Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: german ams magazine M5 test - Page1

Oct 27, 2004 11:38:32 AM

Rookie: Co-Pilot; Loc: Berlin, Germany; Posts: 268, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 12, 2002

german ams magazine M5 test

Hi,

AMS tested M5 and CLS AMG back to back ... here are the numbers:

0-100 km/h M5 4,7 CLS 4,7 sec
0-160 km/h M5 10,0 CLS 10,3
0-180 km/h M5 12,2 CLS 12,8
0-200 km/h M5 14,8 CLS 15,5

Breaking from 190 km/h to 0 km/h = M5 137m CLS 139m (cold brakes)

18m Slalom (unloaded) = M5 65,3 km/h CLS 62,9 km/h
ISO-Slalom (unloaded) = M5 = 138,5 km/h CLS 136,6 km/h

Not bad ... CLS wins the test against the M5 because of better comfort and less fuel consumption .. at the same time its not really less fast ??!!

Funny ... the CLS even wins the chapter "powertrain" by 77 to 71 points ???

Greetz

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Oct 27, 2004 12:50:20 PM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: Rookie

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

M5 is disappointing. Too bad for M fans.

I can't believe they chose CLS! But it must be the better car.

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Oct 27, 2004 1:20:35 PM

J.Seven: Rennteam Master; Loc: Estoril , Portugal; Posts: 3201, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2002; Reply to: Rookie

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

The AMS M5 results were far worst than the ones made by another German magazine who made 13,9Sec to 200Kph.
Amazing results for the CLS.

J.Seven

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Oct 27, 2004 1:52:42 PM

OAB: Co-Pilot; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 155, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 16, 2003; Reply to: Rookie

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

We all know that the supercharged Mercs go very well. And we all know that the Mercs tested often have more than the stated 476hp. The K55 engines in the E/CLS have probably the same 500hp than in the SL anyway before they start selecting "the better ones" for the press

Around 14 secs for the sprint to 200 is as fast as a 996TT , so why should M5 buyers be disappointed.

I am disappointed that my "sportscar" 996C2 - which was more expensive than the M5 by the way - gets slaughtered by it.

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Oct 27, 2004 7:50:29 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: OAB

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
OAB said:
Around 14 secs for the sprint to 200 is as fast as a 996TT , so why should M5 buyers be disappointed.

Because the tested M5 did it in only 14.8 secs, not in 14

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Oct 27, 2004 7:51:47 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

mercedes has recently announced that it will abandon supercharging, even though they were pioneers, and very good at it...

the recent advances in turbo technology, especially hybrid turbos, have made the supercharger more or less obsolete.

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Oct 27, 2004 8:19:16 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59589, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: OAB

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
OAB said:
We all know that the supercharged Mercs go very well. And we all know that the Mercs tested often have more than the stated 476hp. The K55 engines in the E/CLS have probably the same 500hp than in the SL anyway before they start selecting "the better ones" for the press

Around 14 secs for the sprint to 200 is as fast as a 996TT , so why should M5 buyers be disappointed.

I am disappointed that my "sportscar" 996C2 - which was more expensive than the M5 by the way - gets slaughtered by it.

A sportscar defines itself by Autobahn performance only? Interesting. Maybe you should have bought something else?

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Oct 27, 2004 8:45:49 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
RC said:
...A sportscar defines itself by Autobahn performance only? Interesting. Maybe you should have bought something else?

Exactly my thought - the handling numbers look far better for the M5 than for the CLS.

Of course acc. times to 60 or 100 are considerably close since traction will make a much bigger difference than a couple of hp more or less...

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Oct 27, 2004 8:49:09 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59589, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rookie

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Let me see, let's take the 997 Carrera (not S!) from the same AMS issue as a comparison:

Braking distance to full stop from 190 kph to O kph:
BMW M5 - 137 m
Mercedes CLS 55 AMG - 139 m
997 Carrera - 130 m
The 997 Carrera comes 7 meters earlier to a stop which tells a lot about the braking performance. And this is only the "standard" 997 brake, not the Turbo brake and not the PCCB brake. In the same AMS issue, there is a brake system comparison between different cars and the 997 Carrera S PCCB system "plays in a different class" as AMS claims.

