Crown

Beautiful car and beautiful place you have. Plenty of room for more garages it seems 

schmoell:

Beautiful car and beautiful place you have. Plenty of room for more garages it seems 

Haha I wish. This is my place in Whistler, only have a 2 car garage, my primary residence in Vancouver can accommodate 9 without blocking any cars. 

Weather was nice and was a weekday, so had to do a blast up and down that beautiful highway to exercise the car. 

At 6/10 to maybe 8/10, this pig handles shockingly well, the air suspension and the active roll bar really keep it flat around bends. It almost felt like I was driving the Exclusive. Really a great testament to Porsche's engineering department ability to magically make weight disappear as best as they can. 

The 136HP e-motor is borderline propelling the car though. In the city it's fine, I am barely exceeding the power limit and dipped into the ICE motor on take offs, but if I adjust the throttle request a little bit and settle for a slightly slower start, it can stay as a EV. The e-Tron on the other hand satisfy that department completely without maxing out the e-motor, using perhaps ~50% of power. I guess if the Panamera has a 180HP e-motor then everything will be fine  Or even 150HP.  Which Porsche actually have one, the 156HP one from the 918 rear e-motor. But that one might not fit the 8-speed PDK. 

14.1kWh battery is absolutely big enough for my city needs. It will do ~35km in the city, have't try draining it completely on the highway yet. For comparison the 6.8kWh in my 918 will do 16km in the city repeatedly, on highway it will last 24km. Doesn't seems like efficiency improved much at all but the Panamera is much heavier. Regardless, even if I drain the battery, it only takes slightly more than 2 hours to charge back up at home with my 7.2kW charger. 

Later this month I will take it to the track and see what it does at 9/10. 

Whoopsy:

schmoell:

Beautiful car and beautiful place you have. Plenty of room for more garages it seems 

 

Haha I wish. This is my place in Whistler, only have a 2 car garage, my primary residence in Vancouver can accommodate 9 without blocking any cars. 

Weather was nice and was a weekday, so had to do a blast up and down that beautiful highway to exercise the car. 

At 6/10 to maybe 8/10, this pig handles shockingly well, the air suspension and the active roll bar really keep it flat around bends. It almost felt like I was driving the Exclusive. Really a great testament to Porsche's engineering department ability to magically make weight disappear as best as they can. 

The 136HP e-motor is borderline propelling the car though. In the city it's fine, I am barely exceeding the power limit and dipped into the ICE motor on take offs, but if I adjust the throttle request a little bit and settle for a slightly slower start, it can stay as a EV. The e-Tron on the other hand satisfy that department completely without maxing out the e-motor, using perhaps ~50% of power. I guess if the Panamera has a 180HP e-motor then everything will be fine  Or even 150HP.  Which Porsche actually have one, the 156HP one from the 918 rear e-motor. But that one might not fit the 8-speed PDK. 

14.1kWh battery is absolutely big enough for my city needs. It will do ~35km in the city, have't try draining it completely on the highway yet. For comparison the 6.8kWh in my 918 will do 16km in the city repeatedly, on highway it will last 24km. Doesn't seems like efficiency improved much at all but the Panamera is much heavier. Regardless, even if I drain the battery, it only takes slightly more than 2 hours to charge back up at home with my 7.2kW charger. 

Later this month I will take it to the track and see what it does at 9/10.

I can hardly get 2 track days out of a set of tires with my 991.2 Turbo S without taking it easy at some point - which of course defeats the purpose; This thing is fast, very fast,  but a tire eating monster, esp the front tires are not more like a snack. I'd be interested to learn what your Panamera can achieve. Maybe half a day if pushed hard ?   Re the garages, there is this law of nature that says, that you're always short of one 

I drove my Panamera Turbo S for three laps (yes, laps not hours) at a track called Mantorp in Sweden. It’s a quit short track, but man that car eats tires on the track

As you say Nick, that car is amazing and on ordinary roads it hides the weight very well, but WOW, you’ll notice it on track

The farmer:

I drove my Panamera Turbo S for three laps (yes, laps not hours) at a track called Mantorp in Sweden. It’s a quit short track, but man that car eats tires on the track

As you say Nick, that car is amazing and on ordinary roads it hides the weight very well, but WOW, you’ll notice it on track

This is why you need your own pit crew with an ample supply of tires! I've been to a few events where a couple of drivers did just that.  

schmoell:

Whoopsy:

schmoell:

Beautiful car and beautiful place you have. Plenty of room for more garages it seems 

 

Haha I wish. This is my place in Whistler, only have a 2 car garage, my primary residence in Vancouver can accommodate 9 without blocking any cars. 

