Sep 10, 2004 7:02:08 AM
- dmitrienkor
- Newbie
-
- Loc: ca marina del rey
- Posts: 4, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 24, 2004
Crown
Board: Porsche
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Just heard Sonnen in SF region is trying to peddle a CGT w/150 miles (apparently rejected by guy who had ordered it) for only $430K ask. Is the CGT mkt only cratering in US...or is pricing and demand more robust in London and Monte Carlo?....My understanding is, though Gallardo mkt cratered in US (ex-SF), some savvy brokers arbitraged mkt pricing differentials by buying used G's in US for shipment to London, which apparently was starved for G.....gotta love crass American capitalism 
.....perhaps an option for the US CGT glut?
.....perhaps an option for the US CGT glut?
Re: 2004 carrera gt
The car at Sonnen is mine. After the Labor Day weekend with my Murcielago, with lots of fun, no anxiety, miles, I made the decision to sell my car. The most emotional decision I have made around the car. After 4,000 miles, I just threw in the towel and dealing with the CGT clutch. Very sad for me as it was four years ago in Paris when I first saw the concept of the CGT. I am so disappointed the car did not meet my expectations and my intended use.
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
Larry B said:
The car at Sonnen is mine. After the Labor Day weekend with my Murcielago, with lots of fun, no anxiety, miles, I made the decision to sell my car. The most emotional decision I have made around the car. After 4,000 miles, I just threw in the towel and dealing with the CGT clutch. Very sad for me as it was four years ago in Paris when I first saw the concept of the CGT. I am so disappointed the car did not meet my expectations and my intended use.
Larry, sorry to hear about your experience w/CGT. Let's see if P can solve this car's issues. I had seriously considered getting CGT, but backed away after initial negative feedback from pals who had gotten it (as well as your very insightful feedback). I hope P hasn't alienated long-time loyalists re: notion of any future $200K+ P after P's initial failures w/CGT....
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
VKSF said:Quote:
Larry B said:
The car at Sonnen is mine. After the Labor Day weekend with my Murcielago, with lots of fun, no anxiety, miles, I made the decision to sell my car. The most emotional decision I have made around the car. After 4,000 miles, I just threw in the towel and dealing with the CGT clutch. Very sad for me as it was four years ago in Paris when I first saw the concept of the CGT. I am so disappointed the car did not meet my expectations and my intended use.
Larry, sorry to hear about your experience w/CGT. Let's see if P can solve this car's issues. I had seriously considered getting CGT, but backed away after initial negative feedback from pals who had gotten it (as well as your very insightful feedback). I hope P hasn't alienated long-time loyalists re: notion of any future $200K+ P after P's initial failures w/CGT....
What makes it particularly tragic is Larry is a Porschephile and a fantastic car enthusiast.His driving experience (both track and public roads)is substantially more than any of us can dream of having. For him to walk away from this car really says a lot. Damn it Porsche listen up!!
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
lev said:
Larry,
Sorry to hear that. I guess CGT was the only car in your collection with REAL manual transmission....
May be that was the partial reason you didnt like its clutch.
I'm sure Larry can defend himself but I don't think his previous 911 turbos were automatics! Give it a rest on Larry guys. The guy is a serious enthusiast who is more than qualified to drive sticks.
Re: 2004 carrera gt
On one hand:
"Just heard Sonnen in SF region is trying to peddle a CGT w/150 miles (apparently rejected by guy who had ordered it) for only $430K ask."
On the oher hand:
"The car at Sonnen is mine... After 4,000 miles, I [Larry B] just threw in the towel and dealing with the CGT clutch. "
So... is Sonnen saying that Larry's car w/ 4000 miles only has 150 miles?
"Just heard Sonnen in SF region is trying to peddle a CGT w/150 miles (apparently rejected by guy who had ordered it) for only $430K ask."
