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    Sale of 997 is not that good....

    I visitied my dealer yesterday. He told me that the 997 sale is not that good as required, as expected. He said, that lots of 996 clients are hesitant to go for a 997.

    If ordering a car now, you can get it like you want within 2 months. But he said, its also possible to get and stock car, as he has some already on stock, but also will get some more during the next couple of weeks.

    L@rs

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    I think the main problem is 997 not looking aggressive enough, should I say it looks too elegence.
    I think 997 GT3 looks better, but it is not good for everyday driving, just my 2 cents.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    I think the main initial hesitation is Porsche's own fault since they offer no significant performance increase in the "new model" from the 996 which is one of the main motivations in changing to the new model in sportcars. Porsche is about the only sportcar maker I can think off that has done that and try to get away with it since they know their cars are less dependent on HP for sales than its competition thanks to how good they drive. However that is a farly cheap move on Porsche's part since the 997C2 should of had the 355HP and the 997C2S 380HP.

    But I expect initial hesitation will fade in the following months as you get used to seeing the 997 more and more. So I don't expect sales to be down from what they were in the 996 in its first year. We will see.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    Lars996 said:
    I visitied my dealer yesterday. He told me that the 997 sale is not that good as required, as expected. He said, that lots of 996 clients are hesitant to go for a 997.

    If ordering a car now, you can get it like you want within 2 months. But he said, its also possible to get and stock car, as he has some already on stock, but also will get some more during the next couple of weeks.

    [Email]L@rs[/Email]



    My german dealer has his next "free" car around December as far as I remember. So yes, 2 months aren't much but shouldn't we actually be happy about it?

    There are various "problems" why 997 sales in Germany might not be "euphoric". I can't exclude that this is valid for other markets (like the US) too.

    1. there are still no 997 on the street. There are a few dealer cars driving around and I even saw ONE SINGLE customer car a short while ago but the streets are still full of 996s. From pictures in car magazines, most people can't really tell that the 997 looks much different than the 996 does. And only a minority of current 996/993 owners visited the dealer presentations.

    2. the economic situation is pretty bad, especially here in Europe and especially in Germany. Buying a new car, even if there is money, wouldn't be "appropiate" or "politically correct". You can't buy a new Porsche while at the same time you fire employees or cut their salaries, bonuses, etc.
    It is the time of "whining", not the time of "showing off" what you have. I know this is absurd but this is Germany, the land of the "poor" rich or "rich" poor.

    3. Porsche made a huge mistake from a marketing and strategical point of view: I understand that they didn't want to make the 911 look completely different and this was a wise decision because making it looking spectacular would surely make even more people to refrain from buying it right now in the current economic "mood". But they should have understood that they can't attract new buyers from other brands in the current economic situation where even rich or wealthy people look twice before they spend their money. So in my opinion, the only potential buyers of the 997 right now are 993 owners AND 996 owners. For some 993 owners, the 997 is too expensive and some don't like the "too stylish" interior and the electronic "gimmicks".
    For most 996 owners, the 997 is not different enough compared to the 996. A lot of 996 owners I talked to LOVE the 997. But they don't see any reason to loose a lot of money by selling their 996 and go for the 997 instead.
    So if the 997 would have had 380 HP from the start, it would have been much more productive for sales figures because 60 HP difference would have really meant something to 996 owners.

    4. Porsche and Porsche sales staff always argued that power isn't that important for customers. It seems this has changed. To my knowledge, the Carrera with 325 HP is already a "flop" over here in Germany, most customers go for the 997 Carrera S. I heard that Porsche planned a 1:1 parity between 997 Carrera and Carrera S sales but it seems it is more likely 1:2 or even better in favor of the Carrera S.

    5. the advertisement for the 997 in german car magazines is horrible, absolutely HORRIBLE. They want to sell passion and tradition, all they do is to trigger a "soon vomiting" feel . Also if I read Christophorus or the german Porsche Club Magazine, I wonder if they really care that the 997 is here. All is very strange indeed.

