Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - X74 in the USA - Page1

Nov 16, 2002 6:31:09 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002

Suspension test in sport auto

The latest issue of the German sport auto magazine (issue 12/2002) includes a test of the alternative suspension setups offered by Porsche for the 996.

In summary, the -30mm option is confirmed to be the setup offering maximum handling quality and driving pleasure while the -10mm option is described as a strong compromise, offering nearly the comfort of the standard setup in combination with significantly enhanced handling qualities.

Track times (small circuit, Hockenheim, Michelin tires, 18") are stated as follows:

Standard setup 1,16.9
-10mm 1,16.2
-30mm 1,15.7

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Nov 16, 2002 9:57:53 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Suspension test in sport auto

Not bad, really not bad. Over a second faster with the 30 mm suspension...superb result.

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Nov 16, 2002 10:17:20 PM

Theo: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 56, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2002; Reply to: RC

Details

Maybe this little graphic helps.

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Nov 17, 2002 1:34:46 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: Theo

Thanks

Thank you MKSGR and Theo.
What do they say about the 30 mm suspension set up in terms of comfort.
Great report,
Francois.

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Nov 17, 2002 2:28:48 PM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

THanks, Good to know...

some tested results. I always wondered how big of difference these suspension settings would make I mean the offereings from Porsche.

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Nov 18, 2002 8:31:46 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Futch

The 30mm option...

... is described as significantly more uncomfortable than the -10mm option. In summary, sport auto states that while the -30mm option is the most fun, the -10mm option may be a good compromise given the improved performance vs. standard setup in combination with a reasonable level of comfort

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Nov 18, 2002 8:51:09 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

OK, thanks for the info...

I must admit, this is going to sound pathetic.
But one of the reason why I am very curious about the 30mm set up is because I think the car looks much better!!!

I know, this sounds sad but I really think so.
I've had the occasion to drive behind a GT2 and a Turbo, they have the same width, and still, the GT2 looks a lot more "planted" on the ground ready to eat the tarmac

Plus handling is greatly improved.
Now, if it really is that uncomfortable, I might think again

My C4C has 030 suspension, and I do not find it uncomfortable at all, but again, according to Porsche, it shouldn't be

A test drive would be the ideal but it is difficult to find 996 with the 30mm set up for test drives

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback,
Francois.

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Nov 20, 2002 3:37:44 AM

testdrv321: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 86, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

X74 in the US

Mine is getting installed as we speak although I am also adding the GT3 sway bars to the package. I'd offer you a test drive, but you are a bit far. If you ever end up in NY, email me.

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Nov 20, 2002 8:08:35 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: testdrv321

Re: X74 in the US

OK,
Thanks man!
Let me just get a cab to the airport then

Francois.

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Nov 20, 2002 9:53:28 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: only for carrera coupé

as far as i am informed, the X74 is not available for the targa or the convertible 996.

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Nov 21, 2002 4:34:30 PM

RPWinter: Newbie; Loc: Frankfurt / Main; Posts: 2, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Suspension test in sport auto

I have driven the -30mm setup on the 996 which I had as a demonstrator car over the weekend

. It was a dream. I know the regular setup but this -30mm is far superior. The car is much more responsive on fast country lanes without beeing harsh around town or on the motorway. The only problem is the reduced ride hight when parking in underground parking garages or carwashes when the front spoiler catches easily. This is a cheap item to replace though should it crack. I would recomend everyone to go for the -30mm setup if they want extra grip around corners and more stability on fast motorway stretches. Also as a comparison the setup is not as harsh as that of the GT3 which rides even more harder.

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Nov 21, 2002 4:43:56 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: RPWinter

Thanks

Good to know,
Well that's one option I'm going to order if the next car is a Porsche

I'll just have to be careful in those parkings then.
Francois.

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Nov 21, 2002 5:55:03 PM

testdrv321: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 86, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

X74 in the USA

I just got my car back from the dealer. The X74 is awesome. I had the dealer install in and GT3 sway bars with TRG drop links in my 03 C2. The car handles like its on rails. It accelerates and stops better due to the improved weight transfer and the ride is suprisingly good, definitely no worse than the US 030 which I had previously. The car also looks much better sitting 40mm lower. Its about the same height my 99 was with H&R springs so I do have to be careful on driveways and the car wash is out of the question, but it is worth it in my opinion. There is only one downside... I won't get it onto the track till the spring :-(

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Nov 21, 2002 7:55:50 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: testdrv321

Re: X74 in the USA

In reply to:
It accelerates and stops better due to the improved weight transfer and the ride is suprisingly good, definitely no worse than the US 030 which I had previously. The car also looks much better sitting 40mm lower.

Hmm, what was the english expression for that...wishful thinking I guess.

There is no improvement in acceleration and stopping, I have that info first hand.

And X74 makes the car around 30 mm lower (vs. standard height, not vs. M030 height) with a possible variation of +/- 10 mm.

I'm glad to hear that you like the X74 setup but the GT3 swaybars and drop links don't make much sense to me.
I've been assured that the factory setup is perfect for track racing and playing around with it just makes things worse, especially because the suspension is not height adjustable.

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Nov 24, 2002 3:39:28 AM

testdrv321: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 86, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: X74 in the USA

Remeber that the US cars are all the same height, which is 10mm higher than ROW standard. If the X74 is 30mm lower than ROW standard, that is 30+10+40 mm lower than US height.

