Sep 30, 2008 8:59:01 AM

MKSGR M
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Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating

Porsche has now officially confirmed our concerns about Nissan's *claimed* GTR lap times:

carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/


Sep 30, 2008 9:29:54 AM

TB993tt
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TB993tt
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Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

It is what you and others said all along..... you were right

Sep 30, 2008 10:26:08 AM

Dr. Phil Offline
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Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Stupid of Nissan to lie about this. They may have gotten a lot of PR on the story, but now it will only bite them in the ass.

Sep 30, 2008 10:28:09 AM

reginos
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reginos
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Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Don't know what to believe anymore!

Sep 30, 2008 10:46:16 AM

Emperor
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Reply to: reginos

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

This is why I never have get caugh into pre-market launch lap times mentioned by American or Japanese manufacturers. It's pure marketing hype.

I'm smelling a cat fight coming up between Nissan and Porsche. Nissan's PR team are gonna be busy clearing this bursted air bubble.

Sep 30, 2008 11:10:57 AM

Walter
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Reply to: Emperor

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

I don't want to make a new GT-R thread for the following video but keep in mind that Steve Sutcliff (spelling?) wrote an article about how he was sure that Nissan cheated and now he's forced to admit that a GT-R with the 180kph limiter can keep up with a LP560 but maybe a nice set of runflats would improve things for the Lambo?

Video

And didn't our beloved HvS clock a 7:50 with the GT-R on a partially wet track? Oh yes he did

But wait a minute...did I just read that the Turbo is only 4 seconds slower than the GT2? GT2 owners will be happy to hear that

Sep 30, 2008 11:52:00 AM

AUM
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Reply to: Walter

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Porsche claim 7.38 for the Turbo and 7.54 for the GTR but in all independent tests the GTR laps faster than the Turbo. I prefer the evidence of independent tests to manufacturer claims.

Sep 30, 2008 11:58:27 AM

KresoF1
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KresoF1
Loc: Croatia , Croatia
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Reply to: Walter

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
Walter said:
I don't want to make a new GT-R thread for the following video but keep in mind that Steve Sutcliff (spelling?) wrote an article about how he was sure that Nissan cheated and now he's forced to admit that a GT-R with the 180kph limiter can keep up with a LP560 but maybe a nice set of runflats would improve things for the Lambo?

Video

And didn't our beloved HvS clock a 7:50 with the GT-R on a partially wet track? Oh yes he did

But wait a minute...did I just read that the Turbo is only 4 seconds slower than the GT2? GT2 owners will be happy to hear that



Actually HvS drove 7.50,80min lap in Suzuki's test mule, NOT in production version of GT-R.

BTW, final EU specs for GT-R are not ready yet(C02 emission for example)...

Sep 30, 2008 12:08:12 PM

Italo
Senior
Italo
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Reply to: AUM

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
AUM said:
Porsche claim 7.38 for the Turbo and 7.54 for the GTR but in all independent tests the GTR laps faster than the Turbo. I prefer the evidence of independent tests to manufacturer claims.



I'd rather believe the manufacturers Porsche won't take the chance of getting sued by Nissan if they haven't got their facts right. I always knoew that there was something dodgy about those times, even the press cars are not standard Has anyone dynoed a GT-R

Sep 30, 2008 12:13:48 PM

Carlos from Spain M
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Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Actually HvS drove 7.50,80min lap in Suzuki's test mule, NOT in production version of GT-R.

BTW, final EU specs for GT-R are not ready yet(C02 emission for example)...



Very good clarification. Some people must be feeling pretty naive right now

CAN'T WAIT FOR THE SA SUPERTEST! though I have a feeling we won't be seeing a EU-spec in the hands of Saurma any time soon for obviuos reasons...

Sep 30, 2008 12:22:48 PM

MKSGR M
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Reply to: Carlos from Spain M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Actually HvS drove 7.50,80min lap in Suzuki's test mule, NOT in production version of GT-R.

BTW, final EU specs for GT-R are not ready yet(C02 emission for example)...



Very good clarification. Some people must be feeling pretty naive right now




Absolutely

I am always speachless when I read how easily some people can be "convinced" of super-natural capabilities of a car which does not even exist yet (at least for German customers ). Sportauto will do the rest. The GTR hype will then be over

Sep 30, 2008 12:38:21 PM

Joost
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Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

So, now the wait is for a declaration by Nissan that they bought a GT2 and a turbo and couldn't lap the 'Ring as fast as Röhrl could?
-Joost-

Sep 30, 2008 12:38:48 PM

Walter
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Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Actually HvS drove 7.50,80min lap in Suzuki's test mule, NOT in production version of GT-R.

BTW, final EU specs for GT-R are not ready yet(C02 emission for example)...



Ok so it was a preproducton car that (for some reason) was much faster than the production cars. So let's forget that and focus on the production models that were tested by independant magazines.

In 90% of the tests the GT-R did very well and sometimes it was much faster than expected.

Sep 30, 2008 12:58:25 PM

Walter
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Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Very good clarification. Some people must be feeling pretty naive right now




Absolutely

I am always speachless when I read how easily some people can be "convinced" of super-natural capabilities of a car which does not even exist yet (at least for German customers ). Sportauto will do the rest. The GTR hype will then be over



Who's naive?

