Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Top Gear 997 S video - Page1

Oct 25, 2004 7:04:17 AM

sergini: Veteran; Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy; Posts: 1163, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 12, 2003

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

I watched this last night on BBC2 and I have to say I thought it was a remarkably poor piece of motoring journalism. I am sure Tiff will make up for it tonight.....

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Oct 25, 2004 8:16:20 AM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: sergini

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Thanx Sergini.

I thought it was quite funny, especially the new/old discussion at the very end.

Clarkson does, as always, have a different view on things than most others. But I think we need that as well, someone to question and challenge what the carmakers come up with, and not just go "Oooooh Aaaaah - best 911 ever...."

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Oct 25, 2004 8:56:52 AM

robbo: Pilot; Loc: essex, uk; Posts: 319, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 11, 2004; Reply to: temm

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Agree dreamcar ,Clarkson and Top Gear is gradually losing credibility with this sort of crap test ,he didnt say much about the car itself,just made loads of jokes about how he couldnt tell the difference between the old and new 911 - hilarious not

Top Gear was originally a serious car programme for car enthusiasts ,but now it is just aimed at the general public ,who probably find if funny when Clarkson takes the mickey out of Porsche ,Ferrari,etc.
Fifth Gear on channel 5 tonight should be a much better car test by Tiff .Dont get me wrong i will always watch Top Gear and i do find Clarkson funny but he needs to be more serious when testing the cars,and leave all the bullshit for the studio

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Oct 25, 2004 9:12:35 AM

RichJ: Veteran; Loc: London, England; Posts: 846, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: robbo

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Yup agree with you there Robbo, too much rubbish in my hour of Top gear now. Ice cream vans jumping bouncy castles.... Mmmmmm Perhaps mildly amusing but I'd rather have had an extra 10 minutes of the 911 thank you very much!!!
Fifth is ok, but too short. They need to give it an hour like top gear or have it on twice a week! Actually no, it should be on every day!!!

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Oct 25, 2004 9:17:10 AM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: sergini

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Quote:
sergini said:
poor Clarkson .....he need a lot of psicopharmacs (and maybe cialis) ,

Porsche 911
57Mb
http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/T...sche_911_hi.wmv

27 Mb
http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/T...sche_911_lo.wmv

Can't get the link to work

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Oct 25, 2004 9:34:12 AM

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Netherlands; Posts: 8054, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2004; Reply to: crayphile

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

And then there is the crap talking! They invited god-knows-who to tell that they went to the workshop on saturdaynights... BOOOOORRRRIIINNNGGGG... I was watching the shwo with some friends, and I had to force them not to zap to another channel, even though they are car enthusiasts... too much in it that has nothing to do with cars... And the totally biased review on the 997... I even went as far as writing to topgear that it was crap, and that I wanted a review by richard hammond and a supercar lap on a dry cirquit...
Too bad I can't watch 5th gear in Holland.
-Joost-

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Oct 25, 2004 11:14:53 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: Joost

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

i hate this guy ,and his humor..not watching it anymore

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Oct 25, 2004 11:46:59 AM

sergini: Veteran; Loc: Italy -Bologna , Italy; Posts: 1163, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 12, 2003; Reply to: crayphile

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

sorry the link is changed :

try form here : http://www.sleepy-fish.com/other_veh.htm

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Oct 25, 2004 11:51:30 AM

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Netherlands; Posts: 8054, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2004; Reply to: sergini

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

ok, for those of you who want a rebound:
At flat six we started sending them messages about what we liked and disliked about last episode... the more join, the more hope on a result!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/ and then "contact us"
-Joost-

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Oct 25, 2004 12:16:44 PM

med: Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 394, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 4, 2004; Reply to: Joost

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

What's the point in testing a car on a drenched track and recording the time within a league of other cars tested in varied conditions? I was really looking forward to the program but Clarkson said nothing about the car just waffle...Just like the newspaper article in the times, all waffle with hardly any detail, trouble is he can influence people, the mans dangerous. oh.. and apparently I'm a middleclass slim bloke with no mates....and he's a 24 karat prick