The car with the excessive US ride height did a tremendous amount of lift and bow when accelerating and braking. This is all wasted motion and effort. When you accelerate or brake hard, the moment of the car is transfered more quickly to the tires resulting in a better ability to brake and accelerate. How much is another question. I must admit that it may be more felt that anything truly gained. Maybe under testing it would prove to stop 1 foot faster and 1/100 faster accel to 60. Without testing we will never know. Drive a US spec car with the stock suspension and you will feel what I did. It spends too much time moving the body around and it has to effect the accel/deccel.

I went with the GT3 bars because I wanted some adjustability to set up the under/over steer of the car. I am sure the car would handle excellent with the stock X74/sport bars, but I use the car for both track and auto-x and wanted some flexibility to adjust it. I considered coilovers, almost got the cup car parts, but figured that would simply be too much. Now I have a excellent suspension with a little adjustability to dial it the way I want it. This is the same reason that there are hundreds of people running the ROW030 with GT3 bars. A touch of adjustability without going overboard.

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Nov 25, 2002 5:37:04 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: X74 in the USA

In Reply to:
There is no improvement in acceleration and stopping, I have that info first hand. And X74 makes the car around 30 mm lower (vs. standard height, not vs. M030 height) with a possible variation of +/- 10 mm.

Christian, how could one get the X74/ X73 adjusted to +/- 10mm?
Does that mean that one could have a 996TT seating 10mm or 30mm lower than the standard Turbo? (since X73 makes the Turbo 20mm lower than stock Turbo)
I thought you said the setup was not height adjustable?

Fanch.

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Nov 25, 2002 11:24:39 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: X74 in the USA

In reply to:
Christian, how could one get the X74/ X73 adjusted to +/- 10mm?
Does that mean that one could have a 996TT seating 10mm or 30mm lower than the standard Turbo? (since X73 makes the Turbo 20mm lower than stock Turbo)
I thought you said the setup was not height adjustable?

Oh boy, my English needs improvement.

I meant that there is a production variation (tolerance might be the right word for it) of around +/- 10 mm. So not all cars have the same height, even if they are of the same type (ROW, US, etc.).

Or to give you an example: let's assume the ride height of a 996 is (theoretical) 1000 mm. One car out of the factory has a ride height of 990, one has a ride height of 1010 and another one can have a ride height of 995 or 1005 mm. Understood?

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Nov 26, 2002 12:21:03 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: RC

Yes understood!

I think that's a huge error margin though.
+/- 10mm on a 30 mm setup that means an error margin of 33%!!!!!!!

I hope you're wrong Christian.
Or in others words, that means that if X and Y buy a 996 with X74 suspension, they could end up with a ride height difference of 20mm!!!
Not very impressive.
Fanch.

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Nov 26, 2002 2:05:54 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Yes understood!

Nothing wrong with that, Francois. And this is no huge error margin. Did you ever watch a suspension alignment? Maybe you also learned that the car usually "sets" after a while and it gets even lower.

The technical specs allow 10 mm error margin with the factory setups and there is nothing we can do about it.
Yes, it can happen that a US car has the same height as a ROW car but usually this doesn't happen because usually different shocks/springs are installed. The tolerance margin is a theoretical value, this is what the technical specs allow. It doesn't mean that it has to be this way.

I know this sounds weird and the 10 mm seem to be a lot but this is how it is.

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Nov 26, 2002 4:22:13 AM

testdrv321: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 86, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Yes understood!

Keep in mind that we are discussing a loaded spring. The addition (or lack) of weight will effect the ride height. No sunroof, GT3 seats, etc. result in a car that may weigh as much as 5-8% less. This may translate to a higher ride height. The same is true for the opposite. Additionally, manufcaturing procedures and tolerances will result ina certain amount of variance. 10mm is alot, but it may not be out of the question.

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Nov 26, 2002 8:29:50 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: RC

OK, then

Christian has spoken the truth,
So be it!!!

I still think it's a lot, but, hey, I'm an engineer,
I don't allow a 30% mistake margin in my calculus

Fanch.

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Nov 26, 2002 11:24:13 PM

testdrv321: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 86, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: OK, then

I'm also an engineer and I agree 30% is excessive, the problem is not that their design and manufacturing is poor, we are simply looking at it the wrong way. The porsche spec vehicle height (measured from wheelwell to ground for example) is more like 700mm. 10mm on 700 is only 1.5%, a much more acceptible variation.

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Nov 27, 2002 8:28:15 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: testdrv321

Re: OK, then

10 mm on 70 mm. that's 15% (roughly)
but it is ok I suppose.
It depends what you measure.
Francois.

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Nov 27, 2002 2:50:10 PM

testdrv321: Junior; Loc: Long Island, NY; Posts: 86, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: OK, then

700 not 70. The height to the lip of the wheel well.

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Suspension test in sport auto

Re: Suspension test in sport auto

Details

Thanks

THanks, Good to know...

The 30mm option...

OK, thanks for the info...

X74 in the US

Re: X74 in the US

Re: only for carrera coupé

Re: Suspension test in sport auto

Thanks

X74 in the USA

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Re: X74 in the USA

Yes understood!

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OK, then

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