Crown

noone1:

Some of you guys sounds butt hurt than AMG just stomped the competition for some reason. Not sure why you don't believe Mercedes is capable of creating such a car when you know they are capable of making competitive GT3 and F1 cars.

Mercedes did a bunch of laps with the car. How do you think the tires would look fine after 60 mins of hot laps? You can even see their previous lap times on the timer in the video. Was 7:14 and 7:40 in laps prior. 

You don't understand. Mercedes AMG has a certain track record in my book and not a pretty one. 

This is the only reason I am suspicious. I may be wrong but I am suspicious.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

noone1:

 

CG did a 488. We know the 488 is faster than just about all those old cars regardless of who drove them. If CG did the 488 and the GT R, and the GT R was better than the 488, then we know the GT R is better than all the old times too.

 

We are not discussing if he drove the time, that is obvious. We are discussing if the car he drove is at least similar to what they intend to sell to customers 

BjoernB:

the gaps would be smaller - simple - or are you saying that a GTR compensates 100HP to the 488 and 11 seconds with just rear-wheel steering ? a 488 is surely a Benchmark - and was measured with 703 HP.....

Also, the AMG GTS (basically the same car before optimization) was about 25s (!) slower than the car tested now. Very unlikely.

MKSGR:

BjoernB:

the gaps would be smaller - simple - or are you saying that a GTR compensates 100HP to the 488 and 11 seconds with just rear-wheel steering ? a 488 is surely a Benchmark - and was measured with 703 HP.....

Also, the AMG GTS (basically the same car before optimization) was about 25s (!) slower than the car tested now. Very unlikely.

Also, the AMG GT S was over 600 hp as far as I remember, so even less likely.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

MKSGR:

noone1:

 

CG did a 488. We know the 488 is faster than just about all those old cars regardless of who drove them. If CG did the 488 and the GT R, and the GT R was better than the 488, then we know the GT R is better than all the old times too.

 

We are not discussing if he drove the time, that is obvious. We are discussing if the car he drove is at least similar to what they intend to sell to customers 

What indication is there that it isn't? If you want to set up your suspension, you can do that. If you want these Cup2 tires, you can get them. If you want tire warmers, you can buy some.

No car straight off the production line can put in these times. Porsche sets up their cars too. Everyone does.

MKSGR:

BjoernB:

the gaps would be smaller - simple - or are you saying that a GTR compensates 100HP to the 488 and 11 seconds with just rear-wheel steering ? a 488 is surely a Benchmark - and was measured with 703 HP.....

Also, the AMG GTS (basically the same car before optimization) was about 25s (!) slower than the car tested now. Very unlikely.

Well, HvS did the test in the GTS and CG is supposedly quite a bit quicker, so chop off some time. Add RWS. Add better tires. Add tuned suspension. Add better aero. Add more aggressive tuning for everything.

On a 7 minute lap, tires alone easily drop 7-10s off the lap.

OK, let me try it differently: Take a Carrera S and then a GT3. Compare their track times and take in consideration that the Carrera and the GT3 RS are actually totally different cars.

Now take the GT R and compare it to the GT S. Basically the same car but improved for the track. The differences between the GT R and the GT S are not, to my knowledge, as big as the differences between the Carrera S and the GT3 RS.

Now take those 25 seconds into consideration again...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Seems totally possible to me.

Driver - 5s
Tires - 8s
Suspension - 5s
Engine - 3s
Aero - 3s

That's 24s. Adjust them a little bit however you feel is best. Maybe Porsche sets up there 911 CS very well for tests and maybe Mercedes made less of an effort for the GT S.

What is to explain? its pretty obvious and those that haven't gotten it by now aren't going to get it.. its not like AMG hasn't been caught doing it before...

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Just sounds to me like Porsche owners on here are a bit salty that the GT R is so much better than the 911...

noone, how long have you been here... do you really think that would be the case in this forum from the people above? c'mon, none of them are not your typical fan boys... 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

First, I made a little error, 991.2 GT2 RS will be the car that will get around 7:08,00min or even faster on special Cups.

Second, some members here dissapoint me a lot with their apparent narrow mindedness. So, Sport Auto is a fraud magazine payed by AMG? Are some of you aware what you are claiming here? Do you really think that Sport Auto is soo STUPID that they would do this kind of scam? 

To repeat once again I am not getting AMG GT R nor am I working for AMG. But, accusations made here by some members (specially the ones which are in my opinion so far prove to be an excellent contributors here) are on verge on been made by Man in Black.

So, only sportscar that can be really fast on the Ring is Porsche 911 (991.2) or some Ferrari (488 GTB)?

Really?!

AB Sportscars and AZ will very soon post their tests of GT R, Supertest of SA will also appear soon. What if the results will be a good one? 

