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    Sep 18, 2004 12:18:15 PM

    stone
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    997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    According to porsche Uk where I test drove the 997S ( fantastic !!!) the C4S will be launched in Sept 05 and will be with a 3.8 engine - it will also be 15mm wider with possibly 305 instead of 295 rear tyres. the debate is that this will be a heavier car and as such a fraction slower so will there be a power increase ? :

    Sep 18, 2004 12:48:43 PM

    RCA
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    Reply to: stone

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Quote:
    stone said:
    According to porsche Uk where I test drove the 997S ( fantastic !!!) the C4S will be launched in Sept 05 and will be with a 3.8 engine - it will also be 15mm wider with possibly 305 instead of 295 rear tyres. the debate is that this will be a heavier car and as such a fraction slower so will there be a power increase ? :



    As far as I know, the 997 C4S gets the same engine as the 997 Carrera S. But at the same time, Porsche might introduce a 3.8 engine powerkit which raises power to max. 380 HP. The C4S was always the heavier car, I don't know why people always expect something different. The C4S is a poser car, I'm sorry to say that. Performance mongers go for a 997 CS, track addicts go for the 997 GT3 and power mongers go for the "real" thing, the 997 Turbo. The C4S just satisfies the needs of people who want to have a nice and aggressive/wide looking Porsche but don't want the Turbo engine due to financial reasons or, as unbelievable this might sound, because the turbo engine is too powerful for them and they don't want it or don't see any reason to go for it. I don't want to offend anybody but I never understood why somebody would buy a C4S and not the Turbo.

    But of course the C4S is a beautiful car, no doubt about it.

    Sep 18, 2004 12:56:45 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: stone

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Interesting but, 305 for the rear on a 355HP 911???? were is this trend leading to

    Sep 18, 2004 3:17:06 PM

    Joost
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    Interesting but, 305 for the rear on a 355HP 911???? were is this trend leading to


    500...

    Sep 18, 2004 3:48:30 PM

    shin
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    Reply to: Joost

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    15mm?? Are you sure it's not 150 mm?

    Sep 19, 2004 12:55:34 AM

    dhayek Offline
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    Reply to: shin

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    rc ,do you think the c4s will have a different body than c2s?or is it just a 2wd ,4wd issue?because everybody is saying c4 and c4s is due 2005 ,a year before 997tt,will they unveil the 997tt look to put it first on c4s?

    Sep 19, 2004 3:45:56 AM

    Bitko
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    We don't expect a tiger to purr like a pussy cat, and for the same reason could never like a C4S; and for the same reason never liked the idea of guys installing GT3 body kit; in conclusion a fake is just FAKE.

    Sep 19, 2004 3:59:43 AM

    998R
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Since the Turbo looks like it will have those huge flared out side air intakes, I wonder if the C4S with its "Turbo body" will just look like a C2S that's 15mm wider. The 996C4S did not have the side air intakes of the 996 Turbo.

    Sep 21, 2004 12:07:03 AM

    skate
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    rc, i have been a quiet reader of your board for a while and generally agree with most of your comments. after reading your somewhat simplistic comparison of c4s owners vs. c2 owners i must respond. the actual difference between the c2 and c4s is much more complicated than just rear body width. for example, people like myself enjoy the additional comfort and safety of all wheel drive. we are not all suedo race car drivers like you. in addition, dollar for dollar the c4s is of greater value than the c2, especially if you value full leather interior, turbo brakes, sports seats, and the bose high-end audio. for the average driver like myself, the difference in power between the c4s and the turbo is so unuseable that attempting to justify the price difference is a total waste of time. not all c4s owners are posers, some of us actually made informed decisions prior to buying our cars. you always have alot to say about people spreading mis-information about porsche, you should listen to your own advice.

    Sep 21, 2004 1:33:04 AM

    Thom
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    My ex-girlfriend lives with a guy who owns and reveres his C4S. I'm tempted to send her your opinion, but I won't.