    6. problems with certain options don't make potential customers happy and some even refrain from ordering a car if they don't get a certain option like for example the tire pressure monitor. There is a rumor that some options were delayed due to supplier problems. Some suppliers in Germany and probably worldwide too are at the brink of being bankrupt and maybe this is one reason.

    7. the policy of "secrecy" towards dealers and customers doesn't create many friends. I remember one guy who asked a dealer when the 997 is coming and how much power he should expect. The dealer wasn't able to tell him anything...3 months before the official press info. This guy went for a SL 55 AMG instead because he didn't want to order/buy the "cat in the sack" as we say here. His local Mercedes dealer provided 17%(!!!) rebate for a brandnew SL 55 AMG which has been put on the dealer's name just for a few days.

    Now somebody asked me what would have I done different if I would have been responsible for marketing/distribution/development. Well, here is my "plan":

    1. 997 Carrera with 335-340 HP and almost no standard options for a VERY attractive price way below 996 C2 entry price tag as an "entry 911".
    2. 997 Carrera S with 380 HP and more standard options like full leather, chrono sport (without that dumb looking stop watch) and maybe a radio at the current price tag of the 997 Carrera S base model. Some customers don't want the PCM and are desperate because they're real audiophiles or just want to install their own Nav/Sat Radio/MP3 stuff. Some want the chrono sport package but they hate the stop watch.
    The 20 mm chassis with LSD should also be available in the US. PCCB option should cost less than 5000 Euro/USD to attract buyers.
    3. sport exhaust option should have been available from the start.
    4. the interior of the 997 looks nice but if I go for retro on the exterior, I would have gone for some retro on the interior too.
    5. front lights are slightly too big, a size smaller would have been fine and of course LED rear lights.
    6. pointing out the technical improvements and changes compared to the 996 in ads and car magazines would also make people to better "understand" the 997.
    7. making the 997 Turbo/GT3 presentation timeline public to avoid too much "hopes" of potential buyers who refrain from buying a Carrera S because they think the GT3 and/or Turbo come soon. I know a lot of potential buyers who refrain from buying a 997 Carrera S because they think the 997 Turbo comes out very soon.

    I would also change Exclusive/Tequipment department strategy: Exclusive should stay with leather stuff, etc. but Porsche Motorsport (the "internal" Porsche "Tuner") should be responsible, at least on the paper from a marketing standpoint of view, for sport exhausts, suspension kits, aerokits, wheels, powerkits, etc.

    Well, I'm not working for Porsche and I can imagine that my above "plans" even made some Porsche employees feel "uncomfortable" or even furious but as a long-time Porsche customer, this is how I feel. I might not be the "typical" Porsche customer but people like me who are "faithful" buyers are actually the people Porsche can rely on during bad times. But of course only if I get the feeling that they try hard. Right now I'm pretty much confused, especially when I look at the Boxster.
    Porsche shouldn't be surprised if Boxster sales will stay at the same level or even lower compared to the "old" 986.

    Time will tell if I'm right and I think 2005 will be a very interesting time, for Porsche, for dealers and of course for us customers.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    I think the main initial hesitation is Porsche's own fault since they offer no significant performance increase in the "new model" from the 996 which is one of the main motivations in changing to the new model in sportcars...



    Carlos, I absolutely share your opinion. I would refer the term "performance" not only on acc. figures - which are not that overwhelming compared to the competiton - but also to handling and braking. People won't realize this unless they drive the 997.

    Up to the 993 the Carrera models seemed similiarly powerful than the more expensive, by numbers more powerful and more flamboyant Ferrari 8-cylinder models. This has changed with the 996 / 360 models already!

    Most people go for straight line performance, even if not alone, they want to show some high-powered limousines the taillights or at least keep up with them.

