Crown

RC:

the-missile:

RC:

How do you "fairly" allocate cars? Difficult. I suggested once a system based on how many Porsche a customer bought in a period of ten years but then, is this fair? Some younger drivers may want one but they haven't really bought that many Porsche cars in the past. Exclusivity? Why? If Porsche can sell every single GT3 RS they can produce, what is wrong with that? I get the 911 R (even if I think that the current GT3 Touring is the better car ) but limited production models only create bad blood.

You know that R was the proto of GT3.2... they limited it because they thought the demand would be minimal for such a car hence they put a random number and advertised it. the craziness started with greedy idiots whcih thought NA/Manual was gone after the R which was wrong. you now the story after that...

they are making every GT3 they can sell and same goes for the RS... on the way for 5000 units again, it is big amount already but you still need to make sure that no car collect dusts in showroom, so demand minus 1 in each place.

--

 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

 

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

Not quite there yet...there are still people who weren't able to get one and apparently their dealers tell them now there won't be any more cars. Just imagine what will happen if these customers see some new GT3 RS popping up in spring 2019...  

The GT3 and GT3 RS are amazing cars and I wish everyone who wants one gets one for MSRP or less but so far, it seems that some people won't get one, which is sad.

Production of the 991.1 GT3 RS was over what the real market wanted / could absorb . Fault to all the speculators . Look today at how many delivery mile  991.1 you see for sale on  the different autoscout  and that do not moove .

Hope Porsche is not doing the same mistake again . So yes, they need to monitor production, but most important they need to find a way to get rid of the speculators .  In Switzerland , less then one month after the first delivery of the 991.2 you could see them posing up on autoscout . Last time I checked , a few weeks back, there were about 10 for sale . 

And real drivers were denied allocations . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

And real drivers were denied allocations . 

Problem is that PAG don't know what buyer will do with car until it is too late.
Hopefully the guys selling their cars for profit will likely be banned from buying next time.

Worst case though is dealers flipping cars.

PAG might not know, but the dealers do ! 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

RC:

alexalex88:

Imho limit the production of certain models makes perfect sense in order to keep the halo of exclusivity around the brand.

The issue is the (unfair) allocation system. Despite the hard core buyers (let's say 100-200-300? persons worldwide -people like Whoopsy who race their cars, have an extensive background buying expensive Porsches and are excellent ambassadors of the brand) there is a wide pool of customers that share almost the same qualifications; rank priorities here instead of a random draw is what makes people get pissed off.

How do you "fairly" allocate cars? Difficult. I suggested once a system based on how many Porsche a customer bought in a period of ten years but then, is this fair? Some younger drivers may want one but they haven't really bought that many Porsche cars in the past. Exclusivity? Why? If Porsche can sell every single GT3 RS they can produce, what is wrong with that? I get the 911 R (even if I think that the current GT3 Touring is the better car ) but limited production models only create bad blood.

It's very easy to fairly allocate the cars, but P has to do the things right.

1. Define the 100-200-300 customers worldwide that tick all the boxes (race their Cups, do their courses, being good ambassadors of the brand and have a good/significant collection of Porsches). This group is gonna be able to purchase all the cars under certain conditions (f.e. no flipping), period.

2. Delete the stupid and unfair US Vip Programm.

3. The rest of the customers aren't THAT different one of each other, so the best solution is a random draw. To participate in this draw every single P enthusiast must submit a letter of intent through their dealers, stating that they're willing to buy X car. 

4. If you flip your car in the next 2 years (limited edition, easier to track them down), you won't buy again a P from the factory.

5. Porsche can adjust production numbers to the demand. 

The US VIP system is very fair.

All they need to do is produce enough GT3 to meet demand and build the models people want. The problem is this would kill sales of high spec TT TTS and such where Porsche makes the money.

SciFrog:

The US VIP system is very fair.

All they need to do is produce enough GT3 to meet demand and build the models people want. The problem is this would kill sales of high spec TT TTS and such where Porsche makes the money.

Is unfair regarding the rest of countries.

Porsche couldn’t move 918 at the time. It was a good perk.

alexalex88:

SciFrog:

The US VIP system is very fair.

All they need to do is produce enough GT3 to meet demand and build the models people want. The problem is this would kill sales of high spec TT TTS and such where Porsche makes the money.

Is unfair regarding the rest of countries.

Actually it's the rest of the countries' dealers being unfair to their customers.

In North America, those that bought a 918 at least can have guaranteed cars. Not elsewhere.

I have a few friends from the UK, who are 918 owners and also have many other Porsches that don't get the new 'specialty' stuff. Their dealers won't honour their status as the dealers' VIP, dealers have their own list of VIPs, like buddies and flippers to get inline first to get cars.

