Crown

Whoopsy:

The farmer:

My chest is full of hair and my d... is of the right size (got references), so i dont ned to compair my self with other men Laptimes for me is more like golf. I compete only with myself and try to improvisation my own laptimes as much as possible. Hell, I'm a former tennisplayer, so why should i even try to compair my driving skils with Walter Röhl or Timo B or guys that started driving gocarts at the age of two?

But if I can do anything about the material (the car) that could improve my lap times, I'll go for it Except maybe the lithium battery. A good long start in the bathroom in the morning would easily take care of that extra weight in an easier way....

 

I can verify that claim. He keep going to the bathroom when we are on the track at Leipzig.

"but I think he went to puke cause he can't handle the G-force from the Cup cars"

Sorry you don't join me at Hockenheim this year. Would love to shown you the button to press when leaving the pit in order to make the car go faster than 60km/h Then, maybe, you too could experience some G forces....

noone1:

Since when do they engine dyno cars?

Stick track day tires on your track day car and the number stands. Why would you want to track your car with crappy street oriented tires? We already know that the latest generation compounds are a massive improvement. No reason to think they won't be available for customers.

IMO, the car does as they said it would initially. 1.06.3 is as quick as the 918.

The dyno test they are doing is a certified(!) test and pretty close to real output. It provides at least a hint if manufacturers are cheating or not. Surprisingly, BMW and Mercedes always come up with higher than factory  specs figures.

I do not say the GT R is slow but AMG has a "history", sorry to say that...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

nberry:

I really don't understand the obsession with weight among amateur drivers. I understand it for pros who making a living driving but a run of a mill driver? Come On! You really need an inflated ego to strip down a car so you can go around a track two seconds faster. It would be like doing the Ring in 8:05 instead of 8:10. Is it really something to brag about?

Weight is enemy number one for every amateur driver, my 700kg Donkervoort trackday costs are peanuts compared to my 'heavy' 4S: from brake pads to tyre wear, the € difference is huge due to lesser wear and smaller components. A big plus for a regular trackday driver.

That said, it does makes me smile whenever I see a +120 kilo guy wrestle himself in a stripped out, carbon fibre clad, Speciale or GT3...

--

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

MKSGR:

noone1:

MKSGR:

noone1:

Since when do they engine dyno cars?

Stick track day tires on your track day car and the number stands. Why would you want to track your car with crappy street oriented tires? We already know that the latest generation compounds are a massive improvement. No reason to think they won't be available for customers.

IMO, the car does as they said it would initially. 1.06.3 is as quick as the 918.

They have been dynoing cars for the last years.

The "special" Cup tires are not available to the market (pre-production). Maybe at a later stage. Of course, using such special prototype tires improves the lap times - but it does no tell us anything about the qualities of the car. I.e. useless test  Only good for the marketing...

Nothing but a professional set up engine dyno is accurate. 40 hp is just error in such high powered cars.

600 hp car
2% incorrect drivetrain loss estimate
2% engine variance
3% rolling dyno inaccuracy

Now you're already possibly 7% off, which is 42 hp on a 600 hp car.

You can be sure they have the knowhow and equipment to do proper tests...

BTW, a car with this much deviation from stated hp would be illegal to use on European roads

That's the thing -- it's not deviating by more than a couple percent. It's the combination of the engine/drivetrain variance/tolerance, test methodology, and dyno accuracy. A couple percent in the wrong direction for each will yield results that vary significantly.

RC:

noone1:

Since when do they engine dyno cars?

Stick track day tires on your track day car and the number stands. Why would you want to track your car with crappy street oriented tires? We already know that the latest generation compounds are a massive improvement. No reason to think they won't be available for customers.

IMO, the car does as they said it would initially. 1.06.3 is as quick as the 918.

The dyno test they are doing is a certified(!) test and pretty close to real output. It provides at least a hint if manufacturers are cheating or not. Surprisingly, BMW and Mercedes always come up with higher than factory  specs figures.

I do not say the GT R is slow but AMG has a "history", sorry to say that...

What exactly is a certified test?

Another issue Regarding weight:

You can feel it (or the lack thereof) immediately.  Drive a car under 3000 lbs and you will understand how it improves the feel of the car. 

RC:

Porker:

RC:

Porker:

What's the excuse for the GT R being quicker, RC? There must be something wrong with it? 

It seems to be faster on one track but maybe you can get one, I come with the R8 and we can try again. 😎

Seriously: It is definetely a fast car but straight line, it can't harm the R8 and on the track, well...it comes down 90% to driver skills anyway, so I'm not worried.

Btw: It was Markus who doubted the peformance of the GT R but since this is a press car and AMG has a "history" with press cars...well...why don't you get yourself one and we can try?! 😉

So if it's down to the driver, you'll definitely have the advantage, right? 

