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Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring times
Quote:
eclou said:
GT-R lies revealed
This testing seems to support Horst von Saurma's contention that the GT-R is a 7:5x car as well
thread already exists
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=478263&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD
Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring times
And it gets juicier: http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../71017001/1065 Quote: But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58.
In other words, GT-R's chief engineer has confirmed that the much publicized 7:29 is a dream for a stock GT-R. I have nothing against Nissan, and in fact companies are known to "optimize" their cars for better ring times, but to claim 20 seconds from the truth is to cross the line into cheating. It's a shameful act on Nissan's part; they should have known someone is going to expose them.
That such a heavy (near 4000 lbs!) and ugly car, with specific warranty policy prohibiting racing (!), from an average car company, is now listed near the top of the famed Nurburgring's time list is sad indeed. Unfortunately it will never go away and will remain a permanent blemish that I'll have to put up with every time I look at this list. http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073
In other words, GT-R's chief engineer has confirmed that the much publicized 7:29 is a dream for a stock GT-R. I have nothing against Nissan, and in fact companies are known to "optimize" their cars for better ring times, but to claim 20 seconds from the truth is to cross the line into cheating. It's a shameful act on Nissan's part; they should have known someone is going to expose them.
That such a heavy (near 4000 lbs!) and ugly car, with specific warranty policy prohibiting racing (!), from an average car company, is now listed near the top of the famed Nurburgring's time list is sad indeed. Unfortunately it will never go away and will remain a permanent blemish that I'll have to put up with every time I look at this list. http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073
Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring times
wow! very interesting eh?
Just wondering - Where's the disconnect between Chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno & Nissan? What I mean is - If Nissan said the car does 7:2_ what's the explaination for Mizuno's quote saying it's a 7:5_ car? Is there any explaination on why Nissan said it does X but their chief engineer saying it really does Y? 7:20's vs 7:50's quite a difference.
Just wondering - Where's the disconnect between Chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno & Nissan? What I mean is - If Nissan said the car does 7:2_ what's the explaination for Mizuno's quote saying it's a 7:5_ car? Is there any explaination on why Nissan said it does X but their chief engineer saying it really does Y? 7:20's vs 7:50's quite a difference.
Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring times
Quote:
STRADALE said:
wow! very interesting eh?
Just wondering - Where's the disconnect between Chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno & Nissan? What I mean is - If Nissan said the car does 7:2_ what's the explaination for Mizuno's quote saying it's a 7:5_ car? Is there any explaination on why Nissan said it does X but their chief engineer saying it really does Y? 7:20's vs 7:50's quite a difference.
There's a German proverb which could be roughly translated as: "Why should I worry today about the dumb things I said yesterday".
Maybe there's a similar Japanese proverb and Nissan is "quietly" dissociating itself from the earlier claims. The journalist who wrote the piece linked to above may have known enough about the importance of "saving face" not to have brought up the subject of the times claimed earlier. He could hardly have been completely ignorant of them.
Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=57410&vf=12
Nissan say: We didn't cheat with GT-R 'Ring time
Nissan defends legitimacy of GT-R supercar's record lap time against suspicions raised by rival Porsche. By ANDREW HEASLEY in Paris.
Nissan has hit back at suspicions raised by Porsche this week that the record Nurburgring lap time set by the GT-R supercar was achieved in anything other than a standard showroom-specification car.
The matter has reached top brass at Nissan, with its European spokesman at the Paris motor show today confirming the matter has gone ''quite high'' up in the company.
A senior Porsche engineer, August Achleitner, who supervises the development of all 911 sports cars, sparked controversy when he told Australian journalists at the launch of the new 911 Targa in Verona, Italy, this week that they were unable to replicate the record 7 minute 29 second lap time that Nissan claimed the GT-R set in April.
In the hands of a Porsche chassis engineer, the GT-R was 20 seconds slower than a 911 GT2 and 16 seconds slower than a Porsche 911 Turbo.