Same with a few other European countries. I have heard many stories coming from the 918 fraternity.

IMO the dealers participate and profit in the flipping of cars, that is why actual drivers get the short end of the stick, they are less profitable for tje dealers, and Porsche looking the other way is their way to compensate the dealers for their tight profits and requirements, like a bonus, so Porsche also benefits, so there is no real incentive to stop it. They could do it in an instant if they wanted, but the only say they dont like flipping publicly for image reasons, but dont really act on it.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Wish I could get one. Been on each list since the 996 GT3. Oh well. I would even promise to keep it for ten years. 

Dealers, almost always, are the problem in the allocations mess.

Leawood911:

Wish I could get one. Been on each list since the 996 GT3. Oh well. I would even promise to keep it for ten years. 

You deserve one Leawood, next time don't let the dealer know you actually want it to drive it and keep it, tell them you will sell it back to the dealer shortly and with few mi!es, then you may get one 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

Wish I could get one. Been on each list since the 996 GT3. Oh well. I would even promise to keep it for ten years. 

You deserve one Leawood, next time don't let the dealer know you actually want it to drive it and keep it, tell them you will sell it back to the dealer shortly and with few mi!es, then you may get one 

Hmm do I detect slight envy? 

Let me be blunt. All I hear is carping about let the real drivers who put a lot of miles on the car get the get the allocations. Let them get to "know" the car. What the fuck does that mean? Getting around a track two seconds faster?

I'm not a track jockey and could give a rats ass if I improve my time around a stupid track by a couple of seconds. It will not change my life and provide any meaning. Clearly no one on this site is a master driver and never will be. If you get your jollies off thinking you are, go ahead and believe in your own propaganda. I rather be good at several skills instead of spending all my time trying to improve on one skill which wouldn't improve my life or elevate me to being above average. 

Allocation are given by dealers because of many factors. If you have invincible determination and singular focus you can get an allocation. I watch guys who own a Porsche change their own oil, take service work to places that may be cheaper and then complain they can't get an allocation.This much I know. I enjoy cars and I get them when I want because my dealer likes and respects me.This relationship was nurtured over a number of years. I had the same relationship with Ferrari. When a new model was introduced I received a call and asked if I wanted one. I didn't go begging or groveling to Ferrari.

What an owner does with his car is his business and no one looking from the outside in has any right to tell him otherwise.

END OF RANT.

Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.

Personally I don’t have time to suck up to a dealer. The less I see them the better. They come pick up the car in my garage for service, I order a car via email, negotiate the price on the phone if email doesn’t do it, and they deliver it to my house. That’s the ideal scenario. I know more about options and the upcoming cars or the intrinsic qualities of the current ones than they sell anyway. Plus the cars in the showrooms are ugly specs that I would never buy. And since I couldn’t care less about special models because they only have 2 seats, makes my life a lot simpler. At the end of the day, they are just cars, I would much rather spend time with my family or helping people with my charity than entertain someone trying to sell me something.

nberry:

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

Wish I could get one. Been on each list since the 996 GT3. Oh well. I would even promise to keep it for ten years. 

You deserve one Leawood, next time don't let the dealer know you actually want it to drive it and keep it, tell them you will sell it back to the dealer shortly and with few mi!es, then you may get one 

Hmm do I detect slight envy? 

Let me be blunt. All I hear is carping about let the real drivers who put a lot of miles on the car get the get the allocations. Let them get to "know" the car. What the fuck does that mean? Getting around a track two seconds faster?

I'm not a track jockey and could give a rats ass if I improve my time around a stupid track by a couple of seconds. It will not change my life and provide any meaning. Clearly no one on this site is a master driver and never will be. If you get your jollies off thinking you are, go ahead and believe in your own propaganda. I rather be good at several skills instead of spending all my time trying to improve on one skill which wouldn't improve my life or elevate me to being above average. 

Allocation are given by dealers because of many factors. If you have invincible determination and singular focus you can get an allocation. I watch guys who own a Porsche change their own oil, take service work to places that may be cheaper and then complain they can't get an allocation.This much I know. I enjoy cars and I get them when I want because my dealer likes and respects me.This relationship was nurtured over a number of years. I had the same relationship with Ferrari. When a new model was introduced I received a call and asked if I wanted one. I didn't go begging or groveling to Ferrari.

What an owner does with his car is his business and no one looking from the outside in has any right to tell him otherwise.

END OF RANT.

 

If you will never be going to exceed 125+ mph, why buy a Porsche in the first place ?