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Oct 25, 2004 2:49:52 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: sergini

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Quote:
sergini said:
sorry the link is changed :

try form here : http://www.sleepy-fish.com/other_veh.htm

Thanks Sergini. I missed it last night. Having seen it I can see why people are upset. Clarkson has become a caricature of his own public persona, and TopGear is fast becoming an comedy/ entertainment show rather than a motoring programme

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Oct 25, 2004 3:24:23 PM

BMCG: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 28, 2003; Reply to: crayphile

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Ahh...this is just Clarkson being...well himself...

Remarkably praiseworthy of the new car...especially if you consider his rather less than flattering remarks regarding the 993...

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Oct 25, 2004 4:46:40 PM

Gaz: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, England; Posts: 246, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 4, 2004; Reply to: crayphile

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

I agree - this is now "The Jeremy Clarkson show". Who cares how many bouncy castles an ice cream van can jump over!

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Oct 25, 2004 5:39:35 PM

Alex18_996CC: Rennteam Master; Loc: Madrid , Spain; Posts: 3218, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2004; Reply to: sergini

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Thnx Sergini. I was going to that web page each week to see if they updated the video, and now you did the work for me thnx!!!. Keep it up!!!

I'm now downloading it!!. Can't wait to see it!!!

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Oct 25, 2004 7:47:43 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: sergini

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

For those of you who do not like Clarkston please tell me what he said wasn't correct about the 997S. He indicated it was a terrific performing car. Of course he had to comment regarding the styling. Just about every car magazine has also stated the same the 997; good performer; nothing new in styling...retro design.

Face facts and accept what is obvious. Car and Driver said it best regarding styling; only the hardcore Porschephiles will notice your in a new 997.

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Oct 25, 2004 8:15:30 PM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

The great thing is that styling is highly subjective and easily assessed by the prospective buyer, so I ignore any comments in this regard.

I'm interested in reading about the car's performance. . . and how it actually feels achieving that performance. From this perspecitve, even Clarkson is in awe, completely in line with other major publications.

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Oct 25, 2004 9:36:52 PM

Joost: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Dordrecht , Netherlands; Posts: 8054, Gallery; Registered on: May 3, 2004; Reply to: crayphile

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Quote:
crayphile said:
Quote:
sergini said:
sorry the link is changed :

try form here : http://www.sleepy-fish.com/other_veh.htm

Thanks Sergini. I missed it last night. Having seen it I can see why people are upset. Clarkson has become a caricature of his own public persona, and TopGear is fast becoming an comedy/ entertainment show rather than a motoring programme

Comedy show... lol. At Flat-6, one of our dear mods told us to "chill down, topgear is just comedy"
I do hope he was trying to help us get over it

-Joost-

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Oct 25, 2004 10:17:30 PM

MSB: Junior; Loc: Abu Dhabi , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 71, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2002; Reply to: Joost

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

I don't know why you guys think this way of the show, but I love his shows, and I think he is funny. I think you guys don't like him because he keeps criticizing porsches and that he prefers ferrari. British journalism is the best ie EVO, BBC..

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Oct 25, 2004 10:30:05 PM

Ed J: Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 407, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 4, 2004; Reply to: MSB

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Yes the review was frustrating, but he did point out that it was VERY wet on the track, and had it been mildly wet, the car would have gone as quick as the GT3. So comparisons with the M3 CSL are not entirely valid.

5th Gear review was much better - that programme is FAR too short though.

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Oct 25, 2004 10:45:59 PM

Martin Tyler: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Quote:
nberry said:
For those of you who do not like Clarkston please tell me what he said wasn't correct about the 997S.

I havent gone back and re-read everyones comments, but i dont remember anyone saying he said incorrect things, just that they didnt like his humour and he didnt say enough about the car.

It's fustrating that he spent so much time joking about the looks and the confusion of the different models when he could have given more useful info.