Achleitner questioned whether the GT-R was running a standard set-up on road tyres or perhaps something more track-oriented.
"Quite simply we're not going to get into a war of words with Porsche," said Nissan's European spokesman Neil Reeve. "The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tyres which are available to customers in the showroom.They're not trick tyres - absolutely standard tyres, normal road tyres.
"The GT-R comes with Bridgestone and Goodyear (Dunlop). One tyre gives slightly better times around the 'Ring.
"We did it on Dunlop. They're available with the car," he said.
He was at a loss to explain the disparity over the lap time differences.
"I don't know, honestly I can't explain. I don't think it's for us to explain how they didn't match our time," Mr Reeve said.
"We absolutely maintain (that) Tochio Suzuki - the chief test driver on the GT-R program pounded thousands of laps - he got to know every inch of Nurburgring (circuit) and how the car performs on the Nurburgring and hence set that fabulous lap. More than that, I can't speculate. I can't explain why they couldn't match the time."
"We maintain that ... nothing special was done to the car."
He conceded that the controversy might play on the minds of potential GT-R buyers. Fast lap times of the famous 21-kilometre German circuit are increasingy being used by car companies for bragging rights over performance and engineering prowess.
"The people who'd buy a GT-R or 911 Turbo are not the type of people to make a purchase like that lightly. They going to do an incredible amount of research, they're going to read every single road test that's available in every magazine which is on the internet and they're going to draw their own conclusion. Will it put doubt in their mind? They might find it surprising. In our experience in Europe, the GT-R has widely matched, at least, if not beaten, the 911 Turbo on various track tests. They can draw their own conclusions.
"We think its performance speaks for itself,'' he said.
Reeve wouldn't rule out the possibility of a rematch for the world to see.
"We're considering our options. We're not saying more than that," he said.
"This (Porsche's questioning of Nissan's claim) happened two days ago, it was a surprising thing to read in the press, it's important.
"But let's not blow it out of all proportion. We're not crying about it. We're not going to sook about it.
"I'm cheeky enough to say it's flattering that Porsche have bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany, they want to try it. I guess that's some kind of stamp of approval.
"It's great to have the competition. We're absolutely proud of the GT-R. It's a fabulous sports car, really epic.
"The level of performance that it delivers is really so impressive for the price it's positioned at," he said.
Nissan say: We didn't cheat with GT-R 'Ring time
Nissan defends legitimacy of GT-R supercar's record lap time against suspicions raised by rival Porsche. By ANDREW HEASLEY in Paris.
Nissan has hit back at suspicions raised by Porsche this week that the record Nurburgring lap time set by the GT-R supercar was achieved in anything other than a standard showroom-specification car.
The matter has reached top brass at Nissan, with its European spokesman at the Paris motor show today confirming the matter has gone ''quite high'' up in the company.
A senior Porsche engineer, August Achleitner, who supervises the development of all 911 sports cars, sparked controversy when he told Australian journalists at the launch of the new 911 Targa in Verona, Italy, this week that they were unable to replicate the record 7 minute 29 second lap time that Nissan claimed the GT-R set in April.
In the hands of a Porsche chassis engineer, the GT-R was 20 seconds slower than a 911 GT2 and 16 seconds slower than a Porsche 911 Turbo.
Achleitner questioned whether the GT-R was running a standard set-up on road tyres or perhaps something more track-oriented.
"Quite simply we're not going to get into a war of words with Porsche," said Nissan's European spokesman Neil Reeve. "The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tyres which are available to customers in the showroom.They're not trick tyres - absolutely standard tyres, normal road tyres.
"The GT-R comes with Bridgestone and Goodyear (Dunlop). One tyre gives slightly better times around the 'Ring.
"We did it on Dunlop. They're available with the car," he said.
He was at a loss to explain the disparity over the lap time differences.