Yeah, I already know the answer-all press cars are "cooked". 

Carlos from Spain:

noone, how long have you been here... do you really think that would be the case in this forum from the people above? c'mon, none of them are not your typical fan boys... 

He just loves to rattle our cages, just let him if it makes him happy.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

MKSGR:

BjoernB:

the gaps would be smaller - simple - or are you saying that a GTR compensates 100HP to the 488 and 11 seconds with just rear-wheel steering ? a 488 is surely a Benchmark - and was measured with 703 HP.....

Also, the AMG GTS (basically the same car before optimization) was about 25s (!) slower than the car tested now. Very unlikely.

Markus,

I respect you highly but here you are eithet 100% right or 100% wrong.

No little bit right or little bit wrong.

IF you are right then Sport Auto can immediately stop to exist. Yes, that is my honest opinion since IF you are right their credibility is flashed down the toilet.

If you are wrong nothing major will happen. Only you will have to admit to yourself that you were wrong.

But is the car a one lap wonder or can it lay down laps after laps without breaking something?

KresoF1:

First, I made a little error, 991.2 GT2 RS will be the car that will get around 7:08,00min or even faster on special Cups.

Second, some members here dissapoint me a lot with their apparent narrow mindedness. So, Sport Auto is a fraud magazine payed by AMG? Are some of you aware what you are claiming here? Do you really think that Sport Auto is soo STUPID that they would do this kind of scam? 

No, Sport Auto is not paid but they get money for AMG ads. No problem with that, Porsche has ads in Sport Auto as well. However, I miss a little bit of the critical thinking and testing of HvS. He has been criticized for not being fast enough but even if GB may be a couple of seconds faster, he is not HvS and lacks the critical approach to cars and manufacturers. Just a different style of journalism in my opinion, one which makes manufacturers happier but kind of leaves the reader and car enthusiast in the dust. 

To repeat once again I am not getting AMG GT R nor am I working for AMG. But, accusations made here by some members (specially the ones which are in my opinion so far prove to be an excellent contributors here) are on verge on been made by Man in Black.

Who said you are working for AMG? I always thought you work for Mercedes.   Or Audi maybe? 

Relax... 

So, only sportscar that can be really fast on the Ring is Porsche 911 (991.2) or some Ferrari (488 GTB)?

Really?!

No but 25 seconds vs. the AMG GT S, under the conditions they reported (4-8°C)...even you should be cautious. 

AB Sportscars and AZ will very soon post their tests of GT R, Supertest of SA will also appear soon. What if the results will be a good one? 

Yeah, I already know the answer-all press cars are "cooked". 

Not all press cars are "cooked", usually they are only selected.  Nothing wrong with it but some manufacturers sometimes go a bit too far in their enthusiasm...

From my experience on the road with certain brands and cars, I know who is a bit too enthusiastic and who isn't. AMG and M GmbH seem to fit this profile. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Whoopsy:

But is the car a one lap wonder or can it lay down laps after laps without breaking something?

Well...this remains to be seen. Also if the GT R is really that good. Car enthusiasts usually cannot be fooled, especially those who actually own and drive these cars. Remember the Nissan GT-R? Well, I do not know many people in Europe who seriously track race this car (anymore) or who actually want to get one. The hype for this car has only been surpassed by their owner's ego  in the past but things have changed. 

I would be thrilled if the AMG GT R is that good, trust me. Another product to put pressure on Porsche and others, this cannot be wrong. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Whoopsy:

But is the car a one lap wonder or can it lay down laps after laps without breaking something?

 

Nick,

CG did around 7 hot laps and the one was 7.40, then 7.14 prior to 7.10,92min lap. Also, car was driven over 60 mins o that test session on the Ring. 

But, maybe it was "cooked" by Gordon Ramsey with speical ingredients?

I'm just sayin... no one is hollering up a storm when a 911 puts down a fast lap, like the 991.2 CS being faster than the track oriented GT3.

GT R is fast. When you take into account all the potential differences, the time is fine. 

KresoF1:

Whoopsy:

But is the car a one lap wonder or can it lay down laps after laps without breaking something?

 

Nick,

CG did around 7 hot laps and the one was 7.40, then 7.14 prior to 7.10,92min lap. Also, car was driven over 60 mins o that test session on the Ring. 

But, maybe it was "cooked" by Gordon Ramsey with speical ingredients?

That means it's already better than the Nissan GTR!

I actually don't doubt the results. Modern electronics can do wonders, RWS is a big advantage, and no doubt it also has the latest traction control system which Mercedes learnt from F1, that means putting down the power effectively. Depending on how the power comes on, the big torque from the turbo engine will gives it very fast acceleration out of corners, that's where the 918/919 has the big advantage, it's where modern racing is heading to, getting a jump out of corners instead of ultimate top speed at the long straights. 

