Crown

SciFrog:

There is no leather in Tesla cars...

fake leather then... even worst

GT Lover, Porsche fan

991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

Cayenne GTS 2014

They don’t want to kill cows, it’s by choice...

Cows are not killed for their leather, it is a by-product. They are domestic animals raised for their meat or dairy, once the cow dies or is killed for the meat, the hide is taken as well instead of having it go to waste. Not using leather in Tesla is just marketing BS, it is not saving any cows 

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Cows are not killed for their leather, it is a by-product. They are domestic animals raised for their meat or dairy, once the cow dies or is killed for the meat, the hide is taken as well instead of having it go to waste. Not using leather in Tesla is just marketing BS, it is not saving any cows 

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

But it sounds so good. It’s all about feelings because facts plainly don’t matter.  A good soundbite means far more than a sensible system that works, these days.  Cheers. 

PS don’t let on that we have to kill the cows for steaks. Everyone was blaming the people making leather goods and the meat was the byproduct. Dang. 

Carlos from Spain:

Cows are not killed for their leather, it is a by-product. They are domestic animals raised for their meat or dairy, once the cow dies or is killed for the meat, the hide is taken as well instead of having it go to waste. Not using leather in Tesla is just marketing BS, it is not saving any cows 

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Not only Tesla does this marketing BS, also Mercedes and others. They sell "vegan leather" for (almost) the same money as real leather and call this animal friendly. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

Carlos from Spain:

Cows are not killed for their leather, it is a by-product. They are domestic animals raised for their meat or dairy, once the cow dies or is killed for the meat, the hide is taken as well instead of having it go to waste. Not using leather in Tesla is just marketing BS, it is not saving any cows 

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Not only Tesla does this marketing BS, also Mercedes and others. They sell "vegan leather" for (almost) the same money as real leather and call this animal friendly. 

Yet most of those vegan leathers are blended from the finest of petroleum products.  

So someone have the time to dig deeper into Tesla's 10Q filings.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-had-a-record-third-quarter-so-why-do-doubts-persist-2018-11-12?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=ya...

And I guess as usual, it was accounting tricks that bought green colour to Tesla's bottom line. 

That 516mil quarterly profit? 189.5 mil of which is actually ZEV and green house gas credits. The GHG credits Tesla didn't disclose in the initial report, they only reported the 52mil in ZEV credits, it looks better as they had booked 54 mil in ZEV credits the quarter before. 

They also changed the way revenue is recorded, and as a result of that, they gained an extra 437.7 mil on the quarter. So in effect, they actually had a 111 mil loss in the quarter. 

And that was before counting some other accounting tricks they had used. 

A change in put away amount for warranty claim has saved 56mil.

The new accounting method they used to book the extra 437.7 mil also results in an additional 117.1mil in lowered inventory cost.

Then another 72.8mil more from booking fleet cars as service loaners, assets in other words. 

There was also an increase in account receivable from 569.9mil to 1.2bil. This is from the cash back Tesla had asked their suppliers to give back. But some of which would also be from bank financed purchase loans. Which is not reported separately.

Bottom line is that this past 3Q result is not directly comparable to previous results. And using the previous Tesla standards, there would have been a loss reported again, in the range of ~360mil to ~ 1bil depending on the account receivable line. 

Not so impressive after all.

And yet the stock is up 3% hovering around $340 so clearly someone is liking the 10Q... As said previously, some of the tricks they used cannot be repeated, so this quater will tell the real story.

It seems that some of the tricks were to balance the fact that Tesla did not delivered and get paid for all the cars that were ready at the end of the quarter and apparently there had to be a lot as production really ramped up during the quarter. Over time this will smooth out.

long time not reading the post...so is tesla bankrupt? or did it manage to produce all the model 3 cars that was in the plan…..did recieve letters from tesla..but never read them...the model 3 will be in europe 2019 2020 i guess...so my downpayment will be safe i guess???

and also today we go bankrupt tomorrow it seems

993 c2

SciFrog:

And yet the stock is up 3% hovering around $340 so clearly someone is liking the 10Q... As said previously, some of the tricks they used cannot be repeated, so this quater will tell the real story.

It seems that some of the tricks were to balance the fact that Tesla did not delivered and get paid for all the cars that were ready at the end of the quarter and apparently there had to be a lot as production really ramped up during the quarter. Over time this will smooth out.

