09.10.2008 12:40:13
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Ron (Houston)
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09.10.2008 12:55:17
- JoeRockhead
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Antwort auf:
Ron (Houston)
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
If this is a car designed to be driven by anyone, anywhere, why do they need to give lessons to people on the special technique required to drive the GT-R? Combine that with the warranty issues and it really doesn't seem like it would be that much fun to own one.
FWIW, it's funny how they bill Toshio Suzuki as an ex-Formula 1 driver. His career spanned a whopping 2 races and he didn't score any points, although he did manage to finish both.
This whole thing is getting ridiculous.
FWIW, it's funny how they bill Toshio Suzuki as an ex-Formula 1 driver. His career spanned a whopping 2 races and he didn't score any points, although he did manage to finish both.
This whole thing is getting ridiculous.
09.10.2008 14:23:10
- MMD
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09.10.2008 16:57:06
- Heist
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- Antwort auf: JoeRockhead
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
JoeRockhead said:
If this is a car designed to be driven by anyone, anywhere, why do they need to give lessons to people on the special technique required to drive the GT-R? Combine that with the warranty issues and it really doesn't seem like it would be that much fun to own one.
FWIW, it's funny how they bill Toshio Suzuki as an ex-Formula 1 driver. His career spanned a whopping 2 races and he didn't score any points, although he did manage to finish both.
This whole thing is getting ridiculous.
Not a valid argument. How many F1 drivers spent YEARS in F1 without scoring a single point.
To get a F1 seat - that alone means you're in the top 5% of drivers in the world.
09.10.2008 16:59:46
- Heist
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09.10.2008 19:44:18
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
with this Nissan has lost their shot at any credibility of a come back rebutle of Porsche's claim. POrsche has the most history of all makers in using the ring a a testing and developing ground and have also been testing all the competition cars for years on end as is normal for makers to do that, except that Porsche uses the Ring. Best thing Nissan can come up with is "you sure you broke-in the car properly (as opposed to press cars 
) and you know how to drive sportcars around the NRing?"
Now I know Saurma won't be getting a Euro spec production GT-R until the end of the GT-R's production life cicle
) and you know how to drive sportcars around the NRing?"
Now I know Saurma won't be getting a Euro spec production GT-R until the end of the GT-R's production life cicle
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
My question is, a motor company that invented a powerful rear engine since the 1900s will have any difficulty driving a car with advanced 4wd + front engine and an auto/dsg box ?
This news is either from the comical section on the last page or the techs at nissan have been overdrinking
My question is, a motor company that invented a powerful rear engine since the 1900s will have any difficulty driving a car with advanced 4wd + front engine and an auto/dsg box ?
This news is either from the comical section on the last page or the techs at nissan have been overdrinking
09.10.2008 21:04:21
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Marwan Arakji
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Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
I'm sorry guys... I think it's pretty sad and pathetic how Porsche is handling this whole thing... I believe if Nissan said they did it, it means they DID IT... what Porsche should be doing is refining their TT and taking down the GT-R, before the GT-R V is out soon, and before it decimates whatever Porsche has to say... the V should have 50 bhp more, and 250 kgs less... it will squash the TT and the the GT2... get it together Porsche and stop being a cry-baby, or like a famous man on TV once said: "girly man"! hehehe 
09.10.2008 21:09:19
- reginos
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- Antwort auf: Marwan Arakji
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:
I'm sorry guys... I think it's pretty sad and pathetic how Porsche is handling this whole thing... I believe if Nissan said they did it, it means they DID IT... what Porsche should be doing is refining their TT and taking down the GT-R, before the GT-R V is out soon, and before it decimates whatever Porsche has to say... the V should have 50 bhp more, and 250 kgs less... it will squash the TT and the the GT2... get it together Porsche and stop being a cry-baby, or like a famous man on TV once said: "girly man"! hehehe
Interesting article with fresh perspective here:
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/
09.10.2008 21:20:18
- reginos
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Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
reginos said:
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/
I stopped reading after this paragraph:
First, there was the pretty-hard-to-believe 7:38 time which the fine journalists at Edmunds advertised, excuse me, reported, followed by the no-really-you-have-to-be-kidding 7:34 time, and finally the don't-insult-our-collective-intelligence 7:29 shared with the world in a breathless press release a few months later. The Nissan media blitz was so successful that when Horst von Saurma obtained a 7:50 time from a real production GT-R, it went virtually unreported by the major automotive rags. Where'd those twenty-one seconds between von Saurma's drive and Nissan's "test" come from?