"I don't know, honestly I can't explain. I don't think it's for us to explain how they didn't match our time," Mr Reeve said.
"We absolutely maintain (that) Tochio Suzuki - the chief test driver on the GT-R program pounded thousands of laps - he got to know every inch of Nurburgring (circuit) and how the car performs on the Nurburgring and hence set that fabulous lap. More than that, I can't speculate. I can't explain why they couldn't match the time."
"We maintain that ... nothing special was done to the car."
He conceded that the controversy might play on the minds of potential GT-R buyers. Fast lap times of the famous 21-kilometre German circuit are increasingy being used by car companies for bragging rights over performance and engineering prowess.
"The people who'd buy a GT-R or 911 Turbo are not the type of people to make a purchase like that lightly. They going to do an incredible amount of research, they're going to read every single road test that's available in every magazine which is on the internet and they're going to draw their own conclusion. Will it put doubt in their mind? They might find it surprising. In our experience in Europe, the GT-R has widely matched, at least, if not beaten, the 911 Turbo on various track tests. They can draw their own conclusions.
"We think its performance speaks for itself,'' he said.
Reeve wouldn't rule out the possibility of a rematch for the world to see.
"We're considering our options. We're not saying more than that," he said.
"This (Porsche's questioning of Nissan's claim) happened two days ago, it was a surprising thing to read in the press, it's important.
"But let's not blow it out of all proportion. We're not crying about it. We're not going to sook about it.
"I'm cheeky enough to say it's flattering that Porsche have bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany, they want to try it. I guess that's some kind of stamp of approval.
"It's great to have the competition. We're absolutely proud of the GT-R. It's a fabulous sports car, really epic.
"The level of performance that it delivers is really so impressive for the price it's positioned at," he said.
Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time
Quote:
AUM said:
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=57410&vf=12
Nissan say: We didn't cheat with GT-R 'Ring time
Nissan defends legitimacy of GT-R supercar's record lap time against suspicions raised by rival Porsche. By ANDREW HEASLEY in Paris.
Nissan has hit back at suspicions raised by Porsche this week that the record Nurburgring lap time set by the GT-R supercar was achieved in anything other than a standard showroom-specification car.
The matter has reached top brass at Nissan, with its European spokesman at the Paris motor show today confirming the matter has gone ''quite high'' up in the company.
A senior Porsche engineer, August Achleitner, who supervises the development of all 911 sports cars, sparked controversy when he told Australian journalists at the launch of the new 911 Targa in Verona, Italy, this week that they were unable to replicate the record 7 minute 29 second lap time that Nissan claimed the GT-R set in April.
In the hands of a Porsche chassis engineer, the GT-R was 20 seconds slower than a 911 GT2 and 16 seconds slower than a Porsche 911 Turbo.
Achleitner questioned whether the GT-R was running a standard set-up on road tyres or perhaps something more track-oriented.
"Quite simply we're not going to get into a war of words with Porsche," said Nissan's European spokesman Neil Reeve. "The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tyres which are available to customers in the showroom.They're not trick tyres - absolutely standard tyres, normal road tyres.
"The GT-R comes with Bridgestone and Goodyear (Dunlop). One tyre gives slightly better times around the 'Ring.
"We did it on Dunlop. They're available with the car," he said.
He was at a loss to explain the disparity over the lap time differences.
"I don't know, honestly I can't explain. I don't think it's for us to explain how they didn't match our time," Mr Reeve said.
"We absolutely maintain (that) Tochio Suzuki - the chief test driver on the GT-R program pounded thousands of laps - he got to know every inch of Nurburgring (circuit) and how the car performs on the Nurburgring and hence set that fabulous lap. More than that, I can't speculate. I can't explain why they couldn't match the time."
"We maintain that ... nothing special was done to the car."
He conceded that the controversy might play on the minds of potential GT-R buyers. Fast lap times of the famous 21-kilometre German circuit are increasingy being used by car companies for bragging rights over performance and engineering prowess.