No yes, they did ramped up production a lot. Everyone can see that. They are making more cars than ever, and the highway up and down the country is full of transport containing the cars to be delivered.

The question is profitability per car, or lack of. Up until now, Tesla is still haven't been honest about the real margin of their production. Every quarter they use this or that to artificially inflate or obscure important details. 

Which, is extremely important to Tesla and investors. Tesla have a keen interest on painting a rosier picture than they really are just so they don't get into a cash crunch, liquidity problem. They need to do whatever it takes to prop up the stock price to avoid paying cash out to their debt. Once those matured and convetred to stock options, they couldn't care less if the loaner made money or loses their pants. And this and the next quarter is the most important ones, as those debts are due. After they survive the next couple quarters they got a lot more time until the next due date, which buys them time to get better.

Even if the convertibles expire, they will not have any issue raising cash or worst case (for Elon) sell more shares. They say the cost to buld a Model 3 has gone down 30% in one quarter. Surely there is more they can do.

Looks like Elon is getting out of cars and into alcoholics 

"MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Tesla Inc co-founder Elon Musk and Mexico’s tequila producers could be headed for a collision after the agave-based drink’s industry group opposed the flamboyant billionaire’s efforts to trademark an alcoholic drink dubbed “Teslaquila.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-mexico-tequila/elon-musks-teslaquila-drink-faces-clash-with-mexican-tequila-industry-id...

Best of both worlds for European market. This car will sell like hot cakes when they start deliveries in late Q1 2019.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/105236/tesla-to-open-up-ccs-fast-charging-for-european-model-3-model-s-and-model-x

The option to use CCS chargers is very good news. Thanks for sharing

lukestern:

Best of both worlds for European market. This car will sell like hot cakes when they start deliveries in late Q1 2019.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/105236/tesla-to-open-up-ccs-fast-charging-for-european-model-3-model-s-and-model-x

A lot of car makers have spoken to us about it, but we haven’t had any conclusive discussions on it. They’re still trying to figure out what they would need in a network, but we’re a couple of years ahead of them in terms of embracing the investment required to transition to EVs.

Yeah, right.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

RC:

lukestern:

Best of both worlds for European market. This car will sell like hot cakes when they start deliveries in late Q1 2019.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/105236/tesla-to-open-up-ccs-fast-charging-for-european-model-3-model-s-and-model-x

A lot of car makers have spoken to us about it, but we haven’t had any conclusive discussions on it. They’re still trying to figure out what they would need in a network, but we’re a couple of years ahead of them in terms of embracing the investment required to transition to EVs.

Yeah, right.  

Please share some real figures and proof backing up that statement 

There is absolute nothing that compete with Model 3 in Europe during next year when you consider price, performance, fast charging convenience and range. And the coming cars from VW group is very welcome, but that will not affect Teslas sales. Probably the other way around because VW will spend a lot of marketing budget in educating people about EVs which will get more people interested in EVs and hence the market will grow even faster. All EVs rolling off the production line will be sold instantly somewhere in USA, Europe or China. Biggest challenge for the German car manufacturers will probably be the ability to combine sales of EVs and ICE cars and balance sales of EVs (where they make less profit) with sales of ICE cars where they make more profit. More and more customers will come into the showrooms asking for EVs and people will very soon realize that an EV is a solid proposition for many customers and their needs. Quicker transition in certain markets of course and others will lag.

Tesla have also to some extend found a new category of car buyers and have differentiated the product from the rest of the players with the tech focus and minimalistic approach. It's not for everyone of course, but for many enough. The competition between Mercedes, BMW and VW group will be a battle also. Don't forget that. The supply of batteries being the biggest bottle neck the coming 5 years.

A lot of Model 3 will be on the roads in Europe next year and this will for sure affect sales from the other car manufacturers. Let's see how things play out. Exciting times for sure!

