Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: BMW M6 Power - Page1

Dec 3, 2004 9:37:12 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

BMW M6 Power

Just came off the phone with somebody who just had a close look at the new M6 recently.
He claimed that the new M6 will have the same engine and power figure like the new M5.
This means 507 HP for the M6 and not 530, 540 or even 560 as some people suggested on various internet forums.

The weight will be aprox. in the M5 range, so expect performance figures at M5 level.
Another interesting thing: the new M6 might be the first "regular" BMW to get a raised speed limiter to 270 kph.

Please take the above information with a grain of salt, I'm just reporting it.

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Dec 3, 2004 10:59:10 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: BMW M6 Power

Quote:
This means 507 HP for the M6

sounds reasonable to me. i already wondered how BMW would get more than 500 HP from the M5's V10 without charging it... IMO the V10 is already on the peak of its possibilities regarding power output, or why doesn't it supply 507 HP all the time? the only reason that comes to my mind: conserve the engine in 400 HP mode so that it doesn't brake down too early (like the M3's

).

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Dec 3, 2004 3:25:54 PM

MSB: Junior; Loc: Abu Dhabi , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 71, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2002; Reply to: zzboba

Re: BMW M6 Power

Driving characteristics will be better on the M6 than on the M5. The M6 will be a proper GT. Tuning will be very difficult, its not that it can't be done, Nowack and Hartge are already working out 600hp versions but the engine seems to be already at a peak. Lets not forget about blown M3 engines.

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Dec 3, 2004 3:52:36 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: MSB

Re: BMW M6 Power

Will BMW even find real brakes for M6? Perhaps ceramics as option to keep base MSRP down?

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Dec 3, 2004 4:09:29 PM

W8MM: Rennteam Master; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 3995, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2003; Reply to: WBH

Re: BMW M6 Power

Quote:
VKSF said:
Will BMW even find real brakes for M6?

A clairvoyant question

I will be so very surprised if BMW EVER puts track-event-adequate brakes on any of their street cars.

Every BMW I have ever owned (going back to 1974) has had only modest heat-flow capacity in the brake system.

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Dec 3, 2004 5:20:33 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: W8MM

Re: BMW M6 Power

The higher output motor (~550hp V10) is supposedly being saved for the M6 CSL version with reduced weight. I believe the additional power is to come from increased displacement to 5.5L, so additional torque too...

Same situation with next generation M3:

M3 400Hp V8 4.0L
M3 CSL 440-450 Hp V8 4.5L with reduced weight

Just rumors that I read in some rags...

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Dec 6, 2004 4:07:48 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: BMW M6 Power

Is the new M3 motor intended to mount an attack on the GT series? Should the GT3RSRs be worried?

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Dec 6, 2004 8:00:40 AM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: Yargk

Re: BMW M6 Power

Quote:
Yargk said:
Is the new M3 motor intended to mount an attack on the GT series? Should the GT3RSRs be worried?

i bet they are, but the 997GT3s should be right ahead of em

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Dec 6, 2004 3:33:36 PM

teflon: Co-Pilot; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 13, 2003; Reply to: Moogle

Re: BMW M6 Power

Moogle,

Don't bet on that. The M3 GTRs (4 ltr V8) had little trouble defeating the GT3 RSs.

Greg A

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Dec 17, 2004 4:51:09 PM

Velle M.: Newbie; Loc: Sweden; Posts: 26, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 7, 2004; Reply to: zzboba

Re: BMW M6 Power

Quote:
zzboba said:

Quote:
This means 507 HP for the M6

sounds reasonable to me. i already wondered how BMW would get more than 500 HP from the M5's V10 without charging it... IMO the V10 is already on the peak of its possibilities regarding power output, or why doesn't it supply 507 HP all the time? the only reason that comes to my mind: conserve the engine in 400 HP mode so that it doesn't brake down too early (like the M3's ).

Are you guessing, or do you realy know the true potencial of the new V10?
Or are you just writing BMW down on given opportunity?

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Dec 17, 2004 5:57:22 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Velle M.

Re: BMW M6 Power

Quote:
Velle M. said:
Are you guessing, or do you realy know the true potencial of the new V10?
Or are you just writing BMW down on given opportunity?