On the oher hand:
"The car at Sonnen is mine... After 4,000 miles, I [Larry B] just threw in the towel and dealing with the CGT clutch. "
So... is Sonnen saying that Larry's car w/ 4000 miles only has 150 miles?
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
ADias said:
On one hand:
"Just heard Sonnen in SF region is trying to peddle a CGT w/150 miles (apparently rejected by guy who had ordered it) for only $430K ask."
On the oher hand:
"The car at Sonnen is mine... After 4,000 miles, I [Larry B] just threw in the towel and dealing with the CGT clutch. "
So... is Sonnen saying that Larry's car w/ 4000 miles only has 150 miles?
I doubt it seriously. Someone probably "heard" it wrong. There is a reason heresay doesn't carry much weight.
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
ben, lj said:Quote:
ADias said:
On one hand:
"Just heard Sonnen in SF region is trying to peddle a CGT w/150 miles (apparently rejected by guy who had ordered it) for only $430K ask."
On the oher hand:
"The car at Sonnen is mine... After 4,000 miles, I [Larry B] just threw in the towel and dealing with the CGT clutch. "
So... is Sonnen saying that Larry's car w/ 4000 miles only has 150 miles?
I doubt it seriously. Someone probably "heard" it wrong. There is a reason heresay doesn't carry much weight.
Erroneous facts in hearsay are always a possibility. But it seems clear to casual observer that US CGT mkt is not robust, and many P enthusiasts (and capable manual drivers) are disappointed w/P and its CGT. The mkt price of CGT over next 6-12 months will be an insightful datapoint re: CGT's market success.....let's hope P is watching (and learning) as well....
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Someone posted on here a few days back that hey heard P was addressing the clutch, ride height, and harshness. If that was/is true, and it should be from all the negative feedback, then why wouldn't ben move his production slot from nov. till 2006 perhaps. Porsche should come out and say we are addressing these problems and stop production until it is accomplished. Then people would have no reason to try to jump out of their contracts unless it is really a money issue. I would like porsche to do this as it would show their committment to real enthusiasts and also to see if these buyers bought what they thought was an "investment" or a "car".
Tom
Tom
Re: 2004 carrera gt
i agree. if you don't do laps on the ring daily, the CGT is becoming kind of a tragic story.
first, it is suggested to be the practical supercar. but due to the clutch, it simply isn't. it's the first porsche you'd rather look at than drive.
second, they decided to build 1,500 units. way too much IMO to hold it's value reasonable.
third, 0-300km/h performance really was a major disappointment in comparison to enzo and SLR (see RC's post regarding this).
first, it is suggested to be the practical supercar. but due to the clutch, it simply isn't. it's the first porsche you'd rather look at than drive.
second, they decided to build 1,500 units. way too much IMO to hold it's value reasonable.
third, 0-300km/h performance really was a major disappointment in comparison to enzo and SLR (see RC's post regarding this).
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
zzboba said:
second, they decided to build 1,500 units. way too much IMO to hold it's value reasonable.
But this is half of my point. It was circulated around the web that Porsche made it clear that "anyone who wanted one would get one". I think that is the way porsche and any real company should run. This may have some impact on the real irritation level of the clutch etc. Let the poseur's (as ben says) stay with the horse if they want limited production lawn ornaments. Porsche should correct any legitimate shortcomings and then hold everyone to their contract.
Tom
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
racerx said:
Someone posted on here a few days back that hey heard P was addressing the clutch, ride height, and harshness. If that was/is true, and it should be from all the negative feedback, then why wouldn't ben move his production slot from nov. till 2006 perhaps. Porsche should come out and say we are addressing these problems and stop production until it is accomplished.
Because there are a schitload of CGTs available at MSRP for immediate delivery and we're only through the first year of production. If I or anyone else wants one in 06, we won't need a contract with Porsche to get one in a week. Incidentally I was the one who reported about Porsche's attempt to address the clutch via an ECU adjustment. That information now seems to be more than just a little optimistic.
