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    Sep 30, 2004 11:52:05 AM

    Porsche Maniac
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    First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    Hi all

    Last weekend there was a trackday at the Portuguese Estoril Circuit. The first CGT in Portugal was there for a few laps...

    Guess what? Rumors point that it went into a spin and somehow broken the transmission (not confirmed rumors though).

    Here's a link to a video: Track Day video

    Sep 30, 2004 5:34:08 PM

    noegros
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    Reply to: Porsche Maniac

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    It doesn't show a lot the CGT (i think 2 times only)...

    Sep 30, 2004 7:58:58 PM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    Reply to: noegros

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    That S2000 does a perfect drift around the corner.

    What is that red and white car with the big wing? It sounds like it has a sequential gearbox and sounds similar to an
    F50 GT. Lovely sound!

    Oct 1, 2004 10:18:59 AM

    Porsche Maniac
    Junior
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    Reply to: MAVERICK

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    They're small kitcars with a bike engine and sequential gearbox. They're used in trophy races and i think anybody can rent them and go for a ride.

    Oct 3, 2004 12:53:32 PM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    Reply to: Porsche Maniac

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    Thanks, Pedro.

    Oct 3, 2004 7:22:10 PM

    Ferdie
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    Ferdie
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    Reply to: Porsche Maniac

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    Quote:
    Porsche Maniac said:
    They're small kitcars with a bike engine and sequential gearbox. They're used in trophy races and i think anybody can rent them and go for a ride.



    Seriously? How much is it?

    There wasn't any racing going on when I visited Estoril two years ago...
    The rest of Portugal compensated for that!

    Oct 3, 2004 8:38:31 PM

    Porsche Maniac
    Junior
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    Loc: Portugal
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    Honestly i don't know how much they ask to rent those kit cars.
    But as any other trophy, you pay around 20k Euro (i guess) and you can make an entire season.
    I just found a bit more info: they've got a Yamaha bike engine with a six speed sequential gearbox, tuned to 100 or 160 BHP. They acelerate from 0 to 100 (Km/h) in 4 sec or less.


    BTW, about the CGT ruining the transmission... it's not a rumour anymore. Somehow the transmission broke.
    Talk about reliability...

    Cheers

    Oct 4, 2004 7:03:01 PM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    Reply to: Porsche Maniac

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    Quote:
    Porsche Maniac said:
    BTW, about the CGT ruining the transmission... it's not a rumour anymore. Somehow the transmission broke.
    Talk about reliability...




    I do not seem to be able to find anything on the internet that addresses the technical reason of WHY instructors tell people to remember the phrase, "when you spin, both feet in."

    I found a tiny but unsatisfactory sentence that implies if you spin 180 degrees and find yourself moving backwards on the track while still engaged in a forward gear, make sure you disengage the clutch immediately to prevent damage.

    Does anyone know what happens to the transmission/gearbox if you don't disengage the clutch while you are in a forward gear and moving backwards? What exactly breaks in the transmission? Does the engine or differential get damaged as well? How?

    Oct 5, 2004 12:37:43 AM

    W8MM
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    Reply to: MAVERICK

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    Quote:
    MAVERICK said:
    I do not seem to be able to find anything on the internet that addresses the technical reason of WHY instructors tell people to remember the phrase, "when you spin, both feet in."



    I don't think it has much to do with damage to the drive train.

    My understanding of the admonition is that it removes unknown influences from the drive train during "limit maneuvers". By disengeging the engine from the driven wheels, the possibility for the engine to compete with the brakes is removed.

    If the engine were to compete with the brakes during a spin, unpredictable yaw torques might make matters worse for the driver and accentuate the spin, or cause a weird, non-expected excursion path off the track -- maybe into a barrier.

    If one disconnects the engine from the spin equation, more expected results can be anticipated.

    Oct 5, 2004 2:13:30 AM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    Reply to: MAVERICK

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    Mike,

    Thank you for the good explanation. I understand.
    Next, would you be able to shed some light on my second question? The answer might explain why the CGT's transmission broke:

    "Does anyone know what happens to the transmission/gearbox if you don't disengage the clutch while you are in a forward gear and moving backwards? What exactly breaks in the transmission? Does the engine or differential get damaged as well? How?"

    Thanks.

    Oct 5, 2004 12:28:08 PM

    W8MM
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    W8MM
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    Reply to: MAVERICK

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    Quote:
    MAVERICK said:
    "Does anyone know what happens to the transmission/gearbox if you don't disengage the clutch while you are in a forward gear and moving backwards? What exactly breaks in the transmission? Does the engine or differential get damaged as well? How?"

    Thanks.



    May I offer an unfounded speculation --> Maybe the unspecified transmission "failure" caused the spin, and not the other way around.

    If the driven wheels do something other than what the driver expected in a heated moment at the limit of traction, it's quite possible to lose control of the situation. Perhaps something as simple as the shift linkage getting crossed up prevented the correct gear from being selected. Other thoughts go to an internal mechanism failure.

    More accurate and specific information would be the first thing to seek out in this case.

    I, in my wildest dreams, can't imagine a spin causing damage to the transmission.

    I can easily imagine a transmission-related control problem causing a spin.

    Cheers,

    Oct 5, 2004 11:59:14 PM

    MAVERICK Offline
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    Reply to: W8MM

    Re: First portuguese CGT in a trackday! (Video+pic)

    Quote:
    W8MM said:

    May I offer an unfounded speculation --> Maybe the unspecified transmission "failure" caused the spin, and not the other way around.




    A reverse speculation. The thought never crossed my mind.
     
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