    The 997 sales strategy in terms of base and "S"-model was a smart move marketingwise but people don't want to buy a new Porsche every two years AND at a certain point it becomes obvious to them that they get ripped of!

    Mercedes and Porsche were the traditional outstanding marques that provided a virtually unchanged (of course not in the details) model for several years, making the customer feel investing the money in the right place and providing additional value.
    I know of some long-term Porsche owners that are made to find a new model every two years at their dealer either forcing them to buy the new one or drive the outdated for much longer!

    In the end, a proper stuffed Carrera S will cost more than 100k Euros, about the equivalent of an M5 or E55 - who wants to spend, especially in the mentioned economic situation, on a "entry" sportscar?

    RC, I do think that the 997's interior is actually very retro if you compare the upper and lower dashboard segments incl. the airoutlets of the 993 with the ones on the 997!

    I could imagine that a lot of customers are not willing to pay that much on a car when they hear about the financial situation of their favourite brand - even if they have to bear in mind that they only earned a certain percentage with the cars themselves!

    I have to be honest that I would either buy a 997 Carrera (maybe with Tiptronic) for my Dad or wait two further years to buy an upgraded "S"-model with either std. or LK-provided 380 hp!

    Power is with the customer, especially in such a segment as sportscars!
    As much as I respect Wiedeking's efforts regarding Porsche I would like to see a bit more "spirit" or however you want to call it in those cars. People are VERY sensitive regarding that issue the higher and the more expensive the models become!

    Do something about it, I really don't want to drive Hyundai for the rest of my life!

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    I have driven the last two days the new 997 S. The car is beautiful. I have compared it to my 996 turbo and I have to say, that the 997 s is nearly sportiv as my turbo is.

    The price is ok, the feeling is ok, everything but the power. Before reading RC talking about 380 hp, I was talking to my dealer. I have told him that with 30 hp more (385 hp) the car would be ideal. Could it be that the new 997 4 s will have more then 380 hp?

    Despite 355 hp I am seriously thinking of buying a 997 s. Yes I have to think about if it is politically correct. I can't make presure on my stuff and the same day buy a new 997 s.

    Also I will check the new BMW M5. I think that the new M6 will better perform then the 997 s. So after testing the M5 and concluding how the M6 will drive I will make my descision. What do you think about M5/M6 and 997 s/turbo?

    Greetings

    Adnan

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Agree with much of what you wrote RC...

    Here in the states we're already seeing dealers discounting brand new 997S by as much as $5000. I would have considered buying the car if it had made more performance strides (or lost weight).

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    mumbasic said:
    ...Despite 355 hp I am seriously thinking of buying a 997 s. Yes I have to think about if it is politically correct. I can't make presure on my stuff and the same day buy a new 997 s.
    ...



    Well, if you have the money than buy it! I don't think any lottery winner will think about wether it is correct to buy great things with the money or not...

    I also think that the power figure and especially how the power is delivered makes some people feel dissapointed about the car. Beyond 5k RPM the car is great but I don't want to put stress on the engine and receive bad gas mileage because I have to stay in this area for the entire time. Unlike some other people I would drive this car as a daily driver!

    Adnan,

    without doubts the 997 TT will be far ahead of any car you mentioned. BMW have their downsides and honestly the M5's technology is very advanced - there are rumours that this car won't be delivered in the next couple of months!

    Greetings!

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    I had the chance to test drive the 997 Carrera. Compared to my 996 3.4 I felt an improvement, but it was not dramatic. Taking into account the value my dealer was givinng me for my 996, I had to pay 50k more to get a brand new 997 Carrera with the same level of equipment. There is NO WAY I would do this. And I believe many 996 customers feel this way.

    I recall Porsche CEO telling that existing Porsche customers are the main source for 997 buyers. I wonder how they will handle the 996 inventory...