Yes...  

You can mod a car as much as you want but in the end, it always comes down to the driver. So instead of wasting tons of money for chassis mods and whatnot, you better put this money into serious track training.

The question is only: What for? If you want to drive in the Porsche Cup or similar events, OK but for some track fun on weekends, a standard car with semi-slicks will do as well. Usually these harmless events are a lot of fun with friends. Unless you have the time and money to do proper training for whatever reasons. I would never get into professional motorsports again, it is a waste of time and money if you don't do it right.

Kidding aside, I'm very interested in the GT R as a product (don't really care how quick it is). The only thing I'm worried of on the basis of earlier GT's and GT S's is the horrendous depreciation. But given the current demand for the GT R that might be less of an issue with this model.

Not sure that a GT R will make you happy but there is always a depreciation risk involved. If you really like this car, go for it but keep in mind that a sheep won't become a wolf just because it is badass. 😉

I would really, really love you to come to a trackday with Rennteam members once, you could show your talents in a much more convincing way in that environment.  I'll shut up for once and for all after that!

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

Corvette C7 Z06(Z07) manual vs AMG GT-R

Would be interesting to see the Z06(automatic gearbox) laptime...

Of course 500pds will make a difference even for an amateur driver. But 100 or 200pds? Give me a break. I am reading guys not wanting a radio or ac to save on weight. OK you get you lap time down by a fraction of a second. Seriously that's  enough foryou to inconvenience yourself driving around without a radio or AC?

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

Porker:

RC:

Porker:

RC:

Porker:

What's the excuse for the GT R being quicker, RC? There must be something wrong with it? 

It seems to be faster on one track but maybe you can get one, I come with the R8 and we can try again. 😎

Seriously: It is definetely a fast car but straight line, it can't harm the R8 and on the track, well...it comes down 90% to driver skills anyway, so I'm not worried.

Btw: It was Markus who doubted the peformance of the GT R but since this is a press car and AMG has a "history" with press cars...well...why don't you get yourself one and we can try?! 😉

So if it's down to the driver, you'll definitely have the advantage, right? 

Yes...  

You can mod a car as much as you want but in the end, it always comes down to the driver. So instead of wasting tons of money for chassis mods and whatnot, you better put this money into serious track training.

The question is only: What for? If you want to drive in the Porsche Cup or similar events, OK but for some track fun on weekends, a standard car with semi-slicks will do as well. Usually these harmless events are a lot of fun with friends. Unless you have the time and money to do proper training for whatever reasons. I would never get into professional motorsports again, it is a waste of time and money if you don't do it right.

Kidding aside, I'm very interested in the GT R as a product (don't really care how quick it is). The only thing I'm worried of on the basis of earlier GT's and GT S's is the horrendous depreciation. But given the current demand for the GT R that might be less of an issue with this model.

Not sure that a GT R will make you happy but there is always a depreciation risk involved. If you really like this car, go for it but keep in mind that a sheep won't become a wolf just because it is badass. 😉

I would really, really love you to come to a trackday with Rennteam members once, you could show your talents in a much more convincing way in that environment.  I'll shut up for once and for all after that!

I lost a bunch of "friends" on such occasions, trust me...it wouldn't be fun and you would hate me even more. 😉

There are two things I do pretty well: Driving and annoying people. 😂

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Only two? 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

RC:

Porker:

RC:

Porker:

RC:

Porker:

What's the excuse for the GT R being quicker, RC? There must be something wrong with it? 

It seems to be faster on one track but maybe you can get one, I come with the R8 and we can try again. 😎

Seriously: It is definetely a fast car but straight line, it can't harm the R8 and on the track, well...it comes down 90% to driver skills anyway, so I'm not worried.

Btw: It was Markus who doubted the peformance of the GT R but since this is a press car and AMG has a "history" with press cars...well...why don't you get yourself one and we can try?! 😉

So if it's down to the driver, you'll definitely have the advantage, right? 

Yes...  

You can mod a car as much as you want but in the end, it always comes down to the driver. So instead of wasting tons of money for chassis mods and whatnot, you better put this money into serious track training.

The question is only: What for? If you want to drive in the Porsche Cup or similar events, OK but for some track fun on weekends, a standard car with semi-slicks will do as well. Usually these harmless events are a lot of fun with friends. Unless you have the time and money to do proper training for whatever reasons. I would never get into professional motorsports again, it is a waste of time and money if you don't do it right.

Kidding aside, I'm very interested in the GT R as a product (don't really care how quick it is). The only thing I'm worried of on the basis of earlier GT's and GT S's is the horrendous depreciation. But given the current demand for the GT R that might be less of an issue with this model.

