Crown

Also so far outside of the highways the speed is limited to 45mph (autosteer part) which renders it useless when the speed limit is above 40mph.

Whoopsy:

Joost:

Whoopsy:

Lol I just got divorced in Feb 

Really? Oh man, that sucks! Wishing you strength mate! Hope all is well with you and your kids. Take care!

Lol does it look like I am sad? I am having the best time of my life here in Germany with the GT2RS 

Happy to hear that Nick! Have fun! 

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

Whoopsy:

Lol I just got divorced in Feb 

That’s what happens when you give your wife a million dollars for her checking account.,

You get replaced by some young stud who spends YOUR money. 

There is nothing stronger than gentleness.

nberry:

Whoopsy:

Lol I just got divorced in Feb 

That’s what happens when you give your wife a million dollars for her checking account.,

You get replaced by some young stud who spends YOUR money. 

 She gets a few more millions on top of that. And a few cars, including the 911R. Don't care, wasn't my favourite car to begin with.

Split is amicable, we stay friends. And she is still always around the house for the kids.

Glad you worked out an amicable deal. These things can turn really ugly.

SciFrog:

Glad you worked out an amicable deal. These things can turn really ugly.

Believe it or not, we didn't involve a single lawyer 

You Tesla fanboys were saying? 😂

Range...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

In Sport mode, 2.5 ton truck...over 600 mi range in N mode.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (May 2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

https://amp.businessinsider.com/why-tesla-critics-and-fans-are-both-wrong-2019-4

something for everyone

There is nothing stronger than gentleness.

SciFrog:

Yes, but it is not the latest anymore.

Once-hailed 'Tesla Killer' Audi e-tron slows down production to just 6 hrs/day

https://apple.news/AB_g5pzBYQpqBFvDC5rH4zg

I think it's worth mentioning that Audi dealers in the US will not even have an Etron in stock at any given time. It's special order only. How can you take a car company's product serious if dealers won't even stock it? It seems like they didn't expect to sell many.

Yes, as opposed to a company taking deposits for cars that don't even exist yet and don't know when if ever they are going to start to work on? Oh, the irony...

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

keithw:

SciFrog:

Yes, but it is not the latest anymore.

Once-hailed 'Tesla Killer' Audi e-tron slows down production to just 6 hrs/day

https://apple.news/AB_g5pzBYQpqBFvDC5rH4zg

I think it's worth mentioning that Audi dealers in the US will not even have an Etron in stock at any given time. It's special order only. How can you take a car company's product serious if dealers won't even stock it? It seems like they didn't expect to sell many.

Because Audi spending millions and millions on a U.S. ad campaign for the e-tron means the automaker isn’t serious about selling this vehicle in this market.  https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/audis-new-campaign-tries-debunk-electric-vehicle-misperceptions/2162776

Audi of America has explained in great detail why the e-tron is order only several months ago.  This approach is designed to maximize dealer per unit profit on EVs and to stimulate sales at the dealer level.  https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a23455384/audi-e-tron-no-dealerships/. What you might find amazing is that a business unit of an automaker actually put some thought into its product introduction process instead of the so-called Internet business model chaos employed by a certain brand.    

Carlos, so far Tesla has not failed to deliver the cars people order and deposits have been refundable. I was told this is a high-end car forum, and surely you are aware that the highest calibre products in the automotive world require large deposits long before the cars are ready. The hybrid Mercedes One and Aston Martin Valkyrie required enormous deposits and still are not in production.

Tesla did not force anyone to place a deposit. People willingly did so for reasons of their own.

CGX car nut:

Audi of America has explained in great detail why the e-tron is order only several months ago.  This approach is designed to maximize dealer per unit profit on EVs and to stimulate sales at the dealer level.  https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a23455384/audi-e-tron-no-dealerships/. What you might find amazing is that a business unit of an automaker actually put some thought into its product introduction process instead of the so-called Internet business model chaos employed by a certain brand.    

You are trying to spin this for some reason. The thought you suggest they put into this is really "We don't have any confidence in demand for our car." You're trying to spin this as Audi doing right from a business perspective, when in fact they are just trying to mitigate the damages from a likely failure. I assure you, they would much rather have hundreds of thousands of deposits and dealer lots full of Etrons, but they know the demand doesn't exist.