Handling Performance
ISO Handling test:
BMW M5 - 138,5 kph
CLS 55 AMG - 136,6 kph
997 Carrera - 141,9 kph

18 m Slalom:
BMW M5 - 65,3 kph
CLS 55 AMG - 62,9 kph
997 Carrera - 66,8 kph

And from 0-100 mph (160 kph), the "monster" engine equipped M5 and CLS55 gain only around 1 second compared to the 997 Carrera (not S!).

No doubt, especially the new M5 is the hell of a sports limousine, I don't deny that. But it is no sports car.
I owned a E 55 AMG for a couple of months and I really loved it. The engine was powerful and it was fun to see other drivers being surprised about it's performance.
But I realized that I'm "only" 39 years old and I ended up in a limousine like my 65-year old dad 15 years ago. No thanks. The E 55 lacked charisma, something was missing, something "special". And traction was horrible, I can't imagine the new CLS 55 is much better. Not to speak about the CLS 55's optical appearance, I saw two cars in Germany and it looks HUGE, bigger than a Mercedes S class. Ouch.

When I exchanged my E55 with a Porsche Cayenne Turbo, I suddenly felt that special feel again, something I can't describe. But of course the Cayenne Turbo is no sports car, so I'm happy I finally ended up with a 997 Carrera S.

So whoever plays with the idea to go for the new M5 or CLS55, think very well about it and take your time.
Also testdrive a Carrera S for comparison or maybe a GT3.
And if you need the extra interior room (family, kids), you won't be 100% satisfied as I wasn't satisfied with the E55 with two kids.

You want a sportscar? Fine, take a Porsche or Ferrari.
You want to be fast but you NEED a limousine: go for the M5.
But whoever thinks the M5 is a sportscar because it has that kind of straight line performance, should set his preferences straight. I can drive a limousine when I'm 60, right now I want to enjoy life and have fun. SUV for the family (with some extra power and "feel" for Daddy

) and the sportscar for Daddy only.

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Oct 27, 2004 8:54:03 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
RC said:
...In the same AMS issue, there is a brake system comparison between different cars and the 997 Carrera S PCCB system "plays in a different class" as AMS claims.
...

Finally Porsche conquered back the crown in braking! Very good to see...

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Oct 27, 2004 10:24:03 PM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

No-one is disputing the braking/handling/feel of a Porsche is ordinary,they're in a different class, a class that includes Lamborghini and Ferrari too. So Porsche facts and abilities should stay in that class and not be compared to near 2000kg 4 door cars. If the M fans think that the M5 is in the same league as Porsche and Ferrari's, they must be mad, but then again 8.00 mins on the Nring isn't exactly bad....so they may have a point in making comparisons.

Rennteam is mostly Porsche biased, there's no doubt, you can see it in the number of forums, the number of posts comparing Porsches to all other cars in the world...

And since the AMG forum is closing down, and the M5 is no sportscar, why does someone bother posting this M5/CLS AMS article in the first place?

Pointless.

My days at rennteam are numbered....

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Oct 27, 2004 10:53:20 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Bilal

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
...My days at rennteam are numbered....

Bilal, what's wrong with you?

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Oct 27, 2004 11:03:53 PM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Nothing Ferdie. The AMG forum is about to close, I hardly ever venture into the Porsche or Ferrari forums, how idiotic I'll look when I post AMG stuff in the sportscar forums?

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Oct 28, 2004 4:20:40 AM

TopherV: Veteran; Loc: Orange County, Southern California; Posts: 1121, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 29, 2003; Reply to: Bilal

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Nothing Ferdie. The AMG forum is about to close, I hardly ever venture into the Porsche or Ferrari forums, how idiotic I'll look when I post AMG stuff in the sportscar forums?

I dont think you'll look anything less of an enthusiast.

Ill be looking forward to your updates on Benz when the AMG board closes -

stay gangsta

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Oct 28, 2004 6:05:04 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21151, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: TopherV

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

I'll be looking forward to your updates on Benz as well Bilal

there may not be an AMG specific forum but there is still the sportcar forum for it, just like for BMW or Aston.

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Oct 28, 2004 9:51:27 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Exactly my opinion. Not stupid at all to post on the Sportscar forum. I have to admit that it is way too many forums on this board right now and people might get lost a little bit. I have a tough time to find post from a couple days ago because they might be hidden in one of the thousand Porsche boards...

I am curious how the Boxster and 997 boards will develop ones the initial hype will cool down.