I thought with the introduction of PDK, it was a lot easier to get up to the 3-digits even with one hand.

Are you sure you're driving the right car for the right purpose ?

I believe the Aventador was the one you should've gone with instead of a GT3 RS

Carlos from Spain:

IMO the dealers participate and profit in the flipping of cars, that is why actual drivers get the short end of the stick, they are less profitable for tje dealers, and Porsche looking the other way is their way to compensate the dealers for their tight profits and requirements, like a bonus, so Porsche also benefits, so there is no real incentive to stop it. They could do it in an instant if they wanted, but the only say they dont like flipping publicly for image reasons, but dont really act on it.

Correct .

Dave was denied an RS .1  Later he was told by one of the salesperson that they prefer to sell to older guys ( like over 60 ) that don't track their cars ...   Like that they are sure they get them back quickly, in pristine conditions with hardly any miles on them and probably also at a good price 

When I asked a good friend working a high level  for a high end watch company about flippers and crazy prices, he said that they actually like it .... it is good for the brand 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Carlos from Spain:

Leawood911:

Wish I could get one. Been on each list since the 996 GT3. Oh well. I would even promise to keep it for ten years. 

You deserve one Leawood, next time don't let the dealer know you actually want it to drive it and keep it, tell them you will sell it back to the dealer shortly and with few mi!es, then you may get one 

+ 1 again !

Leawood you definitely need to do something differently if you want one . Just hassle them , as every few weeks , go there  etc...... 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

nberry:

 

Let me be blunt. All I hear is carping about let the real drivers who put a lot of miles on the car get the get the allocations. Let them get to "know" the car. What the fuck does that mean? Getting around a track two seconds faster?

I'm not a track jockey and could give a rats ass if I improve my time around a stupid track by a couple of seconds. It will not change my life and provide any meaning. Clearly no one on this site is a master driver and never will be. If you get your jollies off thinking you are, go ahead and believe in your own propaganda. I rather be good at several skills instead of spending all my time trying to improve on one skill which wouldn't improve my life or elevate me to being above average. 

 

You don't get it , do you . It not about getting faster about around a track or not , it is about being able to use the car for it s end purpose and get enjoyment out of it .

If you like to use an iPhone to only do a few calls and a few text messages, it is up to you . But you loose lots of enjoyment about all the rest you could do with it , not mentioning that you could just buy a Nokia instead .

I don't mind what ever people do with their car , drive it or not , pose with it , no problem , people do what they want, but if dealers give cars only to these type of clients , then something is fucked up . And this is what is happening .

A bit of a miss for you to only enjoy buying the car , pose a few times , and that's it ...

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

Carlos from Spain:

IMO the dealers participate and profit in the flipping of cars, that is why actual drivers get the short end of the stick, they are less profitable for tje dealers, and Porsche looking the other way is their way to compensate the dealers for their tight profits and requirements, like a bonus, so Porsche also benefits, so there is no real incentive to stop it. They could do it in an instant if they wanted, but the only say they dont like flipping publicly for image reasons, but dont really act on it.

Correct .

Dave was denied an RS .1  Later he was told by one of the salesperson that they prefer to sell to older guys ( like over 60 ) that don't track their cars ...   Like that they are sure they get them back quickly, in pristine conditions with hardly any miles on them and probably also at a good price 

that is sad to hear... so much for racing heritage, sportscar DNA and all that BS from Porsche when you look to whom they prefer to sell their "GT" cars to 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Gnil:

nberry:

 

Let me be blunt. All I hear is carping about let the real drivers who put a lot of miles on the car get the get the allocations. Let them get to "know" the car. What the fuck does that mean? Getting around a track two seconds faster?

I'm not a track jockey and could give a rats ass if I improve my time around a stupid track by a couple of seconds. It will not change my life and provide any meaning. Clearly no one on this site is a master driver and never will be. If you get your jollies off thinking you are, go ahead and believe in your own propaganda. I rather be good at several skills instead of spending all my time trying to improve on one skill which wouldn't improve my life or elevate me to being above average. 

 

You don't get it , do you . It not about getting faster about around a track or not , it is about being able to use the car for it s end purpose and get enjoyment out of it .

If you like to use an iPhone to only do a few calls and a few text messages, it is up to you . But you loose lots of enjoyment about all the rest you could do with it , not mentioning that you could just buy a Nokia instead .

I don't mind what ever people do with their car , drive it or not , pose with it , no problem , people do what they want, but if dealers give cars only to these type of clients , then something is fucked up . And this is what is happening .