Whatever the case may be, but what is a "power switch" in a N/A-V10 good for?

Why choose between 400 or 507 hp respectively?

I could understand, if it was a turbo charged engine, something like the good old power switch ("Dampfrad") in the old turbos from Ruf or Alpina, where you could adjust the turbo pressure. But a N/A-V10???

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Dec 17, 2004 7:51:02 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21151, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: BMW M6 Power

Has BMW offered a good logical reason for the switch anyway?
To me it doesn't make sense at all either, and given their high-strung M3 engine infamous reliability issues, it sure smells fishy to say the least.
So I'm very curious to know what is the specific mechanism by which it reduces the HP to 400HP and why to draw more definitive conclusions?

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Dec 17, 2004 9:06:21 PM

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Romania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: BMW M6 Power

Quote:
least.
So I'm very curious to know what is the specific mechanism by which it reduces the HP to 400HP

Valve timing? Sort of a reverse variocam?:D

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Dec 18, 2004 12:21:18 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: brunner

Re: BMW M6 Power

Quote:
brunner said:
Quote:
least.
So I'm very curious to know what is the specific mechanism by which it reduces the HP to 400HP

Valve timing? Sort of a reverse variocam?:D

Probably screws around with spark advance/retard and throttle too (electronically controlled)

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Dec 18, 2004 1:23:23 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21151, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Grant

Re: BMW M6 Power

I'd be interesting to see if in "normal 400HP mode" the rev line is lowered bellow the 8300RPM to a "safer" limit

that would be an interesting clue. Another would be the claimed reason, if the 507HP model fuel consumption is outrageous and the normal mode saves fuel consumption significantly, it would be a credible reason. If OTOH they say its because you don't need 507HP they put a button to limit to 400HP that you have to push everytime you want to use the engine potential you paid for instead of simply letting your right foot do the job then that would be a very flimsy excuse. I mean you can have a "sport mode" button that can change throttle response, etc (along with electronic stability setting, shift patters, etc) and we see this on many sport cars (the M5 and M6 have it themselves), but not one that limits HP since that is not necesary, its not like you get instant 507HP as soon as you lightly depress the throttle at 1000RPM.

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Dec 18, 2004 3:11:20 AM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: BMW M6 Power

The M5's engine fuel consumption is horrendous! I still can't see why its such a technical marvel that BMW make it out to be, isn't there already a 500hp 510NM 5.0l V10 out there made by Audi, I mean Lamborghini?

I used to think the 55K consmption was bad, hence AMG abandoning supercharging for this very reason, but 12mpg in normal driving conditions! The M5 will not be big seller in the UK for this reason....I know consumption is no biggie when talking about sports cars, but a 4 door saloon that beats the CL65 in bad fuel economy?

Regarding the power switch, couldn't they just turn off the two cylinders, as in not providing fuel for them?

regarding their engines blowing up, couldn't they use titanium components for longevity, expenditure aside, just like the GT3?

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Dec 18, 2004 12:20:15 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Grant

Re: BMW M6 Power

Quote:
Grant said:
The higher output motor (~550hp V10) is supposedly being saved for the M6 CSL version with reduced weight. I believe the additional power is to come from increased displacement to 5.5L, so additional torque too...

Same situation with next generation M3:

M3 400Hp V8 4.0L
M3 CSL 440-450 Hp V8 4.5L with reduced weight

Just rumors that I read in some rags...

M6 CSL? I doubt it. And if it is really coming (and I still doubt it

), it would be VERY VERY VERY expensive. Look at the current M6: they had to use a carbon fibre roof to have a lower weight (on the paper) than on the M5.

I love it when you guys rant about lower weight cars but I bet that 99% of the potential M6 customers wouldn't be able to use the M6's full potential, not to speak about a "lighweight" version.

It is only about "beating" Porsche and their cars, this is actually the truth behind all discussions about light weight. Porsche is the only high volume output car manufacturer whose cars still can be somehow called "lightweight".

Let me give you an example: look at the current BMW M3. Or take the Mercedes SLK 55 AMG. And now let's have a look at the 997 Carrera S with PCCB and 20 mm chassis.

Any more questions?

BTW: the 400 HP figure of the new M3 V8 engine has been confirmed to me by my "friend".