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
ben, lj said:Quote:
lev said:
Larry,
Sorry to hear that. I guess CGT was the only car in your collection with REAL manual transmission....
May be that was the partial reason you didnt like its clutch.
I'm sure Larry can defend himself but I don't think his previous 911 turbos were automatics! Give it a rest on Larry guys. The guy is a serious enthusiast who is more than qualified to drive sticks.
Ben:
Larry's 996TT that was used in the Excellence article was a tip. His other car in the article was a manual.
To everyone else:
Who on this forum has put 4000+ miles on a CGT other than Larry? Who here is more qualified from EXPERIENCE to speak about the CGT's clutch than Larry--and who isn't a Porsche employee or apologist?
Greg A
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
lev said:
Larry,
Sorry to hear that. I guess CGT was the only car in your collection with REAL manual transmission....
May be that was the partial reason you didnt like its clutch.
Another rookie amateur incapable of driving a stick like Larry, me, and the dozen or so magazine writers (except maybe for Jay Leno who mysteriously got exclusive use of a CGT for 500+ miles despite never having bought a Pcar before):
Jeremy Clarkson's review of the Carrera GT relative to the SLR
"The Porsche, on the other hand, isn't even easy to get off the line. You stall, one time in five."
A 20% stall rate on the track is cute, but on the street, that's how $125k rear end jobs at stop lights requiring shipping back to Germany for repair occur.
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
lev said:
Nick,
What about those Enzos with blown engines because of hot NY weather having 100 miles only? I bet their owners didnt go away bur run away from those cars
Lev, what does the Enzo have to do with this thread?
In defending Porsche focus on what they should be doing rather than lashing out at other owners or cars.
Re: 2004 carrera gt
OK, we know the clutch is HARD to use.
But i refuse to believe it's IMPOSSIBLE to learn, and if I was in that position i'd try over and over again, a full year, if i have to, until i'd learn how to control it perfectly. My satisfaction would be _immense_ knowing i won the fight with the clutch, and i can master the car.
I surely wouldn't give up. It's the best porsche ever, learning how to drive it properly is a more than acceptable trade-off, IMHO.
"The Porsche, on the other hand, isn't even easy to get off the line. You stall, one time in five."
If a new guy (CLARKSON!) can manage 4 good starts out of 5, how long until 49 out of 50? Or 499 out of 500?
edited: horrible spelling
But i refuse to believe it's IMPOSSIBLE to learn, and if I was in that position i'd try over and over again, a full year, if i have to, until i'd learn how to control it perfectly. My satisfaction would be _immense_ knowing i won the fight with the clutch, and i can master the car.
I surely wouldn't give up. It's the best porsche ever, learning how to drive it properly is a more than acceptable trade-off, IMHO.
"The Porsche, on the other hand, isn't even easy to get off the line. You stall, one time in five."
If a new guy (CLARKSON!) can manage 4 good starts out of 5, how long until 49 out of 50? Or 499 out of 500?
edited: horrible spelling
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
brunner said:
OK, we know the clutch is HARD to use.
But i refuse to believe it's IMPOSSIBLE to learn, and if I was in that position i'd try over and over again, a full year, if i have to, until i'd learn how to control it perfectly, and my satisfaction would be _immense_ knowing i won the fight with the clutch, and i can master the car.
I surely wouldn't give up. It's the best porsche ever, learning how to drive it properly is something is a more than acceptable trade-off, IMHO.
...
Exactly my opinion. Anyways, I believe not a lot of people have the tendency to do so - cars have to be much more convenient than in the past!
I don't see a sense in discussing this even further. Opinions have been answered and as long as I don't get the chance to drive - or own - a CGT I won't comment on this even further!
Greetings!
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
brunner said:
OK, we know the clutch is HARD to use.
But i refuse to believe it's IMPOSSIBLE to learn, and if I was in that position i'd try over and over again, a full year, if i have to, until i'd learn how to control it perfectly, and my satisfaction would be _immense_ knowing i won the fight with the clutch, and i can master the car.