Greetings!

P.S. Bilal, stay with us!

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Oct 28, 2004 10:53:55 AM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Well, if you guys want Merc news, I guess I could stay...

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Oct 28, 2004 6:26:27 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Bilal

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Well, if you guys want Merc news, I guess I could stay...

Bilal, we are all quite keen on Merc news!

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Oct 28, 2004 7:35:59 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21151, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Bilal

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Well, if you guys want Merc news, I guess I could stay...

Glad to hear that!

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Oct 28, 2004 8:28:49 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59589, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Bilal

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Nothing Ferdie. The AMG forum is about to close, I hardly ever venture into the Porsche or Ferrari forums, how idiotic I'll look when I post AMG stuff in the sportscar forums?

Bilal, the only reason we close the AMG forum is the fact, that we don't have a moderator who owns an AMG Mercedes to be able to run this forum. I still get a lot of AMG infos but I'm usually too busy to post them or they aren't interesting for me anymore.

If some AMG owners still think that we should keep the AMG forum alive, we might do that. But we need somebody to help us, somebody who has lots of infos, pictures, etc. and somebody who really knows what he is talking about. Not easy to find such a person.

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Oct 29, 2004 6:17:49 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Carlos,

insane graemlin features in your post! Can you proivde me the link to them?

RC,

since Bilal will probably own an AMG Mercedes once he's in the appropriate position he could run the Merc forum...

No, honestly we should recall the Sportscar board to Sportscar and -limo board and have much more traffic on that single one.

Just my 02 cents.

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Oct 29, 2004 6:42:34 PM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Ferdie, I like how you think friend

But seriously, I don't have an AMG and I could never moderate a forum. Now, you can close the forum for these reasons, but a sportscar and limo forum, I like that

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Oct 29, 2004 8:22:34 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21151, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
Ferdie said:
Carlos,

insane graemlin features in your post! Can you proivde me the link to them?

Ferdie, its a gif image I attached to the post. So no link but you can click save as and download it

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Oct 30, 2004 12:31:43 AM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: Bilal

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Well, if you guys want Merc news, I guess I could stay...

You can always post ML news on the Cayenne Board. That would be an appropiate place for news of that Mercedes model. The ML and X5 are the most natural competitors to the Cayenne and I like to keep up with developments of those vehicles.

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Oct 30, 2004 11:33:22 AM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Gm Austin, your Cayenne-owning "330" is a master at posting pics of such vehicles. He already has an ML thread open there with the latest spypics.

If you wanna follow the spypics and stuff of all upcoming cars..

http://carspyshots.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=spy&start=0

Here's the entire ML thread....

http://carspyshots.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=spy&action=display&num=1077193711

Just briefly read through it, it says the ML AMG will have 460bhp and 600NM, 7G Tronic, option of composite brakes and a sport exhaust...

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Oct 30, 2004 12:04:51 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: Bilal

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Yes, 330 is the undisputed master of spypics and images of all kinds.

But, he rarely has much text to go with it.

I'm just letting you know you're invited to post Mercedes ML info there if you have an interest in that product.

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Oct 30, 2004 1:42:29 PM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Not a particular 4X4 fan myself. (That high centre of gravity puts me off, dynamics and comfort wise) but for you, if I see any new info, the Cayenne owners will be the first to know about it, not that they care much, maybe the ML63 will change that somehow....

Thanks.

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Oct 31, 2004 3:54:12 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59589, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Bilal

Re: german ams magazine M5 test

Quote:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Not a particular 4X4 fan myself. (That high centre of gravity puts me off, dynamics and comfort wise) but for you, if I see any new info, the Cayenne owners will be the first to know about it, not that they care much, maybe the ML63 will change that somehow....

Thanks.

Goal No.1: convincing you that Porsche rocks
Goal No.2: convincing you that the Cayenne rocks
Goal No.3: avoiding upsetting too many AMG owners

You should drive the Cayenne to "understand" it. I recommend the Cayenne Turbo for a first ride and you'll be a "believer", especially driving dynamics.

Then, I'd recommend driving the new Powerkit Turbo which isn't only more powerful and has bigger brakes but also has some suspension mods which make the car even more dynamic.

I just hope AMG does the same with the new AMG ML. But I actually don't have a doubt about it because I already heard that the new AMG ML will have an adjustable suspension system similar to the Cayenne.

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