Crown

I also don't see how a "960" would seriously 911 sales if Porsche gives the "960" the proper two-seater setup and of course a higher price tag. Porsche shouldn't offer a low powered base model of the "960", they should start with a 600+ hp version and maybe go up from there... Only the 991 Turbo S could be hurt but otherwise, the 911 is a completely different model for a slightly different audience. 

I think that not offering a "960" is a political decision within VW Group because the 960 would cannibalize from the R8 and Huracan.

I stick to my belief that the R8 doesn't make much sense at Audi, the RS models would be enough to "promote" the brand.

It is interesting to note that my Audi dealership and another dealership in Germany are part of a new marketing "experiment" to offer R8 customers a different (and highly improved) service, with a direct contact only for R8 customers. So Audi wants to take the R8 ownership to the next level and I guess they know why. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

I think that not offering a "960" is a political decision within VW Group because the 960 would cannibalize from the R8 and Huracan.
 

That's what I've never understood. How the hell can VW Group gives preference to Audi's sportcar rather than Porsche's one? With all due respect but what kind of silly move is that? Which is the company that has all this racing heritage? I'm with you on this one, they should switch off the r8 program and give green light to the middle-engine P.

Also, is the R8 such a big success? What is its impact in the financial balance? For me Audi is what it is, a sedan maker with the best sporty station wagons out there, period. They should stick to this and not trying to reinvent the wheel in other segments, even when they are part of a group where other companies already has experience on it.

alexalex88:

RC:

I think that not offering a "960" is a political decision within VW Group because the 960 would cannibalize from the R8 and Huracan.
 

That's what I've never understood. How the hell can VW Group gives preference to Audi's sportcar rather than Porsche's one? With all due respect but what kind of silly move is that? Which is the company that has all this racing heritage? I'm with you on this one, they should switch off the r8 program and give green light to the middle-engine P.

Also, is the R8 such a big success? What is its impact in the financial balance? For me Audi is what it is, a sedan maker with the best sporty station wagons out there, period. They should stick to this and not trying to reinvent the wheel in other segments, even when they are part of a group where other companies already has experience on it.

This is actually interesting: Yes, the R8 is a success (for such a car class) but it is actually not built by Audi but Quattro GmbH. Also, it is an open secret that Porsche was deeply involved with the new R8 development but unfortunately it was too late to use Porsche's new sportscar platform which is "adjustable", incl. a mid engined variant because the new R8 development was too far already and they couldn't switch to the new platform, especially because of the Huracan which came out earlier than the new R8.

Long story short: The R8 may not survive this model generation or it could be continued on the new Porsche sportscar platform (which could be used for the next generation 911 as well). 

My personal opinion: As long as the R8 uses the fantastic V10 and Porsche would use a bi-turbo charged V8 for their "960", I doubt that the Porsche has the chance of being a success, especially at a higher price. So the R8 will probably go or will use the same platform with it's third generation.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

I also don't see how a "960" would seriously 911 sales if Porsche gives the "960" the proper two-seater setup and of course a higher price tag. Porsche shouldn't offer a low powered base model of the "960", they should start with a 600+ hp version and maybe go up from there... Only the 991 Turbo S could be hurt but otherwise, the 911 is a completely different model for a slightly different audience. 

I think that not offering a "960" is a political decision within VW Group because the 960 would cannibalize from the R8 and Huracan.

I stick to my belief that the R8 doesn't make much sense at Audi, the RS models would be enough to "promote" the brand.

It is interesting to note that my Audi dealership and another dealership in Germany are part of a new marketing "experiment" to offer R8 customers a different (and highly improved) service, with a direct contact only for R8 customers. So Audi wants to take the R8 ownership to the next level and I guess they know why. 

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

 

One thing you all forget to understand is that the 911 is an old design compared to the FF and F12, if Ferrari kept on making very minor changes to the 456 and brought out a car like the F12 (both with similar performance) the 456 wont sell one bit. Porsche knows this very well, any mid-engined Porsche with same performance with 911 will kill the 911 instantly thats why they distance the 918 from the whole range.