Not sure that a GT R will make you happy but there is always a depreciation risk involved. If you really like this car, go for it but keep in mind that a sheep won't become a wolf just because it is badass. 😉

I would really, really love you to come to a trackday with Rennteam members once, you could show your talents in a much more convincing way in that environment.  I'll shut up for once and for all after that!

I lost a bunch of "friends" on such occasions, trust me...it wouldn't be fun and you would hate me even more. 😉

There are two things I do pretty well: Driving and annoying people. 😂

I still like Porker 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

bluelines:

Only two? 

His sight is not 'doing something'. 

RC, you're saying you lost friends because you drove so incredibly well on a trackday? 

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

Gnil:

RC:

Porker:

RC:

Porker:

RC:

Porker:

What's the excuse for the GT R being quicker, RC? There must be something wrong with it? 

It seems to be faster on one track but maybe you can get one, I come with the R8 and we can try again. 😎

Seriously: It is definetely a fast car but straight line, it can't harm the R8 and on the track, well...it comes down 90% to driver skills anyway, so I'm not worried.

Btw: It was Markus who doubted the peformance of the GT R but since this is a press car and AMG has a "history" with press cars...well...why don't you get yourself one and we can try?! 😉

So if it's down to the driver, you'll definitely have the advantage, right? 

Yes...  

You can mod a car as much as you want but in the end, it always comes down to the driver. So instead of wasting tons of money for chassis mods and whatnot, you better put this money into serious track training.

The question is only: What for? If you want to drive in the Porsche Cup or similar events, OK but for some track fun on weekends, a standard car with semi-slicks will do as well. Usually these harmless events are a lot of fun with friends. Unless you have the time and money to do proper training for whatever reasons. I would never get into professional motorsports again, it is a waste of time and money if you don't do it right.

Kidding aside, I'm very interested in the GT R as a product (don't really care how quick it is). The only thing I'm worried of on the basis of earlier GT's and GT S's is the horrendous depreciation. But given the current demand for the GT R that might be less of an issue with this model.

Not sure that a GT R will make you happy but there is always a depreciation risk involved. If you really like this car, go for it but keep in mind that a sheep won't become a wolf just because it is badass. 😉

I would really, really love you to come to a trackday with Rennteam members once, you could show your talents in a much more convincing way in that environment.  I'll shut up for once and for all after that!

I lost a bunch of "friends" on such occasions, trust me...it wouldn't be fun and you would hate me even more. 😉

There are two things I do pretty well: Driving and annoying people. 😂

I still like Porker 

I'm an Eric-fan! 

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

Porker:

RC, you're saying you lost friends because you drove so incredibly well on a trackday? 

Right up there with Alonso, Hamilton and the boys 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFrv8wRXDv4

Y'all can pay for low weight, I just carry less gas and exercise for those NR lap records.

bluelines:

Only two? 

There are more but then you'd think I brag... 😉😎

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

noone1:

Y'all can pay for low weight, I just carry less gas and exercise for those NR lap records.

One of my best friends always drives around with maximum 20 liters of fuel or so, just in case. You wouldn't believe how often I had to bring him a fuel canister. 😡

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Guys - the car had 40HP more in Hockenheim. It doesn't say how much HP it had at the Nuerburgring. It might have been 150HP more - you never will know that. It is easy to adjust this by Software at any time. 

The Sport Auto Test tries to explain that all the magic is in the tyres. They take position towards the fraudal accusations. But they only talk about tyres, not a single word regarding power output. The 38HP extra in this car you only can read about some pages further on the dyno test. 

For me - I will not believe a word before they do all those dyno tests on a 918 and a GT-R as well the Nuerburgring Test with the same tyres on the exact same day. And best would be having a independent third party doing it instead by a magazine which needs to defend its loyalty!

Lars997:

Guys - the car had 40HP more in Hockenheim. It doesn't say how much HP it had at the Nuerburgring. It might have been 150HP more - you never will know that. It is easy to adjust this by Software at any time. 

The Sport Auto Test tries to explain that all the magic is in the tyres. They take position towards the fraudal accusations. But they only talk about tyres, not a single word regarding power output. The 38HP extra in this car you only can read about some pages further on the dyno test. 

For me - I will not believe a word before they do all those dyno tests on a 918 and a GT-R as well the Nuerburgring Test with the same tyres on the exact same day. And best would be having a independent third party doing it instead by a magazine which needs to defend its loyalty!

 

I agree - this seems to confirm that Sportauto is fully aware that they are accused of helping AMG in deceaving customers. There was not a word on how relevant these non-production, "special" tired just made for the test car were when they published the NBR test... They know they screwed up....