Weather was nice and was a weekday, so had to do a blast up and down that beautiful highway to exercise the car. 

At 6/10 to maybe 8/10, this pig handles shockingly well, the air suspension and the active roll bar really keep it flat around bends. It almost felt like I was driving the Exclusive. Really a great testament to Porsche's engineering department ability to magically make weight disappear as best as they can. 

The 136HP e-motor is borderline propelling the car though. In the city it's fine, I am barely exceeding the power limit and dipped into the ICE motor on take offs, but if I adjust the throttle request a little bit and settle for a slightly slower start, it can stay as a EV. The e-Tron on the other hand satisfy that department completely without maxing out the e-motor, using perhaps ~50% of power. I guess if the Panamera has a 180HP e-motor then everything will be fine  Or even 150HP.  Which Porsche actually have one, the 156HP one from the 918 rear e-motor. But that one might not fit the 8-speed PDK. 

14.1kWh battery is absolutely big enough for my city needs. It will do ~35km in the city, have't try draining it completely on the highway yet. For comparison the 6.8kWh in my 918 will do 16km in the city repeatedly, on highway it will last 24km. Doesn't seems like efficiency improved much at all but the Panamera is much heavier. Regardless, even if I drain the battery, it only takes slightly more than 2 hours to charge back up at home with my 7.2kW charger. 

Later this month I will take it to the track and see what it does at 9/10.

I can hardly get 2 track days out of a set of tires with my 991.2 Turbo S without taking it easy at some point - which of course defeats the purpose; This thing is fast, very fast,  but a tire eating monster, esp the front tires are not more like a snack. I'd be interested to learn what your Panamera can achieve. Maybe half a day if pushed hard ?   Re the garages, there is this law of nature that says, that you're always short of one 

That problem is solved actually. With so many Porsches around, there is bound to be at least one if not more at the dealership getting something done  My record is 4 at the dealership some time last year.

As a matter of fact, my Turbo 3.6 is sitting in the workshop right now waiting for parts. 

So you're treating the garages, the workshop and shipping of new cars as a just-in-time supply chain. This is brilliant ! 

Is it wrong of me to say that I like your house in Whistler more than the Panamera? 

Still, if I'd go for a Panamera, it would definitely be the Turbo S, no doubt.  The interior is just beautiful.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Is it wrong of me to say that I like your house in Whistler more than the Panamera? 

Still, if I'd go for a Panamera, it would definitely be the Turbo S, no doubt.  The interior is just beautiful.

nah it's not wrong, it is in a place with beautiful scenery. 

Now that I have quite a few miles in the Panny, and quite a lot of those in E-mode, I have discovered that the Panny is more efficient than the Audi e-Tron 

Try as I might, my Audi is only doing 3.8km/kW, it's almost at 2000km.

The Panny, it has close to 1100km now, still on it's 2nd tank of gas, 300+km is on E-mode as I can charge it to full in 2 hours at home with my level 2 charger. Anyways, for those E-mode trips, it is doing 4km/kW, better than the Audi.

Literally the Turbo S has turned in a EV sedan that I can use for my daily need, and have the firepower I need when I leave the city. 36-38km EV range may not seem like much, but pretty much that's how much I drive in a day inside the city. Also, since it can be charged up so fast, I literally could go out in morning, come home for lunch and charge the car and I will have a full battery for the afternoon.

With a car this good, I really have no need for a Taycan, or any other EV for that matters. Why pay for a 90kWh battery when 14kWh is more than good enough.