Just a bit off topic here, except perhaps as a Tesla competitor, but announced in LA this new US EV brand called Rivian, which plans to start with... a pickup, and a SUV.  Very clean styling, some interesting variants on electric tech.  Since they haven't done much yet, their financial picture is impeccable .  But another sign that this space will be getting crowded soon.

https://products.rivian.com/suv/

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2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

4trac:

Just a bit off topic here, except perhaps as a Tesla competitor, but announced in LA this new US EV brand called Rivian, which plans to start with... a pickup, and a SUV.  Very clean styling, some interesting variants on electric tech.  Since they haven't done much yet, their financial picture is impeccable .  But another sign that this space will be getting crowded soon.

https://products.rivian.com/suv/

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2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

 

Performance is sick, especially for those high powered versions. Looks cool too but RRs are nicer...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

I love the look of the pickup. And they had some great specs, as well as some smart design and storage solutions.

What has happened to Tesla's growth in Q4?

Boxster Coupe GTS:

What has happened to Tesla's growth in Q4?

Initial pent-up demand coupled with the drawdown on EV tax credits in the States.  Next year should prove interesting.   One is a bit surprised that there isn't any discussion on Musk's statement a few days ago that Tesla, this summer, was single-digit weeks' away from death.  This comment, once again, raises eyebrows about SEC disclosure requirements if this issue persisted over multiple reporting periods.  https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2018/11/28/elon-musk-said-tesla-was-single-digit-weeks-from-deathwheres-the-disclosures/#168329f76212 

I just drove a Model 3 for the first time this weekend. It was a very short drive around a few blocks on an acquaintance's car, but I have to say it was an impressive experience. So different from anything else I've driven before. The way the thing picks up speed is very cool. 

Enmanuel:

I just drove a Model 3 for the first time this weekend. It was a very short drive around a few blocks on an acquaintance's car, but I have to say it was an impressive experience. So different from anything else I've driven before. The way the thing picks up speed is very cool. 

There is no debate that the torque curve profile of an EV is significantly different than that of an ICE.  Even throttle response should be more instantaneous with the EV as electrons move quicker than air columns in the intake manifold. This is just as true with the Nissan Leaf or the GM EV-1 back in the 1990s.  

CGX car nut:

Enmanuel:

I just drove a Model 3 for the first time this weekend. It was a very short drive around a few blocks on an acquaintance's car, but I have to say it was an impressive experience. So different from anything else I've driven before. The way the thing picks up speed is very cool. 

There is no debate that the torque curve profile of an EV is significantly different than that of an ICE.  Even throttle response should be more instantaneous with the EV as electrons move quicker than air columns in the intake manifold. This is just as true with the Nissan Leaf or the GM EV-1 back in the 1990s.  

Or a electric golf cart................

I’ve seen quite a few golf carts sharing the driveway with supercars in my hood in Miami 

SciFrog:

I’ve seen quite a few golf carts sharing the driveway with supercars in my hood in Miami 

Golf carts are nice if the bylaws allow them. Quick trip the mail box? Or to a neighbour? 

But it can't go fast or far, so to places out of the subdivision them a proper car is needed.

Sort of similar idea with EVs right now.

When I go around town in the 918, most of the time I am in e-mode. But any farther I engage the engine.

If and when I get my Taycan, it will probably be used this way too, a city car, say to and from downtown where they have great parking for EVs and hybrids. 

Farther trips it's the gasoline cars for sure.

BTW, it will be interesting time for Tesla for the next 3 months.

Their 920 mil convertible bond is due and the magic price is $360.

Elon & Co have an extremely good incentive to do anything and everything to keep the price above $360.

Now if their next quarterly report is as good as the last one and convince people that Tesla's magic quarter is not a flash in the pan but can be sustained, then the price target shouldn't be hard to surpass.

Details in the report will need to be closely examined, to see if Tesla again is using their old bag of tricks to inflate the numbers in order to prop up the price to get past March.

So what do the auditors do???

991 Carrera Black Edition, XC90 Black\Black - 2 kids, 1 dog

You do realize the tricks they use are legal right? They are a public company, you cannot outright cheat. But there are ways to be creative especially for a growing company like Tesla. The only thing is that at some point you run out of tricks and a truer picture comes up. Like Nick inferred, it could show this quarter, or the next, but since these large convertible mature in Q1, you can be sure they will try to use some tricks again.

I don't understand the worry about the converts. Yes there is no way in the world they're replacing them with another round of 0.25% paper but there is also no way in the world that they are not getting replaced with new paper. And should the world implode between now and March they are still sitting on enough cash to pay out the bond holders. There is no triggering event here. 

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region