A bit of a miss for you to only enjoy buying the car , pose a few times , and that's it ...

x2!   I don't mind what use the owner makes of the car, that is up to him, and I'm not even judging, so if we are talking about a GTS Cab or a Turbo I don't see a problem, but does tick me off when it is with the limited GT's in accordance with the dealer because it is at the expense of potential owners that will actually use the car for the purpose it was designed for, they get shafted just so the dealer can sell a GT turned garage queen twice at an inflated price for nothing. The whole system is rotten.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

FWIW, when I turned in my .2GT3 my dealer told me I could sell privately and make about $15,000.He wasn't requiring me to sell it back to him. I had no interest in doing so.

I get my enjoyment exercising the car on public streets enjoying the different venues and situational driving. I don't need a track to enjoy the car. I'm an average driver nothing more but do enjoy the feel and sound of performance cars. I should also point out I have tracked Porsche's on several tracks including the fastest track in the west Willow Springs. After a couple of years doing this, my attitude was meh. I don't need to tear up my tires, brakes and whatever else to enjoy the car. A couple of years was more than enough.

What pisses me off is track guys claiming that those of us that do not track their cars don't deserve or be allowed to get GT cars. WTF, are you superior because you track your cars?

Being adventurous can be risky but routine is lethal.

Since when the GT3 are track cars? They are street cars that can occasionally be tracked...

Gnil:

 

Dave was denied an RS .1  Later he was told by one of the salesperson that they prefer to sell to older guys ( like over 60 ) that don't track their cars ...   

...well, then the 992 GT3 RS should come just in time for me 

I  cringe everytime I read or hear the word « allocation » in context with ordering a Porsche - who would have thought that the Porsche company of today has something in common with the former GDR’s « distribution policy » for the infamous Trabi (granted the currency back then was not € but political compliance)...

The analogy with luxury watch makers hits the nail on the head: Porsche has morphed into a luxury product manufacturer when in comes to the GT-lineup. Probably from a strict marketing perspective it would make even sense to « allocate » these cars directly from the factory - just can’t happen because OPCs would be pissed off of course...

Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3

Life is too short to get aggravated with this. There are plenty of other good cars around.

SciFrog:

Life is too short to get aggravated with this. There are plenty of other good cars around.

+1

2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White

nberry:

FWIW, when I turned in my .2GT3 my dealer told me I could sell privately and make about $15,000.He wasn't requiring me to sell it back to him. I had no interest in doing so.

I get my enjoyment exercising the car on public streets enjoying the different venues and situational driving. I don't need a track to enjoy the car. I'm an average driver nothing more but do enjoy the feel and sound of performance cars. I should also point out I have tracked Porsche's on several tracks including the fastest track in the west Willow Springs. After a couple of years doing this, my attitude was meh. I don't need to tear up my tires, brakes and whatever else to enjoy the car. A couple of years was more than enough.

What pisses me off is track guys claiming that those of us that do not track their cars don't deserve or be allowed to get GT cars. WTF, are you superior because you track your cars?

Maybe you have a chip on your shoulder about track ... No one is telling you track guys deserve more GT cars or are better . What we are saying is that it is unfair to discriminate people who use their cars on track . Because that is what is often happening .  Dealers selecting customers on the fact that they will get the car back quickly and hardly driven is unfair to the ones who would enjoy driving it on track, putting lots of miles on it etc.....

Everyone can enjoy his car as he wants . On the road, in his garage or at the track . That is not the issue . Personally on the road I get quickly bored as I feel constantly restrained and after the first 20 minutes of enjoying the sound and feel , I need something else . 

--

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

SciFrog:

Since when the GT3 are track cars? They are street cars that can occasionally be tracked...

You obviously have never seem the GT car's owner' s manual .

Yes, they are street cars, but developed to be tracked , not occasionally , 

There are several official Porsche track championships using standard GT cars ..... go figure 

--

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 

Including specific booklet for track usage...unique to GT cars.

GT cars first purpose is track duty. 

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

SciFrog:

Since when the GT3 are track cars? They are street cars that can occasionally be tracked...

They are track cars, not race cars though (even if Porsche marketing wants to make us believe that), they don't have much in common with their racing brothers. Still...pretty good track toys in the right hands and/or with the right setup.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Gnil:

SciFrog:

Since when the GT3 are track cars? They are street cars that can occasionally be tracked...

You obviously have never seem the GT car's owner' s manual .

Yes, they are street cars, but developed to be tracked , not occasionally , 

They are several official Porsche track championships using standard GT cars ..... 

Clubsport championships...the pro races are using GT race cars which are (almost) completely different than the street cars.  Still...I agree. The Porsche GT3 models are pretty neat track tools and the competition can barely cope with that, there aren't many cars in this price league to compete with them.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)