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Oct 26, 2004 3:09:58 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: Martin Tyler

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Take a 1974 911 and put it next to a 1989 911. They will look more similar than a 996 and 997 despite 15 years of separation. Even the 1965 car looks remarkably similar to the last of the 964s if you squint a little. The 997 is a very good looking car because the 996 was, but the 996 just needed those headlights fixed that were never very "911" in the first place. My only complaint about the 997 is that it needed to get the wide look while still looking small and therefore sporty. I don't care if interior room would decrease, but I'm sure there are a couple hem lines that could be pulled in while leaving the overall size the same. Otherwise it's perfect in my opinion, what's wrong with changing only parts of a car that can be improved? I don't see any reason to change things just for the heck of it.

Exterior styling aside, this idea really makes sense in the interior. 911s have had the best interiors of any car, period, in my opinion. The ergonomics are good and you have a huge tach (the only needed instrument apart from oil pressure, and water and oil temp) right front and center. Overall the interior may be more simple than other cars, but it was simply perfect in it's function and lack of "stupid styling cues that would just get in the way." So I really can't understand any complaints about the interior not changing enough because I think it has changed a lot from the 996 and I certainly don't want anything changed that will in any way detract from the interior's function. The only "improvements" I see possible would be in fit and finish.

Now let's see, we get a bigger engine, improved pccb optional on a standard run 911, and an amazing adaptable suspension that will let you almost run with Mk 1 GT3s (or even close to Mk 2s). Clarkson himself commented on unreal cornering speeds. Considering all these facts, how can we not say that the 911 has been greatly improved.

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Oct 26, 2004 8:01:18 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: Yargk

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

very well said yargk ,all you said is true..

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Oct 26, 2004 11:55:53 AM

Ando: Junior; Loc: London, England.; Posts: 99, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: robbo

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Quote:
robbo said:
Agree dreamcar ,Clarkson and Top Gear is gradually losing credibility with this sort of crap test ,he didnt say much about the car itself,just made loads of jokes about how he couldnt tell the difference between the old and new 911 - hilarious not Top Gear was originally a serious car programme for car enthusiasts ,but now it is just aimed at the general public ,who probably find if funny when Clarkson takes the mickey out of Porsche ,Ferrari,etc.
Fifth Gear on channel 5 tonight should be a much better car test by Tiff .Dont get me wrong i will always watch Top Gear and i do find Clarkson funny but he needs to be more serious when testing the cars,and leave all the bullshit for the studio

The Ch 5 report was obviously much better but even Tiff couldn't resist the old 'This new car, or is it this one' gag.......you're a funny guy Tiff. Just stick to driving and reporting the facts...(Oh and waggling the wheel obviously).

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Oct 27, 2004 8:22:37 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Yargk

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Quote:
Yargk said:
Take a 1974 911 and put it next to a 1989 911. They will look more similar than a 996 and 997 despite 15 years of separation. Even the 1965 car looks remarkably similar to the last of the 964s if you squint a little. The 997 is a very good looking car because the 996 was, but the 996 just needed those headlights fixed that were never very "911" in the first place...

Interesting thought BUT
what IS the right design for the 911's headlights? I would say it was quite remarkable and showing balls that H. Lagaay switched from the traditional single-headlamp style to the 996 variant. Both the Mk.1 as well as the Turbo-style Mk.2 headlights are very interesting in my eyes and I actually didn't have any problem with them! Design is not about being conservative and I don't even think that Porsche needed to be that conservative. I don't see the charming proportions on the 997's front as I did on the 993 or 996. Let's put it straight, those models are in my eyes the very best next to the very first 911 generation. Credits to Lagaay for providing us with these wonderful cars. I indeed am asking if he lost faith in himself or if Porsche's board was suddenly crowded with discouraged Conservatists that wanted back the VERY traditional look...

Would I still buy a 997? Yes!