Tesla is selling hundreds of thousands of cars per year. Surely Audi could afford each dealer having at least a single car in stock. No one has suggested dealers should have lots full of them, but it's hard to believe having a car or two would be problematic.

If every Audi dealer can't sell a single Etron from inventory, that tells us all we need to know about the demand. And this is at launch. This is not dead inventory 5 years into production. This is dealers not having cars at launch, all the while Audi is pushing these multi-million dollar ad campaigns for cars that aren't even in stock.

The Audi Etron ad campaign is more about the brand than the car itself. They want to start showing the brand as an EV brand. They likely know the Etron isn't going to sell well already.

keithw:

Carlos, so far Tesla has not failed to deliver the cars people order and deposits have been refundable. I was told this is a high-end car forum, and surely you are aware that the highest calibre products in the automotive world require large deposits long before the cars are ready. The hybrid Mercedes One and Aston Martin Valkyrie required enormous deposits and still are not in production.

Tesla did not force anyone to place a deposit. People willingly did so for reasons of their own.

Wow, never thought I'd get to see that, comparing Teslas to the Mercedes One or the AM Valkyrie .... yet it was you that criticized Audi for their sales model for the E-Tron when Tesla barely has dealerships with stocks to begin, with and takes deposits for cars that don't even exist, which is the big difference to the One or Valkyrie, or even the Taycan which also requires the deposit BTW.

Personally I don't see a problem with deposits, but for cars that are in development and with a date, not a cash grab to finance the company, like Tesla with the Roadster.

Out of curiosity Keith, so we know were you are coming from, what is or has been your relationship with Tesla? employee, owner, or neither and just a fan?

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

We had a Model S for a few years but sold it last year when we moved. We're a pretty outdoorsy family and take the kid, dogs, and gear a lot, so we needed something with more space and height in the trunk. I wanted a Model X, but my wife vetoed it.

I'm in generally just an EV/technology nerd. Not partial to any brand, but Tesla has been the only game in town until recently. The Etron was a bit of a let down for me and not big enough for what we want and the Model Y didn't excite me either, but I do think the Rivian truck/SUV is very cool. Hopefully something like that makes it into production soon.

Regarding the Tesla sales model though, they may not have dealers, but they definitely have inventory. You can get cars very quickly and still test drive them at many locations. I don't know about their future, but you have always been able to see and drive Teslas at various retail locations.

keithw:

CGX car nut:

Audi of America has explained in great detail why the e-tron is order only several months ago.  This approach is designed to maximize dealer per unit profit on EVs and to stimulate sales at the dealer level.  https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a23455384/audi-e-tron-no-dealerships/. What you might find amazing is that a business unit of an automaker actually put some thought into its product introduction process instead of the so-called Internet business model chaos employed by a certain brand.    

You are trying to spin this for some reason. The thought you suggest they put into this is really "We don't have any confidence in demand for our car." You're trying to spin this as Audi doing right from a business perspective, when in fact they are just trying to mitigate the damages from a likely failure. I assure you, they would much rather have hundreds of thousands of deposits and dealer lots full of Etrons, but they know the demand doesn't exist.

Tesla is selling hundreds of thousands of cars per year. Surely Audi could afford each dealer having at least a single car in stock. No one has suggested dealers should have lots full of them, but it's hard to believe having a car or two would be problematic.

If every Audi dealer can't sell a single Etron from inventory, that tells us all we need to know about the demand. And this is at launch. This is not dead inventory 5 years into production. This is dealers not having cars at launch, all the while Audi is pushing these multi-million dollar ad campaigns for cars that aren't even in stock.

The Audi Etron ad campaign is more about the brand than the car itself. They want to start showing the brand as an EV brand. They likely know the Etron isn't going to sell well already.

Just “Wow!”  Do you have any understanding of how the dealership business model works?  If you did, you would not be making such ludicrous statements.  

Premium vehicles built to a client’s personal specifications always require earnest money just like any other bespoke item.  

CGX, Audi dealers even in California or regions where some amount of EV sales are an absolute given, will not have Etrons in inventory. Why is this? Why would you not provide inventory to dealers who may want cars and customer bases who would like to test them or buy them on sight? Audi has no problem providing inventory of poor selling R8s with few to no buyers. Why is the Etron unique? Either dealers don't want them or Audi doesn't want to supply them. There is no logical reason in which demand is good and the cars are by choice not in stock anywhere.