"The people who'd buy a GT-R or 911 Turbo are not the type of people to make a purchase like that lightly. They going to do an incredible amount of research, they're going to read every single road test that's available in every magazine which is on the internet and they're going to draw their own conclusion. Will it put doubt in their mind? They might find it surprising. In our experience in Europe, the GT-R has widely matched, at least, if not beaten, the 911 Turbo on various track tests. They can draw their own conclusions.
"We think its performance speaks for itself,'' he said.
Reeve wouldn't rule out the possibility of a rematch for the world to see.
"We're considering our options. We're not saying more than that," he said.
"This (Porsche's questioning of Nissan's claim) happened two days ago, it was a surprising thing to read in the press, it's important.
"But let's not blow it out of all proportion. We're not crying about it. We're not going to sook about it.
"I'm cheeky enough to say it's flattering that Porsche have bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany, they want to try it. I guess that's some kind of stamp of approval.
"It's great to have the competition. We're absolutely proud of the GT-R. It's a fabulous sports car, really epic.
"The level of performance that it delivers is really so impressive for the price it's positioned at," he said.
what did you expect them to say?
Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time
I think the farcical thing here is the "VDC off" restriction.. This is like Porsche saying that your warranty is void if you take PSM off.
Also LC need that VDC off to get 0-100 times below 4.1secs (according to GTR owners). This smells foul from a thousand miles away..
Also LC need that VDC off to get 0-100 times below 4.1secs (according to GTR owners). This smells foul from a thousand miles away..
Oct 6, 2008 4:26:11 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Oct 6, 2008 4:32:19 PM
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MKSGR
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Oct 6, 2008 8:00:30 PM
- JoeRockhead
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Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time
Quote:
BiTurbo said:Quote:
cannga said:
Terms of warranty for US GT-R owners. "Racing" voids the warranty.
GTR stands for Gran Turismo Racing, but you're not allowed to race in it, then what exactly is this car ? a beefed up Infiniti G35 with 4WD ?
Well, in fact, yes it is
. It's based on the G35 I believe (or some other basic model).
Oct 7, 2008 3:02:11 AM
- 184692
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Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
BiTurbo said:Quote:
cannga said:
Terms of warranty for US GT-R owners. "Racing" voids the warranty.
GTR stands for Gran Turismo Racing, but you're not allowed to race in it, then what exactly is this car ? a beefed up Infiniti G35 with 4WD ?
Well, in fact, yes it is
Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time
Isn't it irrelevant ? The NIssan has beaten the 997tt on every track that every magazine has tested it on,I think Porsche are actually embarrassing themselves with this.Every road test has preferred the gtr to the 997tt,surely Porsche should be addressing this issue by improving the 997tt and not sulking about it.
Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time
Quote:
franki68 said:
Isn't it irrelevant ? The NIssan has beaten the 997tt on every track that every magazine has tested it on,I think Porsche are actually embarrassing themselves with this.Every road test has preferred the gtr to the 997tt,surely Porsche should be addressing this issue by improving the 997tt and not sulking about it.
Porsche ? embarrassing ? No kidding
Starting from 2009
Oct 7, 2008 1:37:49 PM
- JoeRockhead
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Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time
Quote:
184692 said:Quote:
JoeRockhead said:Quote:
eclou said:
what did you expect them to say?
+1
Really... Like a little kid who throws a ball through a window. Deny, deny, deny.
Porsche would do the same.
Porsche wouldn't have done something that stupid in the first place.
Re: Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating N-Ring time
Quote:
franki68 said:
Isn't it irrelevant ? The NIssan has beaten the 997tt on every track that every magazine has tested it on,I think Porsche are actually embarrassing themselves with this.Every road test has preferred the gtr to the 997tt,surely Porsche should be addressing this issue by improving the 997tt and not sulking about it.
This is an inconvenient truth that some people prefer to ignore: The GTR laps faster than the Turbo in all independent tests.
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