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    I agree Ferdie,

    Simply put: "HP sells" period. We know Porsches are much more than HP and straight acceleration but lets face it, thats not the mayority of buyers. Porsche is no longer a small focused sportcar maker for a few hardcore enthusiatic bunch, their current production scale require attracting more general sportcar public. and like you said, I bet many are waiting for the facelift 997 which will be what the first 997 should of been.

    Also like RC says, the 997 is too similar to the 996 (inside and outside), and 996 owners are the 997's biggest prospective market. And they are not going to tempt the other air-cooled 911 owners either to upgrade to a 997 with gizmos such as PASM, 19" wheels and Euro 8,000 PCCB's.

    I also believe that marketing for the 997 is focused incorrectly as RC says, did you see the commertial about the little kid seeing a 997 going past his school and then going to the Porsche delaer saying he will own one one day? boring!!! who cares about the visual impression the 997 leaves on a,little kid who doesn't even know how to drive or what a sportcar really is? Focus on what the 911's best attributes, the driving pleasure, performance, ect... "drive" one and you will want one type of thing. Instead their are focusing it on "image" (poseur crowd? ) and tradition while OTOH they pull out of racing (the core of Porsche) and started building non-sportcars now. Which is fine, but don't try to capitalised on tradition then on top of it.

    All in all I think the have a great product (997) to work with, unique in the market today, and it will work out great for Porsche in the end, inspite of these "details". And there are still many variants to be introduced as well.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    You are right, you can't compare a 997 tt with a M6. But think about M6 (110.000 Euro) compared to a 997 s (100.000 Euro). You get 507 hp on one side and 355 hp on the other.

    Adnan

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    Mikla said:
    ...to pay 50k more to get a brand new 997 Carrera with the same level of equipment. There is NO WAY I would do this. And I believe many 996 customers feel this way.
    ...



    If leased for four years / 15k kms a loss of 60k Euros were to be projected.

    This would've been way more than 50% in four years - resale value?

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Well, put it this way: pay 50K to get a car that is nicer, more modern, handles slightly better and is not much faster. We 've better buy a used 996 Turbo!

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    My friend just got a leasing offer on 997 Carrera S. Based on 4-year term, the residual was only 40%...OMG!!! I really want to change to M5...

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Don't forget the lack of DSG (or whatever it will be called). The F1 gear shift has been one of the best selling options for the F360 and Ferrari expects an even higher take rate on the F430. I have heard from two people that Porsche has difficulties finishing development.
    Oh and RC, please let us know where you buy your PCCB. While $5k is more than many people spend on their (used) cars it's still a bargain compared to official prices.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    My 996 is now roundabout 2 years old, 20.000 km. Before I testdrove and seen the 997 I thought, I would buy the new car definatley. I imagined to put 35 k Euro on top! But lets face it - honestly, I would have to put 55-60 k Euro on top to get a new car. But - this is only the half way of the story. The new car is loosing the same amoung within the next 2 years again (meaning - loosing around 40-50k Euro in 2 years witih 20'km) - for me... this is way to much!

    As the new car is also almost the same than the 996... I'll wait and see what will happen. I'm a car fanatic, never hold a car longer than 18 months before... but, I'm also a business man and I have to work much to hard to loose money so fast.

    For me... Porsche should work on the really new 911 fast and they have to work on the price-stability, too! Mid- and long-term, this is very important.

    As it was said in this thread before, most customers will be the old cusatomers... they shouldn't mistreat them!

    L@rs

    don't misunderstand me.. the 997 is a fantastic car and I'm still thinking about buying one.. but there are to many factors which needs to be into consideration.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Lars..well said

    I'm a Porsche lover too...but with my 996 Turbo in 2 years and 20.000km i lost 35/40 K euro..
    When the 997 TT will comes out..to buy one i must add again 45/50 K Euro and then after two years i will lost again 40K Euro..

    I can't burn so much money every two years...for resyling,ugrade etc..for a car that live in a garage 5 days a week..
    Before Porsche has stability..now they only whant to sell a lot of cars..

    I love the 997...and my dream is to buy a 997 Turbo as soon as comes out...i'm first on my dealer's list for the Turbo..but i'm not so sure to buy it..becouse to the big lost of money that is my nightmare....

    Take the right word..,with my Cayenne S sure i lost the same a lot of money..but i USE the Cayenne as a everyday car,in 4 months i put on 9.000km...with my former 996 Turbo i put the same km in one year....burn money in a box is different that burn money on the road...

    ciaociao

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    ...and like you said, I bet many are waiting for the facelift 997 which will be what the first 997 should of been....



    Funny thing is most people called the 997 the true successor after the 993...

    Carlos, out of curiousity have you driven / owned the 993 prior to your current one?

    I honestly would consider a decent 993 for weekend use OR a brand new 997 for everyday use. The depreciation on the later is immense though - I could finance the 993 with the depreciation only and have enough money left for repairs...

    The air-cooled 911s were anachronisms, the fastest cars of the bunch but with components dating back four decades! It was more of a couch on steroids for me than anything else. The 996 lost this character completely and since I could excuse the fit&finish on that car the improved handling and the different but nice looks on that car would've made it attractive to me.

    Porsche has the great situation that they received a lot of new customers with the 996 yet have a lot of 993 owners waiting for a true successor of their old sweetheart.
    What would a company want more...?

    When Porsche released a new model in the past it usually had about the same hp figures in std. version as the predecessor with Powerkit (e.g. 993 LK to 996) so we have an S-version now that is not even superior to the 996 with powerkit. I'd say a lot of people would buy this car for the upgraded engine alone if they would've been provided a decent bump in output.

    RC, what is your opinion about the Boxster? Judging by your comments you are not too convinced about it.
    I'd say they improved it in the right spots, e.g. chassis, interior, and I bet the headlights look much better in reality than on the pictures...

    Greetings!

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Carlos, out of curiousity have you driven / owned the 993 prior to your current one?



    Been driven in it but haven't had the pleasure to test it myself unfortunately. In my case, I'm not very sentimental or nostalgic inclined in my prefs when it compares to efficacy in dinamics and performance so for me the 993 is not an option, I would find too many disadvantages in that respect compared to the 996/997. Same with motorcicles, I prefer the superior sport performance and capabilities of the inline-4's than the special engine character of the VTwins that other people prefer. In Star Trek terms, I'm more of a Mr.Spock than a Captain Kirk

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    ...In Star Trek terms, I'm more of a Mr.Spock than a Captain Kirk



    Sans the ears I hope.

    I am not in favour of the 993 because of historical emotions but I am looking for things with the greatest pleasure for me - and currently of course with an eye on my financial situation! Considering the fact how many people still own a 993 or can sell their vehicle for very reasonable prices makes me feel that I'm not the only one with that opinion.
    Besides that there are unfortunately different reasons that would make me hesitate to buy the 997 right now!

    By the way, is your last video still online? In which forum did you place it?

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Power sells, period. The 997 may be more stable and fun to drive than the 996, but 99% of possible buyers wont notice this difference, as you must be a very good a sensible driver to take advantage 997 has over the 966. But every body knows how to press the throtle and feel the power, you don't have to be a good and sensible driver to feel that.

    I think the 997 is definitively different from the 996, different enough to make the move regarding design, the problem here is that you have to pay alot more to get just a few more Hp, your eyes will be glad, but not your pocket and adrenelin.

    J.Seven

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    It's good to have my Internet connection back .

    Very interesting write up RC as always

    As I wrote several weeks ago in one of the threads, my dealer still has the Carrera (not S) from the launch day. They have received orders but he doesn't think the orders are coming in the way they expected it.

    I personally have not seen a 997 out in the streets yet I know when fanch was in Houston he said he saw one but I still have not . I just need to see what it really looks like out in the open.