Regarding earnest money, those bespoke vehicles aren't in production and the specifications can be changed even after the deposit is due. Mercedes likely does not sweat a million euro at the end of the day and it's almost certain that any specification car will be easily sold whether the buyer backs out or not. If this was not true, no one would buy used Ferrari LaFerraris or Porsche 918 Spyders that they did not specify themselves. The fact remains that taking deposits for any products, whether in production or not, is normal. This is especially true for high-demand, limited supply luxury goods.

Tesla took hundreds of thousands of deposits and has been delivering on vast amounts of those deposits. I don't see the problem. I'd note that Standard Range Model 3s have since begun deliveries to some extent. So far Tesla has continued to deliver to their customers. No deposit was forced and thus far no deposit has been lost.

Institutional equity investors reported to be reacting to the slowdown in Tesla sales... 

"Tesla holdings slashed by T. Rowe Price funds in latest cuts by investor"

(18 April 2019)

(Reuters) - T. Rowe Price funds slashed Tesla Inc holdings in the first quarter, data showed on Wednesday, as the institutional investor continued to cut its positions in the electric vehicle maker. 

The firm, which has been one of the largest investors in the Silicon Valley company, sold off 92 percent of its prior holdings in the company during the quarter, Refinitiv data showed. 

That drop represented the funds for which Refinitiv has data, which may not include all T. Rowe Price funds, which are managed by T. Rowe Price Group Inc. 

Neither Tesla nor T. Rowe Price were immediately available to comment after normal business hours. 

The data showed sales between the end of last year and March 31 that ranged from 25 percent of holdings in the T. Rowe Price Global Growth Stock Fund to 100 percent of holdings at the Growth Stock Fund, which had held 2.1 million shares. 

In total, six funds cut their Tesla holdings by 100 percent. 

T. Rowe Price’s next-largest Tesla holding, within the Blue Chip Growth Fund, with 1.8 million shares, was cut by 82 percent. 

Most recently, T. Rowe Price reduced its stake in the fourth-quarter of last year by roughly half, ending December with a 5.2 percent stake in the company overall versus 10.12 percent in September. 

Shares of Tesla fell 16 percent during the first quarter, a difficult period for the company marked by a sharp drop in deliveries of its Model 3, and Chief Executive Elon Musk’s public battle in the courts with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. 

Link:  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-t-rowe-price-grp/tesla-holdings-slashed-by-t-rowe-price-funds-in-latest-cuts-by-investo...

...Tesla credit ratings may be under further pressure following Q1 results... 

keithw:

CGX, Audi dealers even in California or regions where some amount of EV sales are an absolute given, will not have Etrons in inventory. Why is this? Why would you not provide inventory to dealers who may want cars and customer bases who would like to test them or buy them on sight? Audi has no problem providing inventory of poor selling R8s with few to no buyers. Why is the Etron unique? Either dealers don't want them or Audi doesn't want to supply them. There is no logical reason in which demand is good and the cars are by choice not in stock anywhere.

Regarding earnest money, those bespoke vehicles aren't in production and the specifications can be changed even after the deposit is due. Mercedes likely does not sweat a million euro at the end of the day and it's almost certain that any specification car will be easily sold whether the buyer backs out or not. If this was not true, no one would buy used Ferrari LaFerraris or Porsche 918 Spyders that they did not specify themselves. The fact remains that taking deposits for any products, whether in production or not, is normal. This is especially true for high-demand, limited supply luxury goods.

Tesla took hundreds of thousands of deposits and has been delivering on vast amounts of those deposits. I don't see the problem. I'd note that Standard Range Model 3s have since begun deliveries to some extent. So far Tesla has continued to deliver to their customers. No deposit was forced and thus far no deposit has been lost.

keithw,

As a moderator of the forum, I am giving one and last warning. If you continue to provoke other members here, YOU WILL BE BANNED since you are not acting like an adult and play nice with others. You will not be the first, we have banned quite a few whose purpose is only to provoke.

I have already mentioned at least couple times for both sides to tone it down, but it would seems you prefer to escalate. 

As you said, this is a high end car forum, Tesla is not a 'high end' car. Some members do have Teslas but they are not their only primary car, more like a toy. 

You are free to quote and respond to this post directly, but let me remind you that you should choose your words carefully.