    Sep 21, 2004 2:13:08 AM

    JP66 Offline
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    Reply to: skate

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Quote:
    skate said:
    rc, i have been a quiet reader of your board for a while and generally agree with most of your comments. after reading your somewhat simplistic comparison of c4s owners vs. c2 owners i must respond. the actual difference between the c2 and c4s is much more complicated than just rear body width. for example, people like myself enjoy the additional comfort and safety of all wheel drive. we are not all suedo race car drivers like you. in addition, dollar for dollar the c4s is of greater value than the c2, especially if you value full leather interior, turbo brakes, sports seats, and the bose high-end audio. for the average driver like myself, the difference in power between the c4s and the turbo is so unuseable that attempting to justify the price difference is a total waste of time. not all c4s owners are posers, some of us actually made informed decisions prior to buying our cars. you always have alot to say about people spreading mis-information about porsche, you should listen to your own advice.



    Sep 21, 2004 10:59:44 AM

    BMCG
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    Reply to: JP66

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Rather than argue the corner....i'll simply observe that diversity of opinion is healthy.

    BTW - my C4S is sublime as it takes turn 2 at TWS on MPSC's...(apologies if that could be construed as arguing)

    Sep 21, 2004 1:36:31 PM

    GaryD (UK)
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    Reply to: Thom

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Hey RC, I might be biased (since I own a C4S), but aren't you forgetting that some people might want a few other things in a 911...

    1. The running gear (suspension, brakes) and balance of the Turbo, but without the turbo engine? OK, these might be the same people who can't afford a new turbo (me included), either to buy or for the insurance, but according the Walter Rohl, the C4S was the best balanced (and fastest) normally aspirated 996 he ever drove. To call this a posers car is a little bit biased I think.

    2. Four wheel drive

    3. The 'legacy' look - I love the red stripe, it reminds me of the 964/993 look that I coveted as a kid. It was nice to grow up and own the modern version.

    Now that you have your 997CS I think you have become a little hard towards the 996 C4S... you didn't talk like that before you managed to buy your 997. From what I remember of this site, you even used to think the 996C4S was a great car a few years back. Maybe your new car has gone to your head?

    Sep 21, 2004 3:47:17 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: GaryD (UK)

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Quote:
    GaryD (UK) said:
    Hey RC, I might be biased (since I own a C4S), but aren't you forgetting that some people might want a few other things in a 911...

    1. ...but according the Walter Rohl, the C4S was the best balanced (and fastest) normally aspirated 996 he ever drove.



    Gary - I think you are forgetting about the GT3 (I know Walter isn't )

    Sep 21, 2004 5:18:19 PM

    BMCG
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Believe GaryD is referring to the Car(UK) article in which they interviewed Walter post the launch of the GT3 mk2.

    Walter made a remark regarding the C4S being the "Best balanced" 911.

    Sep 21, 2004 5:48:17 PM

    Frissen
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    RC, I have to completely disagree with you statement on the C4S as a posers car. I believe the C4 and C4S serve a purpose in the 911 lineup. While not as fast as their RWD counterparts the C4S brings a sense of safety and noble driving while still keeping all 911 values.

    I personally disagree with you, the C4S drives fantastic if tuned correctly.

    Sep 21, 2004 6:28:56 PM

    GaryD (UK)
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    Reply to: Frissen

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Thanks Bill... yes I was referring to that article, but I could also have quoted the one in Christophorous at the launch of the 996C4S where he blasted it around some public twisties in Italy (I think), and raved about the car.

    That was before the launch of the GT3 MK2, but interestingly he did say something like it being the best overall 911 he had driven (and I don't think he was excluding the GT3 or the Turbo in that one...)

    I personally don't like the "mine's better than yours" kind of thing, as we've all got great cars, and I think we should do all we can to stop any snobbery on here.

    Sep 21, 2004 7:13:04 PM

    GG
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    Reply to: GaryD (UK)

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    I think we should do all we can to stop any snobbery on here.



    Good luck! losing battle!

    Sep 21, 2004 7:21:51 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: GaryD (UK)

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Quote:
    GaryD (UK) said:
    I personally don't like the "mine's better than yours" kind of thing, as we've all got great cars, and I think we should do all we can to stop any snobbery on here.



    Way to go!

    Sep 21, 2004 8:32:30 PM

    SoCalHoosier
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Very clever... I thought the same thing is happening.

    Nick has some pretty wild notions of what's what out there but RC coming across with his C4S comment strikes me as absurd.

    If what RC said were true then ANY 911 owner would be a "poseur" when placed against a car that can out-perform it at half the price (Corvette C6).
    Me personally... I don't like Chevys and I think the interior quality of such cars is absolutely horrendous. Sad thing is that for half the price it will blow away the 997S on the autobahn and keep pace with it on the tracks. I'm sure all the new Z06 owners will be laughing and calling all the Porsche owners "poseurs" if performance/price was the only gauge for us to measure by.