    Mind you I'm a very compulsive spender specifically when it comes to Porsche or Sports cars, I have lost more money in trading cars than stock market; I was afraid what would happen when I see the new 997 will I lose sleep over it? Will it turn into I "MUST" have one situation?
    Truely, when I saw it the car just didn't strike me as "oh my GOD, gotta get me one of these" .

    After seeing the car in flesh at the dealer it indeed put me at ease that my '00 996 is still a cool looking car, regardless of power of course.

    I hope the God that Porsche won't fail because of marketing shortcomings. I truely love and admire Porsche and I want to see it succeed; however as RC mentioned too they don't seem to be in the right path .

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    ...Truely, when I saw it the car just didn't strike me as "oh my GOD, gotta get me one of these"...



    I truly believe that the front end is not on par with the 993 and 996 styling-wise.
    A modification of the front indicators should be it - they just don't look right to me.

    I have to say that the car looks great in person out in the public, have seen two private ones and a couple dealer- or Porsche-owned out on the streets.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    I am not in favour of the 993 because of historical emotions but I am looking for things with the greatest pleasure for me - and currently of course with an eye on my financial situation!



    That makes sense, I concur its a good option then.

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    By the way, is your last video still online? In which forum did you place it?



    Yes, in the video section of my web page
    http://members.rennlist.com/raptor/

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    ...In Star Trek terms, I'm more of a Mr.Spock than a Captain Kirk



    Sans the ears I hope.





    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    ...Here in the states we're already seeing dealers discounting brand new 997S by as much as $5000. ...



    I would like to know where in the states they are discounting the cars. Here in Southern California, the Porsche capital of the world, a standard 997 or a 997S are being priced at $5000 over MSRP if you can even find a car. Most dealers are out of cars. McKenna, Rusnak, Downtown LA are all charging $5K to $10K over MSRP. Last time I checked, McKenna and Downtown had no 997 available. Rusnak has a non S for $5K over MSRP.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    OK, guys, we shouldn't be too pessimistic because there was a similar situation when the 996 showed up. Too many people were too "cautious" to order one, this is why I got mine pretty fast. And a lot of people didn't like the 996 at all, criticism was pretty harsh, especially in the first year of introduction. I also remember that almost every 993 driver I met on the street tried to race me, it was a pretty weird old vs. new competition.

    The 997 will make it's way, I'm pretty sure about it. But I would hate it to be one of the first buyers and to see a much more powerful engine 2 years later. I doubt it'll happen but anyway, I expected more power on the 997 Carrera S. Honestly. And to be honest: the major reason why I bought the 997 Carrera S is the fantastic and absolutely fabulous 20 mm option with LSD and the PCCB brake. This setup makes the 997 Carrera S a real "killer" on tiny country roads, I doubt there are many cars which can follow.
    The PASM equipped car I had for two days is a different beast, after driving more than 4500 km in the Carrera S with 20 mm option/PCCB, the difference becomes even more evident. But don't worry, if someone didn't drive a car equipped with the 20 mm option/PCCB, he wouldn't probably miss anything. Even the PASM equipped car can be very fast and stable. I'm curious to read the SPORT AUTO test of the 997 Carrera S with 20 mm suspension/LSD and PCCB, I bet the difference vs. the PASM equipped car will be huge, especially in Hockenheim where the suspension setup really is important.

    It is a mystery for me why Porsche doesn't offer the 20 mm option in the US, even without lowering. And the PCCB brake is incredible, I just wish it would be cheaper.

    After thinking a lot and after testdriving several different models, I think a 997 Carrera with Tiptronic is the perfect daily driver at a highly attractive price. Maybe I would add the 19'' wheels due to the wider tires but that's it. No PASM and even the chrono sport package wouldn't be needed. Again: as a daily driver in the city, the perfect setup and it provides fun and some bling bling too.

    For drivers who want to have it all, sportiness and daily comfort, the 997 Carrera with PASM is the perfect combo.