I seriously regret not buying this car sooner.

The full EV still has limited type of usage because it has many limitations if you look at it objectively, it is not a solution for many types of users.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I am just speaking about the efficiency in converting electricity to actual miles.

Porsche's hybrid is better in doing that, even when the Panny is heavier and a much less powerful e-motor. 

That's the shocking thing. 

But then again it's not a surprise when Porsche had been doing electric for such a long time. The hybrid system in the Panny is their 3rd generation already. 

While Porsche is better known as the sports car company with high performance cars, they are the most experienced in doing electric stuff among all the German marques. All those developments for the 918 and the 919 are paying off now. 

The only thing you forgot in this equation is that the EV mode of the hybrid is anemic. 

While a pure “performance” EV car as a Taycan will put your eyes at the very opposite side of the skull. 

Pure city will not make a huge difference but about 150hp for 2.3t car is no Porsche...

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

Consult your vehicles' certification placards to note that the Audi e-tron is noticeably weightier by approximately 250 kilograms than the Panamera, even in Turbo S e-hybrid trim.  That is but one factor why the e-tron, at first blush, appears less efficient than the Panamera in EV mode.

Next, the e-tron has two electric machines compared with only one found in the Panamera.  That means two inverter sets must always be energized during operation, which again, requires an increase in consumption of electricity.  The Audi has approximately three times the net horsepower found in the Panamera, meaning larger electric machines, which again require more electricity.  

Audi uses asynchronous machines while the Porsche uses permanent magnetic synchronous machines which, while more expensive to fabricate than those found in the e-tron, are more efficient, by a couple of points, in converting electricity into motion.  Asynchronous machines must generate two electromagnetic fields versus the one electromagnetic field in the permanent magnetic synchronous machine.  

There are many reasons, beyond cost, why Audi would use asynchronous machine than a slightly more efficient PM designs and that has to do with design required torque and NVH profiles.  Asynchronous or induction machines tend to operate more smoothly, are quieter, and are self-starting.  In the Panamera, for example, NVH issues are less apparent because it utilizes a smaller rotor and operates within the NVH suppression systems of the internal combustion motor.  

Overall, based on these engineering trade-offs, the Audi is therefore extremely efficient even when compared with the Panamera, plus it is far more capable off-road than the Porsche.  The operating costs is a mere fraction of a Loonie between the two vehicles and that is an achievement.  

the-missile:

The only thing you forgot in this equation is that the EV mode of the hybrid is anemic. 

While a pure “performance” EV car as a Taycan will put your eyes at the very opposite side of the skull. 

Pure city will not make a huge difference but about 150hp for 2.3t car is no Porsche...

 

EVs or hybrids in EV mode is for city use in traffic only, that 130 something HP is more than enough when it is shifting with the transmission. As I mentioned before, it is good enough to keep up with stop light accelerations. 

Once out of the confines of the city it is awesome to stretch the legs and hear the glorious engine howl.

CGX car nut:

Consult your vehicles' certification placards to note that the Audi e-tron is noticeably weightier by approximately 250 kilograms than the Panamera, even in Turbo S e-hybrid trim.  That is but one factor why the e-tron, at first blush, appears less efficient than the Panamera in EV mode.

Next, the e-tron has two electric machines compared with only one found in the Panamera.  That means two inverter sets must always be energized during operation, which again, requires an increase in consumption of electricity.  The Audi has approximately three times the net horsepower found in the Panamera, meaning larger electric machines, which again require more electricity.  

Audi uses asynchronous machines while the Porsche uses permanent magnetic synchronous machines which, while more expensive to fabricate than those found in the e-tron, are more efficient, by a couple of points, in converting electricity into motion.  Asynchronous machines must generate two electromagnetic fields versus the one electromagnetic field in the permanent magnetic synchronous machine.  

There are many reasons, beyond cost, why Audi would use asynchronous machine than a slightly more efficient PM designs and that has to do with design required torque and NVH profiles.  Asynchronous or induction machines tend to operate more smoothly, are quieter, and are self-starting.  In the Panamera, for example, NVH issues are less apparent because it utilizes a smaller rotor and operates within the NVH suppression systems of the internal combustion motor.  