Engine dyno or nothing. These dyno tests are bullshit. Just look at all the nonsense and inaccurate numbers that come from tuners.

There's a reason real engineers and developers use engine dynos for determining output.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaEDmuwLpT8

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

Porker:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaEDmuwLpT8

AMG GT-R: 1:26.46
991 GT3 RS: 1:27.53

What did he say about the cars?

noone1:

Engine dyno or nothing. These dyno tests are bullshit. Just look at all the nonsense and inaccurate numbers that come from tuners.

There's a reason real engineers and developers use engine dynos for determining output.

Not if you are using a certified process with initial base measurements and constant conditions which can be adapted using variables. Not 100% accurate, there is still an error margin of 5% or so but accurate enough to COMPARE and to draw conclusions. Of course engine dyno testing is most accurate, no doubt about it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Porker:

bluelines:

Only two? 

His sight is not 'doing something'. 

RC, you're saying you lost friends because you drove so incredibly well on a trackday? 

I got too competitive... If you are fast, they admire you. When you are faster than the instructor, this becomes a problem. Then, you don't get "invited" anymore because people want fun, no competition. I realized that way too late but I found new friends I enjoy my time with. Probably because some of them are faster than me. I don't care because I can learn from them, also one is a well known pro (think F1...), so no competition here. There is always someone faster but I enjoy much more being in a group with similar or better skills because there are no ego issues. At all. 

I do not know your driving skills or the skills of others here (with a few exceptions) but I think I am pretty fast for an amateur, I usually just need a round or two to adapt. Of course I was a pro for a couple of years and like riding a bike, you never forget these skills. Actually, I think I am faster now because I am driving more rational than when I was young. 

My track days are very limited though lately (maybe twice a year if I'm lucky) but I compensate by doing some very curvy and deserted country roads which are often more tricky than tracks because they are often not clean or pretty bumpy. In Bavaria we have many small roads with a 100 kph limit but you can consider yourself lucky if you can do close to 100 kph on these roads. Great training and a lot of fun, especially with friends. There are also some very nice mountain roads in Austria and Italy but this usually requires a "lookout" driving ahead of the group to make sure there are no dangers ahead. 

Sometimes I get the chance to drive on an old airport track but since this track is often occupied by driver ed events, I usually get only an hour or two for myself. This is enough though to experience the limits of the car/tires and I have to admit I enjoy it a lot when it is raining. Did some crazy stuff there because it is pretty "open" and you can really do crazy stuff and experience the limit without having to be worried to crash the car or at least damage it (rims, etc.). 

So maybe you are faster, maybe I am but I have to admit that I found it pretty amusing when you posted that stuff regarding me meeting with you guys on the track. So if you loose, what then? Do I get a Big Kahuna medal or what? 😂 Ah, you want me to loose...I get it. 😉 

Grow up, dude... 😎

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

You lose friends because you get too competitive, but I have to grow up? 

I simply said, join us on a trackday. Not meaning to say 'I'm faster than you'. Simply wanting to state, come and join us on a trackday instead of praising yourself to heaven online?

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

1.70g in the Corners is insane. Its all about the Tires on this car. The same tyre is also used on Corvette Z06 so now its clear why its that fast. The MPSC2 ZP is above Trofeo R Grip Level.

Porker:

You lose friends because you get too competitive, but I have to grow up? 

This is in my blood, I can't help it but lately, I try to adapt rather than act. Being competitive is healthy but not desirable if your friends aren't up to it. Well, friends come and go, family stays. I guess this is the most important lesson I learned.

I simply said, join us on a trackday. Not meaning to say 'I'm faster than you'. Simply wanting to state, come and join us on a trackday instead of praising yourself to heaven online?

Yeah, right. Just a simple track day. LOL Like that Black Forest drive we had many years ago when some so called "buddies" tried to make me crash my car because I bragged about my driving. Found out later when one of the drivers got drunk and "confessed". Then there was that German 924 driver who stalked(!) me by waiting for me at my business to try to find out where I live. I lost him in a curve where he lost control and hit a sidewalk. I was in a Cayenne (955) Turbo. Later on, when I told this story on the internet, he started to threaten me and I had to call the police.

Listen, maybe you're a nice guy but I'm not here to make friends. IF I make friends, I am happy but I have so little time at my hand, I am not looking for them. Especially not on the internet. I will however join a RT meet whenever possible but only with others I know personally coming and in a "controlled" environment.

Call me paranoid but I have my experience with weirdos (not saying that you're one of them, please don't misunderstand).

I am the most honest guy you'll ever met but people don't like honesty, they like to be pampered and lied to. Not my style, I always say what I think. Some people actually appreciate it (not my wife though LOL).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)