Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S - Page1

Oct 7, 2004 6:39:49 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002

Car and Driver review of the 997S

The Verdict:

HIGHS Shaped with some of the old curves, blatting exhaust, sharper controls, more fun.

LOWS Expensive as always, only 911 nuts may notice you.

THE VERDICT More Porsche less Supra.

Final paragraph of the review;

"Can the next 911 possibly provide more, or has the car at last reached its summit, a mix of old and new that is facing a Darwinian dead end? Porsche is selling tradition with the 911.The more the company modernizes and the mainstream it, the less appeal it has for the faithful. Where does Porsche go from here? Perhaps it doesn't have to go anywhere."

I will spare you my comments but these words sound familiar.

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Oct 7, 2004 9:45:42 PM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:
nberry said:
The Verdict:

HIGHS Shaped with some of the old curves, blatting exhaust, sharper controls, more fun.

LOWS Expensive as always, only 911 nuts may notice you.

THE VERDICT More Porsche less Supra.

Final paragraph of the review;

"Can the next 911 possibly provide more, or has the car at last reached its summit, a mix of old and new that is facing a Darwinian dead end? Porsche is selling tradition with the 911.The more the company modernizes and the mainstream it, the less appeal it has for the faithful. Where does Porsche go from here? Perhaps it doesn't have to go anywhere."

I will spare you my comments but these words sound familiar.

They have been saying such things for decades, nothings new. The 911 continues to be a dominating performance car in both subjective and objective tests. When they stop offering the performance and just sell on heritage alone, then we can start worrying. The evolution is far from over.

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Oct 7, 2004 10:00:58 PM

avedon: Junior; Loc: spain; Posts: 120, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

hi mr nick,

i have been reading a lot of you comments lately,and came up to the conclusion that...you really dont care about sports cars and dont understand anything about them either. probably you drive F cars just to be noticed.

nothing personal mr nick.

cheers.

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Oct 7, 2004 10:05:53 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: avedon

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:
avedon said:
hi mr nick,

i have been reading a lot of you comments lately,and came up to the conclusion that...you really dont care about sports cars and dont understand anything about them either. probably you drive F cars just to be noticed.

nothing personal mr nick.

cheers.

I don't respond to Nick's post but I am obviously not the only one with a differing opinion!

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Oct 7, 2004 10:08:15 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: avedon

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Nick- why do you denigrate yourself to the pauper's level by reading ...gasp .. 997 boards ? Do you troll Chevy Cavalier or Hyundai Accent boards too?
After all - you are WORTHY , i.e., a Ferrari owner who actually gets new models at MSRP from F car dealers who don't try to sweep you under the rug after putting your name on " The List " !. All BOW TO SIR NICK !!

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Oct 8, 2004 1:24:30 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: avedon

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:
[bsports cars and dont understand anything about them either. probably you drive F cars just to be noticed.

nothing personal mr nick.

ll o]avedon said:
hi mr nick,

i have been reading a lot of you comments lately,and came up to the conclusion that...you really dont care about

cheers.

I do not take anything personal. My views on Porsche will only change when they begin to give the buyer value which includes performance, fun factor, exclusivity, and sexy styling. All you get from Porsche today is recycled styling, marginal performance gains UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY and mass production.

Porsche is close to becoming if not already there, the German Ford of the sport car world.

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Oct 8, 2004 2:37:19 AM

MaxErnst: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 513, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:

I do not take anything personal. My views on Porsche will only change when they begin to give the buyer value which includes performance, fun factor, exclusivity, and sexy styling. All you get from Porsche today is recycled styling, marginal performance gains UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY and mass production.

Porsche is close to becoming if not already there, the German Ford of the sport car world.

Hey, I'm almost 50 and have more than a few sports cars (inc. a 911T)in my life and now I'm buying the latest (and last?) 911.

From my perspective It's got a huge amount of performace, is going to be totally fun to drive (even though my 997S test drives sucked), is exclusive by virtue of it's price (the car is worth what people are willing to pay). The styling, impossible to recycle because it is like a smoothed river rock, it is _timeless_.

I don't understand your objections at all. I'm glad I grew up admiring the car and I'm glad I get to enjoy it to the fullest in it's present (and final, according to C&D?) state of "perfection." Hopefully, when I sell my "perfect" 911 it will be because I'm too old to drive it.

Interesting aside: I briefly looked at a 512TR which at $100K is the only REAL Ferarri I could afford at this point (real= 12 cylinders). Too unreliable and flashy for me; so I decided to buy a 997S instead.

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Oct 8, 2004 9:09:16 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:
nberry said:
Final paragraph of the review;

"Can the next 911 possibly provide more, or has the car at last reached its summit, a mix of old and new that is facing a Darwinian dead end? Porsche is selling tradition with the 911. The more the company modernizes and the mainstream it, the less appeal it has for the faithful. Where does Porsche go from here? Perhaps it doesn't have to go anywhere."

I will spare you my comments but these words sound familiar.

The fact that the third sentence makes no sense because of typos or words having been omitted certainly sounds familiar.