Whoopsy, Thank you for your words and warning.  Messaging with provocation implies ulterior motives on the part of that poster.  For example, and I will drop the point after this post, is to state that Audi dealers in the States have no inventory of e-trons.  Of course not, the car launches next month.  

Returning to Tesla specific news, the Company is reducing its board seats by four with two removed this year and two next year.  The two leaving the board in 2020 are long time board members Jurvetson and Gracias.   It is surprising that Jurvetson, while on leave, still has that seat.  He and Gracias are also big investors in SpaceX.  

Spooky:

https://apple.news/A7ceEk7oESUOfBU1IR8b4Lg 

I have little interest in communicating with you Whoopsy because you show extreme biased based on seemingly uninformed opinions. You have not owned a Tesla as far as I can tell, yet you made the following blanket claim. Unless you owned a Tesla for a meaningful amount of time, you would have little to no real world long-term experience with AP to know how well or poorly it works in every day use.

Autopilot, from Tesla is NOT actually autopilot, it's just a gimmick for a more advanced version of cruise control, nothing more and nothing less. But it's a shit system, who th ehell in the right mind would want such a dumb system that has more confirmed kill of the drivers than a F35 fighter jet, a war machine. 

Audi is smart to not include nay of those ballast in their etron, a EV is heavy enough. 

Since I am unknown here, perhaps SciFrog, Xander, Schmoell, WM88, or other long-term members can chime in here and give their opinion on whether your assessment of AP is accurate or not?

As written elsewhere, the AP in my P100D was designed to kill me; and I really mean it. It has been quite good some software versions back but that second but latest update made it unusable (for me). Meanwhile I activate it only, when I'm in try-out mode or stuck in a traffic jam. When comparing it to Distronic Plus in my previous C63S (which was a 5yr old system) I'd say, that it is slightly more advanced but not by a big margin. Anyway, no matter how good these systems are, you always have to keep your hands on the wheel and beside paying attention to your surroundings you have to pay attention to your car. Why Tesla called it "Autopilot" is beyond me

SciFrog:

Spooky:

https://apple.news/A7ceEk7oESUOfBU1IR8b4Lg 

If true, and one has no reason to disagree with the contentions, this is absolutely unacceptable.   I hope Tesla is able to quash this egregious behavior.  

SciFrog:

Spooky:

https://apple.news/A7ceEk7oESUOfBU1IR8b4Lg 

It's sad what people will do just to try and make a few bucks and impede progress of a company doing good things. The short-sellers of Tesla are a peculiar bunch. The riches gained on the way up were vastly more than can be obtained on the way down. It sounds like people mainly late to the party.

If you bought the IPO, you'd be up 16x. What do you stand to make on the way down?

It makes a lot of sense to be short the stock. But this is too far...

SciFrog:

It makes a lot of sense to be short the stock. But this is too far...

Perhaps or perhaps not, but so far there wasn't been much money made. A broken clock is correct twice per day. Overall the longs have crushed the shorts. I don't personally have a dog in this fight, but the most notorious shorts of Tesla has had terrible investment performance for quite some time now. How many billionaire (now former billionaire) shorts need to be wrong on their Tesla short before people discover it might not be that great of an investment idea?

Not sure if anyone ever posted this, but it seems like the Model 3 is quite a bit more "sports car" than was first thought. 
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2019/tesla-model-3-performance-track-mode-release-version-review/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGZ04_HLac

Model 3: 1:21.49
Porsche Cayman GT4: 1:21.47
Porsche 718 Boxster S: 1:23.05

keithw:

Not sure if anyone ever posted this, but it seems like the Model 3 is quite a bit more "sports car" than was first thought. 
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2019/tesla-model-3-performance-track-mode-release-version-review/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGZ04_HLac

Model 3: 1:21.49
Porsche Cayman GT4: 1:21.47
Porsche 718 Boxster S: 1:23.05

 

You have a lot to learn about what a sportscar is or means, you can't have more ofowhat you have zero of to begin with.  Instant electric torque to get around fast a short enough track so that it can do a lap before it overheats into limp mode has nothing to do with a sportscar, no matter the lap time. An Urus can probably lap faster than an Alta 4C in some tracks, doesn't make it more of a sportscar.

I suggest you try to sell and promote other qualities of the Models 3 than sportiness next time, you will have better luck in this crowd, this is a real sportscar enthusiast forum...

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS