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Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
What a broken record this is....
And you say they have a "lack" of safety equipment?
All they lack are side airbags. They have just about everything else P does, PLUS a stiffer structure.
I am getting SICK of reading this honestly. There exotic
sports cars, not 4 door everyday sedans for gods sake!
And you say they have a "lack" of safety equipment?
All they lack are side airbags. They have just about everything else P does, PLUS a stiffer structure.
I am getting SICK of reading this honestly. There exotic
sports cars, not 4 door everyday sedans for gods sake!
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
mr blue camaro
it appears that 67% of our list members DO care!
at the risk of being repetitive, a stiff structure will not prevent brain damage in a serious side impact collision. 
f430's are road cars not just exotic racers. side/widow airbags are now offered even in economy cars. imo, their absence in f430's is inexcusible and short sighted. the first lawsuit from an enraged spouse regarding ferrari's negligence in this regard will wipe out any additional profit ferrari made by excluding the side airbags. 
remember that the u.s. is ferrari's largest market.
it appears that 67% of our list members DO care!
at the risk of being repetitive, a stiff structure will not prevent brain damage in a serious side impact collision. f430's are road cars not just exotic racers. side/widow airbags are now offered even in economy cars. imo, their absence in f430's is inexcusible and short sighted. the first lawsuit from an enraged spouse regarding ferrari's negligence in this regard will wipe out any additional profit ferrari made by excluding the side airbags. remember that the u.s. is ferrari's largest market.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
BluCamSS said:
...They have just about everything else P does, PLUS a stiffer structure.
They may have now a stiffer stucture than the previous F-car model did, but... to say that their cabin is stiffer than the 911's needs proof, and not even they claimed that.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
A Ferrari is not your everyday car. I bet many would DELETE all the airbags if they could to save weight. As a matter of fact with the F430s new E-diff features and so on it has MORE safety features then many cars, and it's a exotic sports car not a Volvo. It still has dual airbags, ABS, seatbelts, traction control, stability control, E-diff, crumple zones,a super stiff structure etc. Remember there are very strong laws in the USA regarding safety, the F430 passes 2007, yes 2007 safety tests and the numbers were good enough that side airbags (and there added weight) we deemed not necessary. I may not own a Ferrari yet, but in my 3 cars the only one I like all the airbags in is my G35, because I drive it everyday. I'm glad that my others don't have excessive airbags, and the added weight that comes with them. My, and many others opinions.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
I wholeheartly agree with your mission. Because of the lack of side airbags, safety conscious buyers should not buy the F430.
The less people competing for the coveted allocations to buy one is music to my ears.
Hmnn is it possible you are having difficulty getting on the list for one?
The less people competing for the coveted allocations to buy one is music to my ears.
Hmnn is it possible you are having difficulty getting on the list for one?
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
An airbag weights about 1-2kgs.
TWO KILOS for a device that saved countless lives.
You pretend you don't want airbags because of the WEIGHT added? That's pure hypocrisy.
And hilarious.
I bet those 26 or so ferrari badges weight more than the airbags. I see nobody asking for a 'badge delete' option
And nick called porsche guys blind and biased.. how are ferrari fanboys then?
TWO KILOS for a device that saved countless lives.
You pretend you don't want airbags because of the WEIGHT added? That's pure hypocrisy.
And hilarious.
I bet those 26 or so ferrari badges weight more than the airbags. I see nobody asking for a 'badge delete' option
And nick called porsche guys blind and biased.. how are ferrari fanboys then?
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
brunner said:
An airbag weights about 1-2kgs.
TWO KILOS for a device that saved countless lives.
You pretend you don't want airbags because of the WEIGHT added? That's pure hypocrisy.
And hilarious.
I bet those 26 or so ferrari badges weight more than the airbags. I see nobody asking for a 'badge delete' option
And nick called porsche guys blind and biased.. how are ferrari fanboys then?
Brunner, we are all very competitive whether in defending cars or racing them. That is why we are sport car enthusiast.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
brunner said:
An airbag weights about 1-2kgs.
TWO KILOS for a device that saved countless lives.
Wrong. The airbags, explosive devices and sensors and up to ALOT more weight then that. A friend removed all airbag related devices when he made his cr into a off-road race car. Total was nearly 75 plus pounds..........I look at it this way, you want 10 airbags, buy a Volvo or BMW.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
I've carefully read the threads here and on fchat about side airbags. I've already posted that, as a Ferrari client, I am completely satisfied with the safety features of the 575, 360M and 360CS, all of which I've owned.
If the point of these threads is to lobby Ferrari to put side airbags in its cars, I can't object - how could I? You say yea, I say nay, we move on.
Unfortunately, the threads contain fairly serious allegations about the safety of Ferrari's cars. I do not agree, for example, that the absence of airbags in the F430 is "inexcusable and shortsighted." I very strongly disagree with any claim that Ferrari have been "negligent" in the design of the F430 or any other model. No one has, in any thread I've seen, presented any evidence impugning in the slightest the crashworthiness of any Ferrari.
I find the reference to a lawsuit by an "enraged spouse" chilling. IMO we live in a chicken society in which it has become inconceivable that a misfortune should be endured without compensation. No doubt the physicians contributing to these threads have felt the sting of rising malpractice insurance premiums! I fear that someday the suit happy lynch mobs will tire of asbestos, guns, etc, and turn to high performance autos, arguing that no car should travel more than, say, 80 mph. Perhaps the manufacturers should begin to protect themselves from the greed and stupidity of the "enraged spouse" by insisting that the buyer sign a waiver of liability. I would sign without hesitation.
Though I respect the opinions of those who've argued for side airbags - some of whom write from sad experience - I'd suggest to you that there are some of us who simply do not want them in our sportscars. You may find it crazy but, as BluCam suggests, I would delete all of the airbags if I could. Of course, I'd request the factory harnesses and rollbar, which the US govt prohibits. Some people ride motorcycles, some smoke, some like their sportscars as raw and barebones as possible; you may disapprove, but off we go nonetheless.
That said, I'd be inclined to delete some of the insignias. Years ago, when I ordered a 996 (now sold), I had them deleted.
If the point of these threads is to lobby Ferrari to put side airbags in its cars, I can't object - how could I? You say yea, I say nay, we move on.
Unfortunately, the threads contain fairly serious allegations about the safety of Ferrari's cars. I do not agree, for example, that the absence of airbags in the F430 is "inexcusable and shortsighted." I very strongly disagree with any claim that Ferrari have been "negligent" in the design of the F430 or any other model. No one has, in any thread I've seen, presented any evidence impugning in the slightest the crashworthiness of any Ferrari.
I find the reference to a lawsuit by an "enraged spouse" chilling. IMO we live in a chicken society in which it has become inconceivable that a misfortune should be endured without compensation. No doubt the physicians contributing to these threads have felt the sting of rising malpractice insurance premiums! I fear that someday the suit happy lynch mobs will tire of asbestos, guns, etc, and turn to high performance autos, arguing that no car should travel more than, say, 80 mph. Perhaps the manufacturers should begin to protect themselves from the greed and stupidity of the "enraged spouse" by insisting that the buyer sign a waiver of liability. I would sign without hesitation.
Though I respect the opinions of those who've argued for side airbags - some of whom write from sad experience - I'd suggest to you that there are some of us who simply do not want them in our sportscars. You may find it crazy but, as BluCam suggests, I would delete all of the airbags if I could. Of course, I'd request the factory harnesses and rollbar, which the US govt prohibits. Some people ride motorcycles, some smoke, some like their sportscars as raw and barebones as possible; you may disapprove, but off we go nonetheless.
That said, I'd be inclined to delete some of the insignias. Years ago, when I ordered a 996 (now sold), I had them deleted.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
BluCamSS said:Quote:
brunner said:
An airbag weights about 1-2kgs.
TWO KILOS for a device that saved countless lives.
Wrong. The airbags, explosive devices and sensors and up to ALOT more weight then that. A friend removed all airbag related devices when he made his cr into a off-road race car. Total was nearly 75 plus pounds..........
Usually the airbag together with the explosive device weights about 2.5kgs.
That must be one hell of a sensor, to take the weight to 30kgs.
To those anal about weight saving (by deleting the airbag): have you considered a diet? I'm pretty sure you can put 10-20kg down..
Note: i don't really care if ferrari puts airbags or not. I don't care if people preffer having bare metal hitting their head.
It's their choice. Mine would be different.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Yesterday, I watched NBC's Dateline report on the IIHS's latest side-impact testing. I was reminded that the U.S. government's side-impact test requirements and procedures are a joke compared to the IIHS. Here is a brief report:
http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2004/pr100304.htm
It appears that those of you who are against Ferrari incorporating side and head airbags on the basis of weight care more about minute differences in performance figures rather than the paramount safety of their own and their passenger's lives. Please try and convince Ignacio, a neurologist, I believe, and me, a lay-person, that when comparing two identical "stiff" F430's, one with and one without side-airbags, the 430 without side-airbags is the safer version when a driver has the misfortune of being broadsided by an SUV at only 31 mph.
As Ferrari's become more reliable, refined and, as a result, are used more frequently as daily drivers, I believe the customer must have the option of additional safety. Make it an optional extra. Charge more. But at least have the courtesy to offer the added safety. Ferrari is supposed to have a close family-type relationship with their customers, correct? Wouldn't it then be fair to say that one family member would do everything possible to ensure that the other stayed out of harm's way? Luca and Jean may, one fine day, get a letter from a satisfied and glad-to-be-alive customer who flirted but did not cross the thin line between life and death in a crash solely due to the side airbags. Which company would not want to hear glad-to-be-alive testimony?
http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2004/pr100304.htm
It appears that those of you who are against Ferrari incorporating side and head airbags on the basis of weight care more about minute differences in performance figures rather than the paramount safety of their own and their passenger's lives. Please try and convince Ignacio, a neurologist, I believe, and me, a lay-person, that when comparing two identical "stiff" F430's, one with and one without side-airbags, the 430 without side-airbags is the safer version when a driver has the misfortune of being broadsided by an SUV at only 31 mph.
As Ferrari's become more reliable, refined and, as a result, are used more frequently as daily drivers, I believe the customer must have the option of additional safety. Make it an optional extra. Charge more. But at least have the courtesy to offer the added safety. Ferrari is supposed to have a close family-type relationship with their customers, correct? Wouldn't it then be fair to say that one family member would do everything possible to ensure that the other stayed out of harm's way? Luca and Jean may, one fine day, get a letter from a satisfied and glad-to-be-alive customer who flirted but did not cross the thin line between life and death in a crash solely due to the side airbags. Which company would not want to hear glad-to-be-alive testimony?
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
WCH said:
I've carefully read the threads here and on fchat about side airbags. I've already posted that, as a Ferrari client, I am completely satisfied with the safety features of the 575, 360M and 360CS, all of which I've owned.
If the point of these threads is to lobby Ferrari to put side airbags in its cars, I can't object - how could I? You say yea, I say nay, we move on.
Unfortunately, the threads contain fairly serious allegations about the safety of Ferrari's cars. I do not agree, for example, that the absence of airbags in the F430 is "inexcusable and shortsighted." I very strongly disagree with any claim that Ferrari have been "negligent" in the design of the F430 or any other model. No one has, in any thread I've seen, presented any evidence impugning in the slightest the crashworthiness of any Ferrari.
I find the reference to a lawsuit by an "enraged spouse" chilling. IMO we live in a chicken society in which it has become inconceivable that a misfortune should be endured without compensation. No doubt the physicians contributing to these threads have felt the sting of rising malpractice insurance premiums! I fear that someday the suit happy lynch mobs will tire of asbestos, guns, etc, and turn to high performance autos, arguing that no car should travel more than, say, 80 mph. Perhaps the manufacturers should begin to protect themselves from the greed and stupidity of the "enraged spouse" by insisting that the buyer sign a waiver of liability. I would sign without hesitation.
Though I respect the opinions of those who've argued for side airbags - some of whom write from sad experience - I'd suggest to you that there are some of us who simply do not want them in our sportscars. You may find it crazy but, as BluCam suggests, I would delete all of the airbags if I could. Of course, I'd request the factory harnesses and rollbar, which the US govt prohibits. Some people ride motorcycles, some smoke, some like their sportscars as raw and barebones as possible; you may disapprove, but off we go nonetheless.
That said, I'd be inclined to delete some of the insignias. Years ago, when I ordered a 996 (now sold), I had them deleted.
mr wch
frankly, i find brain damage a far more chilling prospect than any attorney.
if you don't want airbags, feel free to remove them! no big deal! more sensible folks, i suspect will keep theirs. right now though, we have no choice.
btw, i also suspect it would not be difficult to add a factory roll bar and 4 part factory belts if you like. i don't have the same option with regard to side airbags since they don't exist either as an option or in the aftermarket.
for the weight obsessed, i wonder how many have removed their radios, air conditioners, electric seats, electic windows, sound insulation, etc,etc...
again i state it is careless and negligent in 2005 for ferrari to neglect to offer a standard, life saving, safety feature offered routinely in economy cars. i am not an attorney but i fear that a legal case could be made in this regard in the u.s.--ferrari's biggest market. perhaps mr. berry could enlighten us further in this regard.
as for myself, i would prefer to be a ferrari customer than an expert witness against them. the ball is in ferrari's court.
btw, it appears that, so far about 2/3 of our list members DO care! about 1/4 would not want to own the f430. i'm not surprised.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
nberry said:
I wholeheartly agree with your mission. Because of the lack of side airbags, safety conscious buyers should not buy the F430.
The less people competing for the coveted allocations to buy one is music to my ears.
Hmnn is it possible you are having difficulty getting on the list for one?
mr berry
i have been #2 on the f430 list at my ferrari dealer for nearly a year. i can afford it and intend to use it as my daily driver if i can gather data that it will be as safe as my 996 tt. i continue to keep an open mind in spite of some obvious reservations.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
LOL, a Camaro boy is suddenly an expert on all things Ferrari. That is hilarious.
Bottom line: The national insurance institute says that side airbags reduce fatalities by 45% versus not having them, particularly in low slung sports cars (head impact trauma through passenger window into steel grill or bumper).
Argue all you like, but one of the reasons (though not the main reason) I've chosen the Gallardo is due to Audi's advanced safety cage and side impact air bags on the car.
My two cents.
Bottom line: The national insurance institute says that side airbags reduce fatalities by 45% versus not having them, particularly in low slung sports cars (head impact trauma through passenger window into steel grill or bumper).
Argue all you like, but one of the reasons (though not the main reason) I've chosen the Gallardo is due to Audi's advanced safety cage and side impact air bags on the car.
My two cents.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
Mako88 said:
...Bottom line: The national insurance institute says that side airbags reduce fatalities by 45% versus not having them, particularly in low slung sports cars (head impact trauma through passenger window into steel grill or bumper).
Argue all you like, but one of the reasons (though not the main reason) I've chosen the Gallardo is due to Audi's advanced safety cage and side impact air bags on the car.
My two cents.
Interesting!
Unfortunately this discussion seems to be sort of senseless since a few people tend to blandish undeniable disadvantages. It is about the same discussion wether to smoke or not - US Americans might have a generally different attitude on that issue than Europeans anyway by now...
Ignacio, I unfortunately doubt that the Ferrari will be safer than your 996! On the other hand I would think twice before using the 430 as a daily driver!
Greetings!
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Dr ignacio: Peace! I respect your opinions; you obviously are a fellow enthusiast, given the cars you've owned. Our disagreement may come down to our seeking a slightly different experience from, or having a different use for, the cars.
Airbag removal - It's of course illegal to remove airbags - but I've had it done. I still have the airbags in my Stradale.
Roll bar - I am having a roll bar and harnesses added to my Stradale - should be complete in a week or two.
Weight - I ordered my Stradale without a radio. I considered deleting the air conditioning, and now wish that I had. Had manual windows and seats been an option, I would have ordered both. I don't care about the resale value of the car.
IMO one who can afford an F430 does not need or deserve the protection of the courts on these issues. Presumably we are smart enough to draw our own conclusions about all aspects of the car; if I buy the car, what I should do is drive defensively, enjoy the sound and feel, and not weep about the unfairness of life if I am hurt in my $200,000 toy.
I will hope to meet you and shake your hand at FMoW's track event in a week or two - or perhaps at the Quattroporte event. Regards, Will
Airbag removal - It's of course illegal to remove airbags - but I've had it done. I still have the airbags in my Stradale.
Roll bar - I am having a roll bar and harnesses added to my Stradale - should be complete in a week or two.
Weight - I ordered my Stradale without a radio. I considered deleting the air conditioning, and now wish that I had. Had manual windows and seats been an option, I would have ordered both. I don't care about the resale value of the car.
IMO one who can afford an F430 does not need or deserve the protection of the courts on these issues. Presumably we are smart enough to draw our own conclusions about all aspects of the car; if I buy the car, what I should do is drive defensively, enjoy the sound and feel, and not weep about the unfairness of life if I am hurt in my $200,000 toy.
I will hope to meet you and shake your hand at FMoW's track event in a week or two - or perhaps at the Quattroporte event. Regards, Will
Oct 5, 2004 2:26:47 PM
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Carlos from Spain
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- Reply to: WCH
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Let me thrown in a few point into the discussion:
1* the F430 may have a stiffer chasis than the F360, but there is no such thing as a stiff "enough" chasis, especially on high end sportcars which are more likely involved in higher speed crashes were protection of the chasis is always insuficient. If you slam into a trailer truck side ways at 160km/h what do you think the cabin is going to look like or in roll overs with folowing impact while upside down.
2* the F430 may be stiffer than the F360 but by all means its not the stiffest chasis most secure chasis' around, I know a VW that is stiffer than the F430.
3* A stiff chasis will not protect your head from whiplashing around on a side impact or protect it from hitting the chasis.
4* Like Mako pointed out, what about the window? especially on a low stance sportcar were its windows aperture is right on par with the protruding bumper of the popular 2+tons SUV and trucks?
5* Given the history of Ferrari in terms of passive safety, right up until the very last model previous to the F430, I'm not likely to just take their word for granted on safety issues. This added to the fact that Ferrari is a small company, with very small volume production cars and therefore doesn't have the crash testing development and research nor facilities or infrastructure. And also gets away with a lot more due to their low volume and lack of stast, etc. And tradictionally on a exotic sportcar market were passive safety was not the biggest priority compared to family cars for example.
6* The may gripe is not wether each personally wants airbags or not, but that there is no option for those that want it. Ignacio knows very well what happens when you don have side airbags and he wants them in his F430, and there is no logical reason why it should be an option. They should be offered nowadays and those that don't want them can have then deleted, but the choice should be given. To each his own, I've used to do "street" racing in souped up 2-stroke motorbikes as an adolescent and without any helmets or protective gear at all! regretably some fellow riders of mine of the time are not alive anymore to tell me what I now know when I look back upon it: that was an unmeasurably stupid thing to do, can't believe it.
7* I'm still confused why Ferrari does not offer them, but maybe they don't want to divert the focus into passive safety features so as not to dilute the raw radical sportcar image since image to Ferrari is everything in terms of sales, without their "image" they wouldn't be able to fill completely even those reduced production lists.
7* Those 5 kilos of aibags are sure going to render the most expensive 0,0000001 secs in track lap time improvement in terms of human lives and disabilities. Yet, the F430 will have Goodyear runflats (at least in option if not standard) :P :P :P can someone explain that one to me?????
Just a few random thoughts on the matter...
1* the F430 may have a stiffer chasis than the F360, but there is no such thing as a stiff "enough" chasis, especially on high end sportcars which are more likely involved in higher speed crashes were protection of the chasis is always insuficient. If you slam into a trailer truck side ways at 160km/h what do you think the cabin is going to look like or in roll overs with folowing impact while upside down.
2* the F430 may be stiffer than the F360 but by all means its not the stiffest chasis most secure chasis' around, I know a VW that is stiffer than the F430.
3* A stiff chasis will not protect your head from whiplashing around on a side impact or protect it from hitting the chasis.
4* Like Mako pointed out, what about the window? especially on a low stance sportcar were its windows aperture is right on par with the protruding bumper of the popular 2+tons SUV and trucks?
5* Given the history of Ferrari in terms of passive safety, right up until the very last model previous to the F430, I'm not likely to just take their word for granted on safety issues. This added to the fact that Ferrari is a small company, with very small volume production cars and therefore doesn't have the crash testing development and research nor facilities or infrastructure. And also gets away with a lot more due to their low volume and lack of stast, etc. And tradictionally on a exotic sportcar market were passive safety was not the biggest priority compared to family cars for example.
6* The may gripe is not wether each personally wants airbags or not, but that there is no option for those that want it. Ignacio knows very well what happens when you don have side airbags and he wants them in his F430, and there is no logical reason why it should be an option. They should be offered nowadays and those that don't want them can have then deleted, but the choice should be given. To each his own, I've used to do "street" racing in souped up 2-stroke motorbikes as an adolescent and without any helmets or protective gear at all! regretably some fellow riders of mine of the time are not alive anymore to tell me what I now know when I look back upon it: that was an unmeasurably stupid thing to do, can't believe it.
7* I'm still confused why Ferrari does not offer them, but maybe they don't want to divert the focus into passive safety features so as not to dilute the raw radical sportcar image since image to Ferrari is everything in terms of sales, without their "image" they wouldn't be able to fill completely even those reduced production lists.
7* Those 5 kilos of aibags are sure going to render the most expensive 0,0000001 secs in track lap time improvement in terms of human lives and disabilities. Yet, the F430 will have Goodyear runflats (at least in option if not standard) :P :P :P can someone explain that one to me?????
Just a few random thoughts on the matter...
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
ignacio said:Quote:
nberry said:
I wholeheartly agree with your mission. Because of the lack of side airbags, safety conscious buyers should not buy the F430.
The less people competing for the coveted allocations to buy one is music to my ears.
Hmnn is it possible you are having difficulty getting on the list for one?
mr berry
i have been #2 on the f430 list at my ferrari dealer for nearly a year. i can afford it and intend to use it as my daily driver if i can gather data that it will be as safe as my 996 tt. i continue to keep an open mind in spite of some obvious reservations.
All joking aside would I like Ferrari to install side airbags? Sure. The weight and cost is a non issue.
Would the failure of Ferrari to install side airbags stop me from buying their car. HELL NO!
Your TT is a better commuter car and probably safer. Knowing what you know about Ferrari the car, why would you consider buying one and placing your name on a list? Stick with your "safe" Porsche.
I expect my 430 first quarter of next year. If your # 2 at your dealer, give me your allocation. I would not mind owning two F430's.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
nberry said:
...Your TT is a better commuter car and probably safer. Knowing what you know about Ferrari the car, why would you consider buying one and placing your name on a list? Stick with your "safe" Porsche...
Aah, looks like you just don't want to face it.
Of course you can buy such a car without airbags and be happy with it, several exotics are in line on that issue - but if I'd have the chance to do so as a major company I would certainly consider the side airbags an option people are obviously willing to pay for!
On the technical side I believe that Ferrari just isn't able to properly integrate side airbags into the car. The Golf Mk.III for example didn't have a real advantage with airbags since the chassis wasn't adapted to it. Same might occur with the 360's chassis which was developed several years back. I don't think that Ferrari considered side airbags an issue back then.
Does the Scaglietti have side airbags? If not, I suppose side airbags are still not an issue for them...
Let's just face it: you can easily survive an frontal crash without airbags due to proper (racing) seatbelts and enough safety space between you and the steering wheel. This space is non-existent on the vehicle's side - and I don't think you drive with racing bucket and helmet day in and out.
Of course, if I am just posing around like some people here seem to do -
- I obviously don't have to fear that issues... Sad.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
Ferdie said:
On the technical side I believe that Ferrari just isn't able to properly integrate side airbags into the car. The Golf Mk.III for example didn't have a real advantage with airbags since the chassis wasn't adapted to it. Same might occur with the 360's chassis which was developed several years back. I don't think that Ferrari considered side airbags an issue back then.
Does the Scaglietti have side airbags? If not, I suppose side airbags are still not an issue for them...
I thought the same, that Ferrari can't integrate side airbags in their current models. The 360 was 5 years on the market, so chassis is about twice as old.
But then, also the 612 doesn't have side bags, its chassis should be half as old. They surely could have integrated them into the new model. All the Maserati have them as well (am I right with that?). So it seems, F obviously doesn't care about side/window bags.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
Mako88 said:
LOL, a Camaro boy is suddenly an expert on all things Ferrari. That is hilarious.
Bottom line: The national insurance institute says that side airbags reduce fatalities by 45% versus not having them, particularly in low slung sports cars (head impact trauma through passenger window into steel grill or bumper).
Argue all you like, but one of the reasons (though not the main reason) I've chosen the Gallardo is due to Audi's advanced safety cage and side impact air bags on the car.
My two cents.
Lambo TROLL, before you come in here stating about Audi's "safety cage" look around at other boards, the Gallardos are not fairing well in accidents at all. Not that it matters, theres a backlog on G's, and nobody seems to want them....
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
I think we are missing one serious point. All German cars imported to the US now have both side and head/curtain airbags and they serve two very different purposes. If the F430 is stiff enough that it does not require side airbags, than that is okay. The side airbags protect the torso in a side-impact accident. However, no matter how stiff the car is, it stills needs a head/curtain airbag. In side impacts, the head is allowed to move freely and that is the problem. If there is no protection for the head, then chances are the occupant will either die or be seriously hurt from a head injury. This can occur from the head hitting either the inside of the car or the other car.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
FelixC said:
I think we are missing one serious point. All German cars imported to the US now have both side and head/curtain airbags and they serve two very different purposes. If the F430 is stiff enough that it does not require side airbags, than that is okay. The side airbags protect the torso in a side-impact accident. However, no matter how stiff the car is, it stills needs a head/curtain airbag. In side impacts, the head is allowed to move freely and that is the problem. If there is no protection for the head, then chances are the occupant will either die or be seriously hurt from a head injury. This can occur from the head hitting either the inside of the car or the other car.
Good point. Unfortunately, sports car addictions for most guys are emotional phenomena....death is probably an OK choice for many, but I suspect life in a wheelchair/as a vegetable of some sort is a less sexy alternative that guys choose to not calculate. But to each his own.....and when F has multi-yr waitlists in US for 430/612, why would F care about maximizing safety for its risk and visceral thrill-seeking addicts? The clinical guys focused on N-ring times and safety issues can opt for 996TTS.....
...and watch 360/430 pals roll the dice; enjoy an arguably more emotionally involving toy; and deal w/any, highly unlikely unsexy sequelae...
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
BluCamSS said:
Lambo TROLL, before you come in here stating about Audi's "safety cage" look around at other boards, the Gallardos are not fairing well in accidents at all. Not that it matters, theres a backlog on G's, and nobody seems to want them....
LOL again we get the opinion of a clown who doesn't own, and will never own, either a Ferrari or a Lambo.
But hey, I'll play. Go ahead and post the links as you stated to "other boards" that feature Gallardos not fairing well in accidents. I'd like to learn more about it as safety is one of the issues that I evaluate whenever I purchase a new sportscar. The Gallardo offers side/head impact airbags, and that's a major plus. No debating it. Everyone from Volvo on down to your average low-brow Camaro owner agrees.
But I would really like to see more data regarding Gallardo crash performance. Awaiting the links...
MAKO
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
BluCamSS said:Quote:
Mako88 said:
LOL, a Camaro boy is suddenly an expert on all things Ferrari. That is hilarious.
Bottom line: The national insurance institute says that side airbags reduce fatalities by 45% versus not having them, particularly in low slung sports cars (head impact trauma through passenger window into steel grill or bumper).
Argue all you like, but one of the reasons (though not the main reason) I've chosen the Gallardo is due to Audi's advanced safety cage and side impact air bags on the car.
My two cents.
theres a backlog on G's, and nobody seems to want them....
i am sure you wrote that sentence without thinking ...i can assure you i could find 6 billion persons in this world who would die not to own a gallardo ,but just to sit in one...
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
dhayek said:
...i am sure you wrote that sentence without thinking ...i can assure you i could find 6 billion persons in this world who would die not to own a gallardo ,but just to sit in one...
Admittedly I would rather prefer the Murcie over the Gallardo, but hey...
Oh by the way, chose your words please!
VK, agree with you - but I remember someone here who actually bought a TTS!
Felix,
I heavily doubt that the 430 is any stiffer than its predecessor - and this means it won't beat its rivals, even less without the sidebags!
Anyways, Porsche divided the side protection system into side and separate head-curtain airbags on the 997. I can only speculate that racing buckets will provide enough safety to skip the first, while your head is still protected with the second ones if not being in a racing situation and dress!
Anyways, let's pray that none of us will ever need those items!
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
dhayek said:Quote:
BluCamSS said:Quote:
Mako88 said:
LOL, a Camaro boy is suddenly an expert on all things Ferrari. That is hilarious.
Bottom line: The national insurance institute says that side airbags reduce fatalities by 45% versus not having them, particularly in low slung sports cars (head impact trauma through passenger window into steel grill or bumper).
Argue all you like, but one of the reasons (though not the main reason) I've chosen the Gallardo is due to Audi's advanced safety cage and side impact air bags on the car.
My two cents.
theres a backlog on G's, and nobody seems to want them....
i am sure you wrote that sentence without thinking ...i can assure you i could find 6 billion persons in this world who would die not to own a gallardo ,but just to sit in one...
Well you need to check into things ALOT more. In the USA there SITTING on dealership floors, well under MSRP and there resale is horrible. So apparently the people who can affored them, dont't want them.
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
Ferdie said:Quote:
dhayek said:
...i am sure you wrote that sentence without thinking ...i can assure you i could find 6 billion persons in this world who would die not to own a gallardo ,but just to sit in one...
Admittedly I would rather prefer the Murcie over the Gallardo, but hey...
Oh by the way, chose your words please!
VK, agree with you - but I remember someone here who actually bought a TTS!
Felix,
I heavily doubt that the 430 is any stiffer than its predecessor - and this means it won't beat its rivals, even less without the sidebags!
Anyways, Porsche divided the side protection system into side and separate head-curtain airbags on the 997. I can only speculate that racing buckets will provide enough safety to skip the first, while your head is still protected with the second ones if not being in a racing situation and dress!
Anyways, let's pray that none of us will ever need those items!
Does anybody do any research before posting? Look around, at Ferraris website and read some of the stories about the F430. The Chassis is MUCH stiffer then the 360s was. Almost 1/2 of it is new....
Re: no side/window airbags in f430--do you care?
Quote:
Mako88 said:Quote:
BluCamSS said:
Lambo TROLL, before you come in here stating about Audi's "safety cage" look around at other boards, the Gallardos are not fairing well in accidents at all. Not that it matters, theres a backlog on G's, and nobody seems to want them....
LOL again we get the opinion of a clown who doesn't own, and will never own, either a Ferrari or a Lambo.
But hey, I'll play. Go ahead and post the links as you stated to "other boards" that feature Gallardos not fairing well in accidents. I'd like to learn more about it as safety is one of the issues that I evaluate whenever I purchase a new sportscar. The Gallardo offers side/head impact airbags, and that's a major plus. No debating it. Everyone from Volvo on down to your average low-brow Camaro owner agrees.
But I would really like to see more data regarding Gallardo crash performance. Awaiting the links...
MAKO
Your a worthless troll, I did a search, like 99% of your posts are meanigless garbage, bitching and complaining. Your probably a 15 year old child. Yeah so one of my cars is a Camaro? I like muscle cars. And it will beat a Gallardo in the 1/4 mile easily. I also have 2 other cars and a house. And I am only 28. So grow up, stop trolling and go to bed, it's past your bedtime child....
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