RC, yourself if you will still buy a 911 if Porsche offer a mid-engine alternative with similar performance and at a reasonable price...I'm sure you won't !

Italo:

RC:

I also don't see how a "960" would seriously 911 sales if Porsche gives the "960" the proper two-seater setup and of course a higher price tag. Porsche shouldn't offer a low powered base model of the "960", they should start with a 600+ hp version and maybe go up from there... Only the 991 Turbo S could be hurt but otherwise, the 911 is a completely different model for a slightly different audience. 

I think that not offering a "960" is a political decision within VW Group because the 960 would cannibalize from the R8 and Huracan.

I stick to my belief that the R8 doesn't make much sense at Audi, the RS models would be enough to "promote" the brand.

It is interesting to note that my Audi dealership and another dealership in Germany are part of a new marketing "experiment" to offer R8 customers a different (and highly improved) service, with a direct contact only for R8 customers. So Audi wants to take the R8 ownership to the next level and I guess they know why. 

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

 

One thing you all forget to understand is that the 911 is an old design compared to the FF and F12, if Ferrari kept on making very minor changes to the 456 and brought out a car like the F12 (both with similar performance) the 456 wont sell one bit. Porsche knows this very well, any mid-engined Porsche with same performance with 911 will kill the 911 instantly thats why they distance the 918 from the whole range.

RC, yourself if you will still buy a 911 if Porsche offer a mid-engine alternative with similar performance and at a reasonable price...I'm sure you won't !

 

I am a different type of customer right now, I was looking for a weekend toy, not a daily driver.

Many 911 buyers in Germany prefer the "stealth" look of the classic 911 shape, the rear seats and of course the daily driver capabilities. Just yesterday I met two young guys in a 911 Targa, don't know if this was their car or one of their dad's car but the car had no sound whatsoever, it was completely muted. Car had no sport exhaust! We talked a few minutes at the fuel station and they clearly loved the Targa for the comfort and classy look. None of them was older than 30 years old and most 911 owners over here are 40 or older, so you can imagine what kind of customer you are looking at. I love my 991 C4 GTS Cab as a daily driver and it is a fantastic car but after the R8, I couldn't own a 911 (with the exception of a GT3 RS or GT2 RS) as a weekend toy car. Impossible.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Just heard today that red brake calipers will be optional for the R8, this option should be soon in the Audi catalogue. 

Makes sense, the current silver (front) and gold (rear) ones don't make any sense. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Surprising this feature won't be available on the R8: When Will Traffic Lights Turn Green? Some Audi Cars Now Know

That means every traffic light will be a christmas tree for drag strip.

Bad idea.

apias:

Surprising this feature won't be available on the R8: When Will Traffic Lights Turn Green? Some Audi Cars Now Know

Interesting feature but I really don't understand how this can help with...anything. 

The latest gen Audi MMI already used real time information to predict driving time and arrival time, this is good enough for me. It works pretty well, especially when there are accidents. Hated to see "delay 40 min." when I was driving on the Autobahn and it was right, exactly 40 minutes delay due to an accident a coupe of kilometers in front of me.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

I don't need to know when the light is going to turn green. I need to know when cross traffic is going to quit entering the intersection. It is quite shocking to frequently see how far people will push the limit. Freshly turned red is the new yellow.

Many may not realize that in Europe you go from red to yellow to green. So it is like a drag racing Christmas tree already. In the US the lights go from red to green directly. 

RC:

Just heard today that red brake calipers will be optional for the R8, this option should be soon in the Audi catalogue. 

Makes sense, the current silver (front) and gold (rear) ones don't make any sense. 

They are already an option,  but only for standard model without Ceramics.

New option is so called Black optics which contains front grill fully in Black.