Von Saurma didn't test a production GT-R. He tested a pre-production GT-R and clocked a 7:50. I think that he tested the GT-R the same day when Suzuki did the 7:38.
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
Walter said:Quote:
reginos said:
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/
I stopped reading after this paragraph:
First, there was the pretty-hard-to-believe 7:38 time which the fine journalists at Edmunds advertised, excuse me, reported, followed by the no-really-you-have-to-be-kidding 7:34 time, and finally the don't-insult-our-collective-intelligence 7:29 shared with the world in a breathless press release a few months later. The Nissan media blitz was so successful that when Horst von Saurma obtained a 7:50 time from a real production GT-R, it went virtually unreported by the major automotive rags. Where'd those twenty-one seconds between von Saurma's drive and Nissan's "test" come from?
Von Saurma didn't test a production GT-R. He tested a pre-production GT-R and clocked a 7:50. I think that he tested the GT-R the same day when Suzuki did the 7:38.
Those who have been following this matter attentively from the beginning knew all along that von Saurma's "quick and dirty" lap in a development car was not necessarily representative of what a "stock" GTR should be able to do. The informed "doubters" have not based their scepticism about Nissan's claims on that particular von Saurma time.
That's why you'll see several posts in the various relevant threads saying that we'll have to wait until von Saurma is given an Euro spec production car for a full Sport Auto Supertest sometime next year. Only then will we have a relatively reliable time from a neutral source which has been obtained under conditions comparable to those pertaining to other similar cars' lap times.
10.10.2008 05:54:44
- Spyderidol
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- Antwort auf: Walter
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
Walter said:Quote:
reginos said:
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/
I stopped reading after this paragraph:
That's a pity, because it is really quite a good read.
10.10.2008 07:32:03
- temm
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Antwort auf:
Ron (Houston)
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
http://jalopnik.com/5060960/nissan-offic...driving-lessons
Fantastic, go Nissan!
(There's not enough sarcasm in the auto industry)
10.10.2008 07:33:54
- temm
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- Antwort auf: SadoTorque
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
SadoTorque said:
Nissan: You can't drive for sh*t
Porsche: No you didn't. Lets have a dance off. Cue the music.
LOL, and I know exactly what music they should use as well, it goes something like "Can't touch this......STOP, Hammer Time"
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Good/decent article (http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/ ):
"Let's take a moment to talk about lap times. Consider the following: Last year, I set the fastest Spec Focus lap at the NASA National Championships at 1:45.620. At this year's Champs, the best lap was 1:48.170, despite the fact that the Spec Focus rules now allow wider tires and lower suspension. Do you really think I'm two and a half seconds better than the best guy was this year, particularly considering that he was driving a better-equipped car? Of course not. Mid-Ohio was slow this year because it rained the day before and washed the rubber off the track, taking a couple of seconds off everybody's lap. Consider, if you will, that on a track the length of the 'Ring the equivalent rain-washing time gap would be nine and a half seconds. Lap times set on different days, under different conditions, simply aren't comparable. It's that simple. Some days are hot, some days are cool, some days there's rubber on the track, some days there's oil. The same competent driver, in the same car, might have a fifteen-second variation from one 'Ring session to the next. Think about that."
"Let's take a moment to talk about lap times. Consider the following: Last year, I set the fastest Spec Focus lap at the NASA National Championships at 1:45.620. At this year's Champs, the best lap was 1:48.170, despite the fact that the Spec Focus rules now allow wider tires and lower suspension. Do you really think I'm two and a half seconds better than the best guy was this year, particularly considering that he was driving a better-equipped car? Of course not. Mid-Ohio was slow this year because it rained the day before and washed the rubber off the track, taking a couple of seconds off everybody's lap. Consider, if you will, that on a track the length of the 'Ring the equivalent rain-washing time gap would be nine and a half seconds. Lap times set on different days, under different conditions, simply aren't comparable. It's that simple. Some days are hot, some days are cool, some days there's rubber on the track, some days there's oil. The same competent driver, in the same car, might have a fifteen-second variation from one 'Ring session to the next. Think about that."