    Sep 21, 2004 8:46:37 PM

    J.Seven
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Maybe the best looking Porsche ever

    Sep 21, 2004 8:54:52 PM

    skate
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    rc appears to have become very quiet on this issue. i guess it does take time to get your foot out of your mouth.

    Sep 22, 2004 12:33:19 AM

    deedee
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    Reply to: skate

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    996 C4S is a better looking car..I like white with red interior! But if I could afford a turbo, I'll buy turbo...It's simple to me but it's very personal

    Sep 22, 2004 12:44:08 AM

    Grant
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    Reply to: skate

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Quote:
    skate said:
    rc appears to have become very quiet on this issue. i guess it does take time to get your foot out of your mouth.



    I think he's just being polite and doesn't want to offend any C4S owners further. I don't think all C4S owners are poseurs, but I also find the C4S to be the least interesting offering in the lineup. But, that's why they make so many different versions of the 911 - one for everyone's taste...

    Sep 22, 2004 9:11:13 AM

    GaryD (UK)
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    well said

    Sep 22, 2004 9:14:26 AM

    dhayek Offline
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    i personally think that the c4s was a mistake from porsche ,it was just a way to sell more cars,it is not fair for turbo owners to give a turbo look to a standard carrera, it is true that in the price difference between a turbo and a c4s there is also power ,but still the turbo is much more expensive than a c4s .they even gave the c4s the same brakes than a turbo ,even tough its slower than a carrera.but anyway my info says that 997 c2, c2s, c4, c4s will share the same body ,that is already wide ,and will be available next year ,one year before the turbo(normally c4s is shown with or after the turbo ,never before),so for me the matter is solved..

    Sep 22, 2004 2:23:52 PM

    stone
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    sorry to disagree with you dhayek but according to porsche in the UK the 4wd versions WILL have a wider body - and I agree with J seven - the C4s is not only a fab looking car, but for those of us that live in wet rain soaked areas with the odd bout of snow it is also the safest - guess we will have to wait untill september to see !

    Sep 22, 2004 3:33:14 PM

    dhayek Offline
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    Reply to: stone

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Quote:
    stone said:
    sorry to disagree with you dhayek but according to porsche in the UK the 4wd versions WILL have a wider body - and I agree with J seven - the C4s is not only a fab looking car, but for those of us that live in wet rain soaked areas with the odd bout of snow it is also the safest - guess we will have to wait untill september to see !


    i am not saying at all that c4s is a fab looking car ,in fact its a gorgeous car ,i love its look,and i am sure many people need 4wd,i agree with that.all i am saying is that its unfair for turbo owners who paid a lot more money to have the same body look on a much cheaper model , do you think it make sense to have a turbo look on a c4s ,if so,why not on the c2s?or c2? dont you think c2,c2s,c4,c4s should have the same body ,and the turbo to be different?
    concerning my source for the body issue ,i got it by porsche middle east .but even if you were right and the body is wider it wont be a turbo look anymore ,it will be something in between c2s and turbo .on 993, turbo and c4s were released together ,on 996 ,the c4s was released 1 year later, and there is no way that porsche to reveal the turbo look a year before the real turbo is launched on 997

    Sep 22, 2004 4:03:11 PM

    stone
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    As you say and I do agree, with your comment, they will not have a complete turbo body, for all the reasons you mention.

    But it is a fact that IF you want the speed and power you by the turbo IF you want the looks and 4WD (the fake as proposed) you get the slow but fantastic looking C4s.

    It is the same with the new M5 you can get 90% of the look of an M5 with the new sport package brought out this month, but you can get it on a 525i !!! On the BMW site M5 prospective purchasesrs are going mad...so yes I agree they should be different but as I can't afford the turbo, I'm happy to get as close as I can to what is the best looking car - bar none

    If you guys are correct, just to add 15mm seems a little bit pointless unless it is for a reason

    happy days

    Sep 22, 2004 7:29:52 PM

    brunner
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    Reply to: dhayek

    Re: 997 C4S - WIDER by 15mm

    Quote:
    dhayek said:
    all i am saying is that its unfair for turbo owners who paid a lot more money to have the same body look on a much cheaper model


    'Turbo look' Carreras were made ever since the Turbo was introduced, so what's new?
     
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