RC:

I get so much positive feedback with the car, it is incredible.

Just yesterday, while driving around for two hours with my son, we got several thumbs up from complete strangers, out of cars, from bikers, from the sidewalk, really amazing. Two bicycle riders at a stop light came over and asked if I can rev the engine and a scooter rider with his girlfriend told me that it is amazing how the flaps are opening and the brutal sound gets louder... A motorcycle rider on the Autobahn, he was faster than me (but not my much) showed thumbs up when a speed limit came and I passed him (he was riding slower than the speed limit), don't know why because he was faster and so on... Really positive feedback, maybe because this is an Audi? 

The revving the engine thing seems to be a problem...at least once or twice a day I get someone shouting over from another car (or from the sidewalk), asking me to rev the engine. I don't want to end up on YouTube doing that, so I usually don't do it (especially if that particular person has a phone ready to take a video) but while it is flattering, it is also getting annoying. My wife didn't like the attention too much, she said people are nuts. 

Overall, I like this car more and more... 

Now you know the attraction of Ferrari. And yes it does get old.

To learn how to live is to learn how to hang on. To learn how to die is to learn how to let go.

He will be fine.  He signals!

RC - that R8 of your sounds incredible!  Have I mentioned that?

KresoF1:

RC:

Just heard today that red brake calipers will be optional for the R8, this option should be soon in the Audi catalogue. 

Makes sense, the current silver (front) and gold (rear) ones don't make any sense. 

They are already an option,  but only for standard model without Ceramics.

New option is so called Black optics which contains front grill fully in Black.

I asked my dealer this morning, no such option available for the regular model with 540 hp in Germany. 

That optical package Titanium Black is already available for the new (European) MY 2017 cars (since July), true.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Leawood911:

He will be fine.  He signals!

RC - that R8 of your sounds incredible!  Have I mentioned that?

Thank you.  Yes, amazing sound, can't get tired of it. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

http://www.audi.de/dam/nemo/models/misc/pdf/my-2017/preislisten/preisliste_r8-coupe_r8-spyder.pdf

Bremssattel, rot glänzende lackiert code PC2 500€ mit Mwst.

KresoF1:

http://www.audi.de/dam/nemo/models/misc/pdf/my-2017/preislisten/preisliste_r8-coupe_r8-spyder.pdf

Bremssattel, rot glänzende lackiert code PC2 500€ mit Mwst.

Sorry, I overlooked the last part of your post "without ceramics".

I was referring to optional red brake calipers for the ceramic brake system, maybe I should have been more precise (the V10 Plus has the ceramics as a standard option, so i assumed it is clear that I mean the ceramic brake only).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

The R8 V10 has that fun sound and that adds a lot.

991.2's have no quotient of ''fun'' only a very serious options list.

JimFlat6:

The R8 V10 has that fun sound and that adds a lot.

991.2's have no quotient of ''fun'' only a very serious options list.

I am not so sure why many people complain so much about the fun provided by the latest 911 generation...

I just did some long drives (1500km in total) on the Autobahn, on beautiful country roads - mostly with the top down in the turbo s cabrio. Compared to all sports cars I know in depth (Ferrari and Porsches) the fun level of this car is at the highest point I can think of. The 997-GT2/GT2RS models are slightly more precise in terms of drive-feel (as they had far less electronics at this time, this no longer applies to current GT models though). Ferrari is not more precise but more flashy. But this car, the turbo s cabriolet, is just perfection and provides tons of fun.

The car is perfect Jekyll-Hide: comfortable, practical, a bit understated - and the next second super fast and efficient (the GT2RS is not any faster I would say). I also love the sound: modest in the city (in normal mode), but a lot of sound under full throttle or in sports mode. The interaction of gearbox and engine, the rear-axle steering, the whole handling experience, how all this is possible in a cabriolet that feels nearly 100% like a coupe when closed, the PCM, the Burmester sound system, the LED adaptive lights - all this is so excellent. This car is a major achievement by Porsche 

MKSGR:

 

I am not so sure why many people complain so much about the fun provided by the latest 911 generation...