Whoopsy:

no doubt it also has the latest traction control system which Mercedes learnt from F1, that means putting down the power effectively. Depending on how the power comes on, the big torque from the turbo engine will gives it very fast acceleration out of corners, that's where the 918/919 has the big advantage, it's where modern racing is heading to, getting a jump out of corners instead of ultimate top speed at the long straights. 

And the AMG also seemed to break 300kph on the long straight (by the in car speedo, but 295 kph per magazine), so not too slow there...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Whoopsy:

Hmm, I wonder what kind of record they will claim.

Fastest production car? Nope.

Fastest rear wheel drive car? YES.

Fastest Turbo-ed car? Nope.

Fastest AMG Mercedes, I guess that's the one.

 

FTFY

kingjr9000:

Whoopsy:

Hmm, I wonder what kind of record they will claim.

Fastest production car? Nope.

Fastest rear wheel drive car? YES.

Fastest Turbo-ed car? Nope.

Fastest AMG Mercedes, I guess that's the one.

 

FTFY

Hmm no. Radicals holds that record. Actually no, most race cars lapped it faster than that and they are all rwd.

Technically, the GT-R holds the fastest regular production rear wheel drive car record.

Whoopsy:

kingjr9000:

Whoopsy:

Hmm, I wonder what kind of record they will claim.

Fastest production car? Nope.

Fastest rear wheel drive car? YES.

Fastest Turbo-ed car? Nope.

Fastest AMG Mercedes, I guess that's the one.

 

FTFY

 

Hmm no. Radicals holds that record. Actually no, most race cars lapped it faster than that and they are all rwd.

Technically, the GT-R holds the fastest regular production rear wheel drive car record.

 

"Technically", the GT-R is AWD with RWD bias iirc, and no one really counts the radical, otherwise, the 918 is also forfeit.  

I'm impressed, my mates who race with the AMG GT3 and won the the 24hours N'Ring in 2013 and 2016 with Mercedes are equally full of praise for the car too. I'm having a sensational offer from Mercedes Switzerland too and as I've been treated badly by Porsche too, I'm seriously considering switching.

Mike

kingjr9000:

Whoopsy:

kingjr9000:

Whoopsy:

Hmm, I wonder what kind of record they will claim.

Fastest production car? Nope.

Fastest rear wheel drive car? YES.

Fastest Turbo-ed car? Nope.

Fastest AMG Mercedes, I guess that's the one.

 

FTFY

 

Hmm no. Radicals holds that record. Actually no, most race cars lapped it faster than that and they are all rwd.

Technically, the GT-R holds the fastest regular production rear wheel drive car record.

 

"Technically", the GT-R is AWD with RWD bias iirc, and no one really counts the radical, otherwise, the 918 is also forfeit.  

Dude, the GT-R is rear wheel drive. You must have gotten it mixed up with the Nissan GTR

 Well played

That game is becoming interesting. Knowing that the AMG GT Black Series is coming next year.

Here is a translation of the mag's main points from GCF:

Testday: 4th November (GT3-Testday)
They planned to produce the lap already and the rest of the supertest next spring, but since the lap was so surprisingly fast, they already published it.
Tires were heated before (outside temp. was 4°C).
Five fast laps before this one.
Some notes on the lap:
- Race mode, ESP off, TC on level 4, dampers in Sport Plus.
- does not feel as powerful as 488 GTB, but very easy to feel good (488 was a little bit harder to get used to)
- better aero is clearly recognizable compared to GT S
- much better steering than GT S (steering is very precise and not as nervous as GT S)
- stability very good because of new suspension and rear-wheel steering
- significantly higher grip than GT S due to suspension and new Cup 2 tires
- car conveys more confidence in slow passages than any other sportscar he drove before
- no nervousness in the fast passages like Schwedenkreuz and Kesselchen
- traction control works very subtle
- ceramic brakes work very well and ABS is very good with these tires.

noone1:

MKSGR:

noone1:

 

CG did a 488. We know the 488 is faster than just about all those old cars regardless of who drove them. If CG did the 488 and the GT R, and the GT R was better than the 488, then we know the GT R is better than all the old times too.

 

We are not discussing if he drove the time, that is obvious. We are discussing if the car he drove is at least similar to what they intend to sell to customers 

What indication is there that it isn't? If you want to set up your suspension, you can do that. If you want these Cup2 tires, you can get them. If you want tire warmers, you can buy some.

No car straight off the production line can put in these times. Porsche sets up their cars too. Everyone does.

I hope you are not serious about these points, if you want to be taken serious...