Quote:
GaryD (UK) said:
Oh boy, there's some gross over-simplifications going on here.
1. The 'S' has not always been about power... look back into a number of 911 generations and you can see that. There was even a 993 C2S which was a C4S without AWD
2. Obsessing over power-to-weight ratio does not buy you a better (which to most of you = faster in a straight line) car. Aston Martin know this, which is why the DB9 is so damn good. It's about balance, power distribution and overall ability to get from A to B as quickly as possible.
3. I can tell the difference between a C4S and a Turbo from any angle... can't anyone else here do that? Ok, the turbo has a big plastic fin on the back, a couple of holes in the sides and a protruding plastic ice-scraper at the bottom of the front bumper (sorry turbo owners, only joking!) Again, I prefer the look of my C4S without these go-faster add-ons, but it's a personal thing.
4. AWD is not a performance benefit... erm, perhaps you should ask why most world rally cars have it then? Simple answer.. cos it allows you to go faster around bends. When your back wheels lose traction in a C2S you can only rely on your natural driving ability or prayer to keep you alive... personally I would rather have the 40% of power in the front wheels pulling me out of the s**t!
5. Turbo brakes are superfluous... do you track your car? I am not talking from experience here, but I assume that these just have to be better... whether the car has a turbo or not it still needs to get from scary to zero in not a lot of time, and I would rather have these stoppers on my side than the standard brakes. The closest I have come is stampting on the brakes when a dog ran out in front of me, and I nearly threw up as a result of the negative g. I'm sorry, but I think these brakes alone are worth the money.
6. Wider body=wider track=slightly more balance. No need?
7. So if I add a sunroof and sat nav and heated seats and other bits and pieces to a C2 that add up to 200lb does that make the C2 unworthy? Hey, I weigh 250lb, I guess I am a severe penalty to my car over someone half my weight.
8. C4S tyres are too big? Really? I am not sure Porsche would give anything away for free, so I am a bit surprised at this one. Surprised, since I can still spin the wheels and slide the car with these too-wide tyres on. Or is this just sour grapes from C2 owners that are losing grip around the bends...
As you can tell I like my C4S. I've sat and read some absolute twoddle in this thread, mainly from people obsessed about how fast their car could go on a track but whou could never get the extra 0.1s out of their C2 if they tried. Or, snobbish turbo owners who I guess are sick that a cheaper car could be mistaken for theirs.
Come on... all of these cars are great. There's a place for every C2/C4/C4S/GT2/GT2R/GT3/GT3RS/Turbo/Whatever in the product range (well, apart from targas... only joking ;-) )... because everyone's different. I don't criticise a Boxster because it's cheaper, or a 993 because it's slower or a GT3 for having a pushchair handle on the back.
Whatever happened to the great Porsche ownership cameraderie that I used to know? I'll get my coat...
You seem to have over-simplyfied yourself a bit:
1. hence the term used was "generally"
2. power-to-weight is one thing, the C4S mayor disadvantage was overall weight... a different concept that affects handling significantly.
3. C4S looks better than the 996TT? thats personal so no argueing there, but the problem some people have is that the C4S looks (though very nice) are only skip deep turbo wannabe looks.
4. AWD, lets not over simplify, rally race cars have nothing in common with the 996, no do their AWD systems, nor do their use and terrain. Bottom line is, a C4 (not C4S) is exactly the same as a C2 but with AWD, and the C2 is ultimately faster, periiod. The AWD has other advantages that are a good trade off for that handling edge of the RWD. Like easier to extract that perfromance in everyday street, greater safety at the limit, greater perfromance on wet, etc. I drive a 996C4 for a reason, for my particular use of the car, the C4 is faster. But Ultimately the RWD is faster, guess why the GT3, GT2, CGT are not AWD? so o AWD is NOT a performance upgrade.
5. Turbo brakes on a C2 are superfluous, but if you add 200lbs on a C2 then you will need them more, hence one of the reasons the C4S having turbo brakes. But the C2's stock brakes are not one of its weak points and if you add the fact tha the turbo breaks mean more unsprung weight adversely affecting handling, you are not going to notice a performance benefit on the C2. The 200lbs heavier C$S is a different story is not for increasing perfromance its because it needs them
6. GT3/GT3RS narrow body = best handling 996 models. Again more track is not always better, there is a balance and limit for each car, it depends on the whole pakage and car's specs, the 996C2 doesn't need wide body nor does the GT3 need the CGT's track.
7. no, just not a performance oriented C2 which is what we are talking about here. But nothing wrong with adding 200lbs of confort options if you want, its your respectable choice.
8. no comment