I just did some long drives (1500km in total) on the Autobahn, on beautiful country roads - mostly with the top down in the turbo s cabrio. Compared to all sports cars I know in depth (Ferrari and Porsches) the fun level of this car is at the highest point I can think of. The 997-GT2/GT2RS models are slightly more precise in terms of drive-feel (as they had far less electronics at this time, this no longer applies to current GT models though). Ferrari is not more precise but more flashy. But this car, the turbo s cabriolet, is just perfection and provides tons of fun.

The car is perfect Jekyll-Hide: comfortable, practical, a bit understated - and the next second super fast and efficient (the GT2RS is not any faster I would say). I also love the sound: modest in the city (in normal mode), but a lot of sound under full throttle or in sports mode. The interaction of gearbox and engine, the rear-axle steering, the whole handling experience, how all this is possible in a cabriolet that feels nearly 100% like a coupe when closed, the PCM, the Burmester sound system, the LED adaptive lights - all this is so excellent. This car is a major achievement by Porsche 

what a praise !!  Specially coming from someone who had a GT2 as a DD !  It makes me want to try one, even if I am not a cab fan at all 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

MKSGR:

JimFlat6:

The R8 V10 has that fun sound and that adds a lot.

991.2's have no quotient of ''fun'' only a very serious options list.

I am not so sure why many people complain so much about the fun provided by the latest 911 generation...

I just did some long drives (1500km in total) on the Autobahn, on beautiful country roads - mostly with the top down in the turbo s cabrio. Compared to all sports cars I know in depth (Ferrari and Porsches) the fun level of this car is at the highest point I can think of. The 997-GT2/GT2RS models are slightly more precise in terms of drive-feel (as they had far less electronics at this time, this no longer applies to current GT models though). Ferrari is not more precise but more flashy. But this car, the turbo s cabriolet, is just perfection and provides tons of fun.

The car is perfect Jekyll-Hide: comfortable, practical, a bit understated - and the next second super fast and efficient (the GT2RS is not any faster I would say). I also love the sound: modest in the city (in normal mode), but a lot of sound under full throttle or in sports mode. The interaction of gearbox and engine, the rear-axle steering, the whole handling experience, how all this is possible in a cabriolet that feels nearly 100% like a coupe when closed, the PCM, the Burmester sound system, the LED adaptive lights - all this is so excellent. This car is a major achievement by Porsche 

The Cab certainly makes a difference since you get some of the sound much better "outside" the car...

Yes, technically, the 991.2 Turbo S is a masterpiece, no doubt about it but I think you should try a new R8 V10 Plus just for once, you'd be surprised. It is basically a 991.2 Turbo S with emotions going upside down on a full scale. Not a car you want as a daily driver though because it attracts too much attention. I could never drive to work in this car.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Pretty interesting fact I got today from my Audi mechanic (who is also a Lambo mechanic): Apparently the MY2016 Lamborghini Huracan gets the "new" second generation Dynamic Steering from the current R8. Older cars have a first generation Dynamic Steering, which is not as sophisticated as the new one. Which proves again how much tech both cars share.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

MKSGR:

JimFlat6:

The R8 V10 has that fun sound and that adds a lot.

991.2's have no quotient of ''fun'' only a very serious options list.

I am not so sure why many people complain so much about the fun provided by the latest 911 generation...

I just did some long drives (1500km in total) on the Autobahn, on beautiful country roads - mostly with the top down in the turbo s cabrio. Compared to all sports cars I know in depth (Ferrari and Porsches) the fun level of this car is at the highest point I can think of. The 997-GT2/GT2RS models are slightly more precise in terms of drive-feel (as they had far less electronics at this time, this no longer applies to current GT models though). Ferrari is not more precise but more flashy. But this car, the turbo s cabriolet, is just perfection and provides tons of fun.