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
Pentium said:
Good/decent article (http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/ ):
"Let's take a moment to talk about lap times. Consider the following: Last year, I set the fastest Spec Focus lap at the NASA National Championships at 1:45.620. At this year's Champs, the best lap was 1:48.170, despite the fact that the Spec Focus rules now allow wider tires and lower suspension. Do you really think I'm two and a half seconds better than the best guy was this year, particularly considering that he was driving a better-equipped car? Of course not. Mid-Ohio was slow this year because it rained the day before and washed the rubber off the track, taking a couple of seconds off everybody's lap. Consider, if you will, that on a track the length of the 'Ring the equivalent rain-washing time gap would be nine and a half seconds. Lap times set on different days, under different conditions, simply aren't comparable. It's that simple. Some days are hot, some days are cool, some days there's rubber on the track, some days there's oil. The same competent driver, in the same car, might have a fifteen-second variation from one 'Ring session to the next. Think about that."
"fifteen-second variation" - Porsche say it's 25 seconds... "big" difference for "lap times".
10.10.2008 13:44:18
- amjf088
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Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
Spyderidol said:Quote:
Walter said:Quote:
reginos said:
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/10/01/avoidable-contact-17-cheating-nissan-bitter-porsche/
I stopped reading after this paragraph:
That's a pity, because it is really quite a good read.
+10
Exactly what I thought. Too quick to jump.
Although the article writer may not have properly understood the circumstances of Von Saurma's GTR lap, it was actually a very sensible read. Nurburgring times are really a pretty silly benchmark given the great amount of variability of conditions overlaid with numerous opportunities for gamesmanship. As the article opined: No one has cheated, because there are no rules.
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
One thing bothers me, and it is an argument Nick will probably turn up with sooner or later:
Whenever a car gas a faster 0-60 time than a 911, "we" (the porsche fans) react with a reference that those times are silly and that the car should prove itself on the 'ring.
Now there is a car that has done some 'ring tim (not gonna say whether it was cheating or not), and now we say that ringtimes are silly!
-Joost-
PS: Nick, it was meant in good fun, bud!
Whenever a car gas a faster 0-60 time than a 911, "we" (the porsche fans) react with a reference that those times are silly and that the car should prove itself on the 'ring.
Now there is a car that has done some 'ring tim (not gonna say whether it was cheating or not), and now we say that ringtimes are silly!
-Joost-
PS: Nick, it was meant in good fun, bud!
10.10.2008 20:17:00
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MKSGR
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Antwort auf:
Ron (Houston)
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
http://jalopnik.com/5060960/nissan-offic...driving-lessons
It seems that Porsche was spot on. Nissan does not even reject the Porsche claims in clear words (which would be appropriate if Nissan was certain that Porsche did not tell the truth). In essence by this statement Nissan confirms having cheated the public...
10.10.2008 20:20:37
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MKSGR
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- Antwort auf: Marwan Arakji
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:
I'm sorry guys... I think it's pretty sad and pathetic how Porsche is handling this whole thing... I believe if Nissan said they did it, it means they DID IT... what Porsche should be doing is refining their TT and taking down the GT-R, before the GT-R V is out soon, and before it decimates whatever Porsche has to say... the V should have 50 bhp more, and 250 kgs less... it will squash the TT and the the GT2... get it together Porsche and stop being a cry-baby, or like a famous man on TV once said: "girly man"! hehehe
The V-Spec will be as sh*tty as the GTR
Re: Nissan recommends Driving lessons for Porsche
Quote:
amjf088 said:
Nurburgring times are really a pretty silly benchmark given the great amount of variability of conditions overlaid with numerous opportunities for gamesmanship. As the article opined: No one has cheated, because there are no rules.
Oversimplificaton.
I understand the concept that if a game has no rules then noone can be accused of cheating, but if someone claims a gamescore which does not fit into the "framework" of all preceding scores then he shouldn't be surprised if others cry "foul".
Also, I doubt that even Nissan would now claim that they had not cheated because they were just playing the game to their own rules.
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