I surely wouldn't give up. It's the best porsche ever, learning how to drive it properly is something is a more than acceptable trade-off, IMHO.
"The Porsche, on the other hand, isn't even easy to get off the line. You stall, one time in five."
If a new guy (CLARKSON!) can manage 4 good starts out of 5, how long until 49 out of 50? Or 499 out of 500?
Now let me understand what you are advocating.
1.Pay $500,000 for a car which is represented to be for every day use.
2.Drive it 4000 miles and confirm what every reviewer who has driven the car has criticized; low harsh ride and a clutch which will stall starts regardless of skill level (prof. drivers are stalling it).
3.Complain to Porsche and Porsche basically tells you learn to drive stick because there is nothing wrong with the clutch.
4.Accept what Porsche tells you and keep practicing while NOT enjoy your $500,000 car.If you never master the clutch; so what; you own Porsche greatest car.!!
Brunner, I cannot believe either you, Ferdie or RC would accept that.
Re: 2004 carrera gt
I never said Larry doesnt know how to drive manual trans. Read my post again. All what I am saying and actually Larry too that comparing to his other cars that he has currently CGT is impossible to drive. He specifically mentions Lambo in his past.
Now look at his cars, only CGT is manual. May be CGT is not for everybody, actually it is for just 1500 most lucky folks on our planet.
I sometimes getting tired from my daily ride too - 996TT and so once in a week I can drive CL600.
Now look at his cars, only CGT is manual. May be CGT is not for everybody, actually it is for just 1500 most lucky folks on our planet.
I sometimes getting tired from my daily ride too - 996TT and so once in a week I can drive CL600.
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
nberry said:
...Brunner, I cannot believe either you, Ferdie or RC would accept that.
Well okay, one more comment. Again I cannot comment on that issue since I have NOT driven the car. So what else to say?
I have driven different cars with very tricky clutches. When I drove the 996 Mk.1 the very first time and I didn't concentrate on launching I could also stall it. Anyways, you get acustomed to that.
The CGT is definately a demanding car. If you appreciate the ride is up to you - cannot comment on that. Anyways, it if funny that even the above mentioned Jeremy Clarkson, definately not a Porsche-phile, finds this car the most thrilling he has ever driven. So who should I believe? You or Clarkson?
You know what, I don't care. I am not in the target group for this car right now so I won't sy anything. Not willing to pay several bucks to buy a car that is too challenging or not sufficient for you is totally fine. It is just sad that either Porsche set-up the car wrong or people don't appreciate the route they went!
As a side-note, Mercedes installed 600kgs of additional or differring equipment on the street version of the CLK-LM. This car had a "semi-"sequential gearbox (you had to handle the clutch by yourself) with electro-hydraulically engaged gearbox and cost more than 1 Million bucks! I don't think this car - or the Porsche GT1 for example - is any more or less demanding than the CGT but I didn't hear anybody complaining about it!
That's it!
Greetings!
Re: 2004 carrera gt
Quote:
nberry said:Now let me understand what you are advocating.
I am not advocating anything.
I just stated my opinion. To you, Larry, and a lot of other people, the clutch issue is a burden.
I see it as a challenge, and life would be boring without challenges. Not to mention the great reward that comes with overcoming that challenge.
I am not judging anyone, we are all mature and responsable, fully capable of making our own choices. The CGT and its clutch is one.
(and hopefully one day i'll be able to make that choice)
Quote:
Brunner, I cannot believe either you, Ferdie or RC would accept that.
Diversity makes life great, Nick. I too cannot believe some things you're accepting, but it doesn't bother me at all.
To each his own.
A testdrive being totally out of the question, i have to rely on other people's opinion on the CGT. Everybody said it's the most exciting car they've ever driven, in spite of having the tricky clutch.
So i don't think i'd be too miserable trying to learn the damn thing
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