The car is perfect Jekyll-Hide: comfortable, practical, a bit understated - and the next second super fast and efficient (the GT2RS is not any faster I would say). I also love the sound: modest in the city (in normal mode), but a lot of sound under full throttle or in sports mode. The interaction of gearbox and engine, the rear-axle steering, the whole handling experience, how all this is possible in a cabriolet that feels nearly 100% like a coupe when closed, the PCM, the Burmester sound system, the LED adaptive lights - all this is so excellent. This car is a major achievement by Porsche 

The Cab certainly makes a difference since you get some of the sound much better "outside" the car...

Yes, technically, the 991.2 Turbo S is a masterpiece, no doubt about it but I think you should try a new R8 V10 Plus just for once, you'd be surprised. It is basically a 991.2 Turbo S with emotions going upside down on a full scale. Not a car you want as a daily driver though because it attracts too much attention. I could never drive to work in this car.

I will try the car  Would be interesting to test the spider version though (that will be launched soon, right)?

Gnil:

MKSGR:

 

I am not so sure why many people complain so much about the fun provided by the latest 911 generation...

I just did some long drives (1500km in total) on the Autobahn, on beautiful country roads - mostly with the top down in the turbo s cabrio. Compared to all sports cars I know in depth (Ferrari and Porsches) the fun level of this car is at the highest point I can think of. The 997-GT2/GT2RS models are slightly more precise in terms of drive-feel (as they had far less electronics at this time, this no longer applies to current GT models though). Ferrari is not more precise but more flashy. But this car, the turbo s cabriolet, is just perfection and provides tons of fun.

The car is perfect Jekyll-Hide: comfortable, practical, a bit understated - and the next second super fast and efficient (the GT2RS is not any faster I would say). I also love the sound: modest in the city (in normal mode), but a lot of sound under full throttle or in sports mode. The interaction of gearbox and engine, the rear-axle steering, the whole handling experience, how all this is possible in a cabriolet that feels nearly 100% like a coupe when closed, the PCM, the Burmester sound system, the LED adaptive lights - all this is so excellent. This car is a major achievement by Porsche 

what a praise !!  Specially coming from someone who had a GT2 as a DD !  It makes me want to try one, even if I am not a cab fan at all 

Maybe you will also get a fan of the turbo s concept 

Saw many TTS on the road and have yet to hear the engine 

SciFrog:

Saw many TTS on the road and have yet to hear the engine 

Under full acceleration, the TTS doesn't sound that bad, especially if you drive the cab but it is more of a loud whoosh sound than a loud race car sound. Unfortunately, I drove mine most of the time at lower speeds and/or rev figures, so the excitement was quite limited. In my R8, I get goosebumps even at 50 kph and under 3000 rpm (well, with the windows open, the R8 has a pretty good sound insulation but if you let both windows down...oh boy, pure aural sex ). Over 4000-5000 rpm, no need to open the windows, the sound is infernally loud. Especially outside...people turn heads when I am still a couple of hundreds of meters away from them.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Full acceleration? Speed limit are 40mph and half the drivers are woman. My Macan probably sounds better...

SciFrog:

Full acceleration? Speed limit are 40mph and half the drivers are woman. My Macan probably sounds better...

This is what I am talking about...Porsche needs to give their cars emotions even at lower speeds and rev figures. The GT models are pretty close to that achievement and maybe the cabs with sport exhaust but the 911 Turbo/Turbo S? I'm afraid...  

However, I have to agree with Markus on one thing: As a daily driver super sportscar, the 991.2 Turbo S Cab is probably unbeatable. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

SciFrog:

Full acceleration? Speed limit are 40mph and half the drivers are woman. My Macan probably sounds better...

 

I would not own a sportscar if I drove below 40mph most of the time... That is boring even with some loud noise. For that use better get a comfortable sedan