Clarkson is an absolute fool! I am wondering if he was ever struck by someone in a 911 or where his ridiculous attitude comes from.
He didn't say anything wrong?
Hm...
- the design looks to similiar?
People obviously wanted it that way!
- the interior looks the same?
WHAT? Look again, you moron! Anybody who doesn't see the difference and cannot see the resembling lines of the air-cooled Porsches should never be allowed to do a test-report on that car!
- 996s are only driven by bald-headed fat guys in their midlife-crisis?
Sounds like himself, sans the wiping cloth on his head...

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Oct 27, 2004 8:29:44 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

One more:

I don't want to imply any intent but it is somehow surprising that certain cars are tested in wet conditions and NEVER re-tested in dry and similiar conditions...

Talking about objective journalism

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Oct 27, 2004 8:44:56 PM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

Quote:
Ferdie said:
Quote:
Yargk said:
Take a 1974 911 and put it next to a 1989 911. They will look more similar than a 996 and 997 despite 15 years of separation. Even the 1965 car looks remarkably similar to the last of the 964s if you squint a little. The 997 is a very good looking car because the 996 was, but the 996 just needed those headlights fixed that were never very "911" in the first place...

Interesting thought BUT
what IS the right design for the 911's headlights? I would say it was quite remarkable and showing balls that H. Lagaay switched from the traditional single-headlamp style to the 996 variant. Both the Mk.1 as well as the Turbo-style Mk.2 headlights are very interesting in my eyes and I actually didn't have any problem with them! Design is not about being conservative and I don't even think that Porsche needed to be that conservative. I don't see the charming proportions on the 997's front as I did on the 993 or 996. Let's put it straight, those models are in my eyes the very best next to the very first 911 generation. Credits to Lagaay for providing us with these wonderful cars. I indeed am asking if he lost faith in himself or if Porsche's board was suddenly crowded with discouraged Conservatists that wanted back the VERY traditional look...

Would I still buy a 997? Yes!

Clarkson is an absolute fool! I am wondering if he was ever struck by someone in a 911 or where his ridiculous attitude comes from.
He didn't say anything wrong?
Hm...
- the design looks to similiar?
People obviously wanted it that way!
- the interior looks the same?
WHAT? Look again, you moron! Anybody who doesn't see the difference and cannot see the resembling lines of the air-cooled Porsches should never be allowed to do a test-report on that car!
- 996s are only driven by bald-headed fat guys in their midlife-crisis?
Sounds like himself, sans the wiping cloth on his head...

Well I was getting used to the facelift 996 headlights, but after I saw a 997 in person, I feel that is more how it should be. I guess this comes down to personal opinion because I think that the GT3 and GT2 versions of the 996 look infinitely better than the standard model so my tastes aren't just for the conservative. I always thought that the retractable rear spoiler was silly and conservative. They want to keep the classic side profile, but come on, we've known since 1973 that at least a duck tail is needed. I like the profile too so I don't think a whole redesign of the rear would be appropriate, but I think a fixed wing is very attractive. I don't see the point of adding a motor to raise and lower a wing just for looks when the car is parked (especially when I think a fixed wing looks better). I even like the look of the carrera GT much better with the wing in its high position because it seems to integrate better with the look of the car and the height of the cabin. It should never retract to its low position.

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Oct 27, 2004 8:51:57 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Yargk

Re: Top Gear 997 S video

I guess this is the least amount of concession Porsche had to do to everyboy who wants to pose with his or her car once in a while...

And I have to admit that I like the retractable spoiler though I care much more about handling or quality!
I would accept the fact that the spoiler adjust to aerodynamics and vehicle speed!

I don't think the 997 headlights are bad but the car doesn't have the charming looks that both predecessors had - and I believe that I can judge on that!

The 996 headlights were a very interesting variation and I don't even believe that it would've made 993 owners from switching to the new models - if not other vital characteristics as handling, quality (fit&feel, materials) and ENGINE SOUND would've been a huge step backwards!
So if any car clinic revealed that people preferred the headlight looks on the previous models I am heavily doubting that this switch backwards would've been necessary!

Greetings!

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