And a M3 CSL might not come because the "old" one didn't sell too well. Apparently BMW is planning a more aggressive approach to the sports car world by developping a super sports car of a SLR or CGT calibre. Let's BMW surprise us...

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Dec 18, 2004 12:32:58 PM

Just_me: Co-Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 170, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 16, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: BMW M6 Power

Interview with M Manager Mr. Bruhnke about M6

What are the opponents of the M6 in technical terms?

According to technical specs, if you are looking at the power-weight ratio for instance, the Ferrari Maranello, Porsche Turbo and Lamborghini Gallardo are possible opponents. But the difference between the characters of these cars is so huge that a customer is likely to make a decision according to the chracter. The M6 can be compared with these competitors but it offers a better price-performance ratio.

How do you characterize the M6?

We have improved the total dynamics according to the BMW motto "better 1000 kg than 1000 bhp". That starts with the weight reduction. The M6 weighs about 50 kg less than the M5. Roof and bumper-carriers are made of carbon fibre, the lid of the trunk is made of SMC-plastic. That lowers the centre of gravity. Each of the 4 wheels wheighs 2 kg less than other comparable wheels.

What's the difference between M6 and M5?

The M6 has been tuned different according to its character. It is more driver oriented, more sporty and more emotion-appealing. The M5 is the better allrounder.

Are the 11 options of engine and performance programming not to much of a good thing?

The more you automate the more the driver feels patronized. We offer the possibility for the M6 driver to choose from basic settings and to program it. Only by testing the different settings the driver can find out what is optimal for him. He decides how the engine and transmission characteristic looks like and he can make changes at any time.

The M6 is despite of its dynamic appearance unobtrusive in design.

The form follows the function. The 6 series coupe delivers the basic form and our designer Ulf Weidhase contributes the M-elements. The big cooling air entrances on the front and the diffusor on the back are important for airflow and heat removal.

Don't revs above 8000 rpm stress the mechanics?

High revs have a much smaller effect on the engine - appropriate choose of materials and engine settings provided - than an engine that works with a turbo or supercharger where sudden high pressures occur.

Can you imagine that the M6 takes part in motorsport?

It is possible, that we go for the GT world championship if the rules are just right.

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Dec 20, 2004 9:03:27 PM

Velle M.: Newbie; Loc: Sweden; Posts: 26, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 7, 2004; Reply to: Just_me

Re: BMW M6 Power

The function of the switch?
I'm puzzled myself, Corvette had it on a recent 90's modell, same goes with the sport switch. Annoying realy to be forced every time to push it...
How they did it?
I would bet my money that the throttle bodies do not open fully even thougt ou are pressing full throttle. Volvo has it on their 140hp version of the 170hp engine, as do Audi with their 2,4 V6 engines with different power levels.
Surely if you want to kill an engine, a little switch would not be in your way, so to presume the BMW thought our engines will live longer thax to this switch is BS. Agree?

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Dec 20, 2004 9:18:59 PM

Velle M.: Newbie; Loc: Sweden; Posts: 26, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 7, 2004; Reply to: Velle M.

Re: BMW M6 Power

RC:
About the CSL......
BMW has placed a significant order with Zoltek a Carbon Fiber company, so maybe they won't produce CSL's but they will use Carbon fiber......
And how can you compare a Carrera S with PCCB with a stock M3? Are the prices even close????
Compare a M3 with the Boxter with the 204hp engine, does it seam fair?
I surely would not choose betwean the two, they are just too far apart.
Porsches 997 S, and BMW M3....
Have perspective, please.

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Dec 21, 2004 12:11:40 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Velle M.

Re: BMW M6 Power

Quote:
Velle M. said:
RC:
About the CSL......
BMW has placed a significant order with Zoltek a Carbon Fiber company, so maybe they won't produce CSL's but they will use Carbon fiber......
And how can you compare a Carrera S with PCCB with a stock M3? Are the prices even close????
Compare a M3 with the Boxter with the 204hp engine, does it seam fair?
I surely would not choose betwean the two, they are just too far apart.
Porsches 997 S, and BMW M3....
Have perspective, please.

As far as carbon fiber goes, the M6 uses it for its roof. Would that explain the order? I would imagine a full-CF-bodied M6 CSL to be horrendously expensive...

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