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Oct 8, 2004 9:58:23 PM

brunner: Veteran; Loc: E. Europe , Romania; Posts: 1125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 28, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:
nberry said:
My views on Porsche will only change when they begin to give the buyer value which includes performance, fun factor, exclusivity, and sexy styling.

- performance: check.
- fun factor: check
- exclusivity: irrelevant. It was never designed to be an 'exclusive' car.
- sexy styling: check.
- performance/price ratio: better than any ferrari.

You were saying..?

"marginal performance gains UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY "
How much is a ferrari these days? More expensive than the best porsche, i suppose?

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Oct 8, 2004 10:00:34 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Yargk

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:
Yargk said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Final paragraph of the review;

"Can the next 911 possibly provide more, or has the car at last reached its summit, a mix of old and new that is facing a Darwinian dead end? Porsche is selling tradition with the 911......
Where does Porsche go from here? Perhaps it doesn't have to go anywhere."

They have been saying such things for decades, nothings new. The 911 continues to be a dominating performance car in both subjective and objective tests. When they stop offering the performance and just sell on heritage alone, then we can start worrying. The evolution is far from over.

I remember that I had to really overstretch my car budget about 25 years ago to trade up from a 924 to my first 911. I'd heard the rumors that Porsche was going to drop the 911 in favor of the 928, which had been introduced 1 or 2 years before. I didn't want to miss out on my last chance of owning a new 911.

I never regretted extending myself to buy the 911

, but I did learn a lot about listening to rumors and speculation about Porsche's future model plans.

I haven't read the C&D article yet, so I'm not absolutely sure how the sentence: "Where does Porsche go from here? Perhaps it doesn't have to go anywhere" was really meant.

In the meantime, does anyone else get the impression that Nick maybe totally misunderstood how it was meant? Otherwise he would not have quoted it, because it undermines his own ranting?

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Oct 8, 2004 10:55:46 PM

robbo: Pilot; Loc: essex, uk; Posts: 319, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 11, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

"Where does Porsche go from here ,perhaps it doesnt have to go anywhere" Well sorry Nick but you obviously dont get it as Frintz stated ,its a compliment you fool

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Oct 8, 2004 11:27:42 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59581, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: fritz

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

fritz, I'm pretty sure Nick misunderstood the comment. This is exactly the comment I made to a few friends after we saw the 997 for the first time: "what could be next, this 911 is almost perfect, I don't see how the next generation could look alike?". And a lot of people have a hard time to imagine the 998 or whatever.

The facelift will probably offer smaller frontlights and LED rear lights, maybe slightly differently shaped. And of course a few changes to the lights in the front bumper but that's it. Can't imagine more.

This is why I think that the next generation 911 will be something spectacular, something new, based on the 911 shape. I'm just afraid that some people might find it a little bit too spectacular.

Regarding Nick's comment about 997 performance: how come that a car which has 45 HP less than his Ferrari F360 has absolutely the same straight line performance and is more than 8 seconds faster on the Nuerburgring Nordschleife?
Did I mention the price tag...almost 1/3 cheaper than the 360 Modena?

What about the 360 Challenge Stradale which is only 3 seconds faster than the 997 Carrera S on the Nordschleife WITH Corsa(!) tires (semi-slicks)?
And the 997 Carrera S even comes to a full stop more than one meter earlier from 200 to 0 kph than the Challenge Stradale with ceramic composite brake and 100 kg less weight. Not to mention the fact that the Challenge Stradale has 60 HP more than the 997 Carrera S and costs more than 60% more.

So as much as I always appreciated

Nick's comments about Porsche cars, I came to my final verdict about him: I don't know him and maybe some people are right if they say he has no clue about sportscars but I actually think he doesn't care about sportscars, all he wants is a nice, fast looking, expensive, fast sounding, brand specific car. Nothing wrong with that, to each his own. But we have a saying here in Germany, it says "Schuster bleib' bei Deinen Leisten" or to translate it in simple English: "shut up if you don't have a clue what you're talking about."

This is why I make an interesing suggestion: car magazines, car forums and of course car manufacturers always make HP figure claims, performance claims, etc., why not introduce a "bling bling factor"? Maybe a number from 1-5 where 5 is the best and 1 the worst?!

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Oct 9, 2004 10:01:42 AM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:
RC said:why not introduce a "bling bling factor"? Maybe a number from 1-5 where 5 is the best and 1 the worst?!

Here is a golf kart that has a 5 out of 5 bling-bling rating!

what do you think nick?

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Oct 9, 2004 10:23:57 AM

jomana123456: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 137, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:
RC said:
why not introduce a "bling bling factor"? Maybe a number from 1-5 where 5 is the best and 1 the worst?!

RC, finally you are starting to understand what I've been saying for a while.

I'm sorry but nowadays it's all about the Bling-Bling baby!

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Oct 9, 2004 10:26:03 AM

jomana123456: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 137, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: avedon

Re: Car and Driver review of the 997S

Quote:
avedon said:
probably you drive F cars just to be noticed.

What's wrong with that?
Do you really think that most Ferrari and Lambo owners bought their cars for the performance?

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