    And for those who don't care too much about money and want to have that extra power and better brake, the 997 Carrera S is the best choice.

    Personally, I think that the 997 Carrera S with 20 mm option and PCCB brake is the best choice for those who don't need ultimate power but ultimate handling performance.

    I just wish Porsche would have added more power to the 997 Carrera S, even 370 HP would have been more "attractive". Sad, they missed an opportunity to sell more cars, especially in the beginning.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    Quote:
    vtrader said:
    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    ...Here in the states we're already seeing dealers discounting brand new 997S by as much as $5000. ...



    I would like to know where in the states they are discounting the cars. Here in Southern California, the Porsche capital of the world, a standard 997 or a 997S are being priced at $5000 over MSRP if you can even find a car. Most dealers are out of cars. McKenna, Rusnak, Downtown LA are all charging $5K to $10K over MSRP. Last time I checked, McKenna and Downtown had no 997 available. Rusnak has a non S for $5K over MSRP.



    I suspect SF moves a few P-cars, too....esp for $100K+ P-cars, SF may move roughly as many units as LA An SF dealer can get me a Jan build 997S at MSRP...just doesn't sound very hard-to-get, so I've gotta think that numerous P dealers in places like Cleveland, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, etc are trying to unload 997s....a lot less wealth, bad weather and conservative consumption cultures probably change pricing/supply dynamics on discretionary sportscars fairly dramatically vs LA/SF, which are near-ideal mkts for high-end car cos.....

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    I believe sales numbers will look different in Spring, since a lot of people hesitate to drive that car during cold winters - especially in NA where people seem to get the 997 as a 2nd or 3rd car quite often. Am I right on that one?

    RC, I wouldn't recommend the 997 Tiptronic to certain people because of the "Bling"-factor. Not at all.
    Especially not in Germany - you know what I am referring to!

    There are actually quite a lot of people who drive a Carrera NOT for power or on-the-limit handling. They just enjoy the quality, the feel and character and especially the raspy engine sound. For those people the entry model would be a great choice and with more subjective mid-range torque even superior to the "S"-model. What if Porsche intended the current "S"-model to be the initial entry version, with a more powerful 3.8-engine setup for the more demanding...

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    i don't think that it's due to lack of horsepower or bad marketing (when i browse thru "christopherus" i have serious doubts about what PAG thinks about their customers anyway. this pseudo-lifestyle writing is gruesome.)

    i can only speak for myself, but the 997 doesn't TOUCH MY HEART.

    when i spend EUR 100K+ on a new car, it's not about some specs on a sheet.

    it's about emotion.

    assuming that i'd have to spend around 100K+ for a porsche today-- i would rather go for a 996 GT3 (because it touches my heart) or a 4S (because it looks better and more modern IMO).

    i'm not the only one i guess. high-end 996's (4S/turbo convertible, turbo S) are still going strong from what i've heard.

    and allow me one last word regarding the interior: the 996 interior is not beautiful and not very high-quality looking without leather pack. no discussion here. but it is UNIQUE. it's very porsche. the 997 interior isn't. it could be from ANY car. and when i read articles in the press they always tell "gladly the times are over where the carrera cockpit looked like the one from the boxster". erm guys, anyone seen the 987?

    look at this 2005 mustang. yours for USD 20,000.--

    same cockpit lines.

    Re: Sale of 997 is not that good....

    I agree with many of the comments but I am closest to ZZBoba. I've owned 13 Porsche's and the 997 is nice but I don't want it like a playboy model:) While it sounds like a great car to use for a daily driver, and then switch on sport mode for the track, its a ton of money. I like to pay cash for cars, it ensures that I REALLY want the car. When I look at trading a 02 sub 10K mile Cab for a 997S, then it's my car and $40K US. Based on recent past, that 997S is going to be worth $60K in 2 years... Is there $80K in incremental fun there? I don't think so.

    Roy

     
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