Overall, based on these engineering trade-offs, the Audi is therefore extremely efficient even when compared with the Panamera, plus it is far more capable off-road than the Porsche.  The operating costs is a mere fraction of a Loonie between the two vehicles and that is an achievement.  

Didn't bother to check the actual weights of either car, they both are well over 5000lbs, heavy enough 

I get the feeling that the e-Tron won't be lasting that long in your fleet

Whoopsy:

I am just speaking about the efficiency in converting electricity to actual miles.

Porsche's hybrid is better in doing that, even when the Panny is heavier and a much less powerful e-motor. 

That's the shocking thing. 

But then again it's not a surprise when Porsche had been doing electric for such a long time. The hybrid system in the Panny is their 3rd generation already. 

While Porsche is better known as the sports car company with high performance cars, they are the most experienced in doing electric stuff among all the German marques. All those developments for the 918 and the 919 are paying off now. 

 

If Porsche succeeds in lowering the weight of a Cayenne Turbo S hybrid to around 2.1 tons, I may be interested again. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

ha:

I get the feeling that the e-Tron won't be lasting that long in your fleet

And your suspicion is confirmed. I didn't buy the car, it is on a 3 year lease 

Whoopsy:

ha:

I get the feeling that the e-Tron won't be lasting that long in your fleet

 

And your suspicion is confirmed. I didn't buy the car, it is on a 3 year lease 

 Clever. I wouldn't buy any EV right now. Not even the Taycan.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

More charge than petrol left!  Impressive instantaneous g-numbers that the Taycan probably betters.  

So I took it to the track finally. The tires actually held up ok, the weak link is actually the brakes surprisingly. It would seems there isn’t enough airflow to them and they are literally smoking in the pits after 3 laps.

As expected, the front tires give up first because of the weight. But man can this thing pick up speed on the straights. 

And the launch control is just savage, unreal. My Exclusive actually pulled a tiny bit more Gs, 1.25 vs 1.22, but in the Exclusive there was no drama, but in the Panamera it feels like I got hit with Thor’s hammer! It actually hits harder than a 918 launch and that’s the surprising part.   

Oh, and Porsche didn’t put in a fast charge mode like they did with the 918. It uses around 10% of charge per a 4.8km lap. In the 918 a full charge would last just under 3 laps. I could do the out lap, a fast lap then I go into charge mode and do another flying lap after. The Panamera takes a lot longer to charge back up, and I found out the only efficient way is to put it in E-Charge mode, and lift and coast, that way the ECU kept the rev high while coasting to generate the electricity, but the moment I put my foot back in the gas pedal the charge rate goes down right away. 

Thanks for the details. Very interesting and illustrates the potential of the Taycan.  Almost surprised by a video of an Audi A5 Sportback versus a Tesla Model 3 on rollers.  The Audi exhibited more wheelspin than the Tesla in every roller configuration.  EVs are just that much better in torque allocation.  

very impressive g-forces for such a car !

schmoell:

very impressive g-forces for such a car !

Porsche does know how to make the heavies dance lightly.  

Even Audi has learned how to make their cars more agile.  A few months' ago, I was amazed to watch a new Audi Q8 slice through traffic without any drama.  While the speed of the Q8 was approaching reckless levels, the big SUV moved like a much smaller car.  

This is why the Taycan will surprise in handling as well.

schmoell:

very impressive g-forces for such a car !

It does help that our track has a couple steeply bank left turns and a slightly banked right 

The GT2RS topped 1.8g as a comparison. 

With the car set at the lowest setting and everything in Sport+, it was unbelievable that the car literally corners flat. The active components of the suspension system really did wonders to such a pig. 

What’s surprising is that Porsche, known for fast sports cars, is the only manufacturer that could defy physics and make weight disappeared. Not Mercedes, not BMW. But Porsche. Let that sink in. 

What kind of G’s do you reach in the cup car ?

Cup car on slicks on our track will be over 2Gs in the banking