S winter driving with summer tires

GG,

It's good to know I'm not alone driving a 997S with SottoZeros!

Paul

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