Sep 30, 2008 1:05:53 PM

Carlos from Spain M
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Carlos from Spain
Loc: Spain. , Spain
Posts: 7858, Gallery
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Reply to: Walter

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
Walter said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Very good clarification. Some people must be feeling pretty naive right now




Absolutely

I am always speachless when I read how easily some people can be "convinced" of super-natural capabilities of a car which does not even exist yet (at least for German customers ). Sportauto will do the rest. The GTR hype will then be over



Who's naive?



Anyone who believed a 480HP car with 1800kg weight could lap the ring in CGT/Pagani/Enzo lap times on street tires.

Sep 30, 2008 1:06:53 PM

Carlos from Spain M
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Carlos from Spain
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Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
MKSGR said: Sportauto will do the rest. The GTR hype will then be over



x2! thats why I'm afraid Saurma won't get the opportunity to get a Euro-spec stock GT-R to do the Supertest anytime soon

Sep 30, 2008 1:13:49 PM

MKSGR M
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MKSGR
Loc: Germany , Germany
Posts: 4284, Gallery
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Reply to: Joost

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
Joost said:
So, now the wait is for a declaration by Nissan that they bought a GT2 and a turbo and couldn't lap the 'Ring as fast as Röhrl could?
-Joost-



There is a big difference... You can just look up the Sportauto Supertest of the GT2 to verify the Porsche claimed figure. In contrast, the GTR figure is only published by Nissan...

Sep 30, 2008 1:14:46 PM

Grant S.
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Reply to: Walter

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

This is great news for people to read. I was so sick of hearing about "Godzilla." I think this is great what Porsche has done. I know that the GT-R is still a fast car, I don't like it but I did respect it until now, now I've lost all respect for the GT-R and Nissan, and I'm sure others will feel the same way.

Sep 30, 2008 1:32:17 PM

Walter
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Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
MKSGR said:
There is a big difference... You can just look up the Sportauto Supertest of the GT2 to verify the Porsche claimed figure. In contrast, the GTR figure is only published by Nissan...



And we can also have a look at the Supertest of the 997 Turbo and oh wait...don't do that.

Sep 30, 2008 1:37:47 PM

KresoF1
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KresoF1
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Reply to: Walter

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

I do not want to defend 997 Turbo since that car is IMHO underperformer on the track.

Just... Recent Motor Trend track comparison test on Laguna Seca... GT-R was just marginally(0.4s) faster then Audi R8... On Vairano Alain Prost was much, much faster in Lp560-4, Scuderia and GT2 then in GT-R...

If we look at recent car press there is no doubt at all-UK press is strongest advocats of GT-R.

Sep 30, 2008 1:38:17 PM

95jersey
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95jersey
Loc: US
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Registered on: Feb 20, 2006
Reply to: Walter

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

The GTR finally showed up at a amatuer NASA race in TTS preppared. The car had Hoosier A6 race tires, which are the stickiest R compounds available on the market (so no arguments about tire grip). Here is how it placed. Not only couldn't pass a Z06, but couldn't beat a preppared C5 generation Corvette. The driver was a very experienced instructor for NASA, so no driver issues as well.

TTS Last session
1 222 Geffrey Sawtelle 1:33.096 Chevrolet Corvette 2003
2 2 Jared McGillicuddy 1:33.274 Chevrolet Corvette 2002
3 730 Bobby Fischer 1:36.391 Cadillac CTS-V 2005
4 121 William Taylor 1:36.871 Nissan GT-R 2009
5 86 Tim Dorsch 1:41.524 Ford Mustang 1986

Sep 30, 2008 1:42:00 PM

95jersey
Senior
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Reply to: 95jersey

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Pics

Sep 30, 2008 2:11:54 PM

MKSGR M
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MKSGR
Loc: Germany , Germany
Posts: 4284, Gallery
Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
Reply to: Walter

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
Walter said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
There is a big difference... You can just look up the Sportauto Supertest of the GT2 to verify the Porsche claimed figure. In contrast, the GTR figure is only published by Nissan...



And we can also have a look at the Supertest of the 997 Turbo and oh wait...don't do that.



Maybe you should do some research before posting stuff like the above: you will soon discover what Rennteam did write about the 997TT before it was launched, soon after it was launched, after the Supertest came out etc. We have a very clear view and a lot of experience here. The fact is that it is hard to find a single case in which the Rennteam perspective was proven wrong later on... We don't fall for BS

And having stated tha I would like to reiterate (maybe the for the 100th time)t: the GTR is the biggest cheat of the year.

Sep 30, 2008 2:17:46 PM

Walter
Pilot
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Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Maybe you should do some research before posting stuff like the above: you will soon discover what Rennteam did write about the 997TT before it was launched, soon after it was launched, after the Supertest came out etc. We have a very clear view and a lot of experience here. The fact is that it is hard to find a single case in which the Rennteam perspective was proven wrong later on... We don't fall for BS

And having stated tha I would like to reiterate (maybe the for the 100th time)t: the GTR is the biggest cheat of the year.



Great. What does have to do with my post?

Sep 30, 2008 2:20:49 PM

Walter
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Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
I do not want to defend 997 Turbo since that car is IMHO underperformer on the track.

Just... Recent Motor Trend track comparison test on Laguna Seca... GT-R was just marginally(0.4s) faster then Audi R8... On Vairano Alain Prost was much, much faster in Lp560-4, Scuderia and GT2 then in GT-R...

If we look at recent car press there is no doubt at all-UK press is strongest advocats of GT-R.



And the R8 was also 1.6 seconds faster than the 997 Turbo.

Now,if the R8 was Japanese or American I'm pretty sure that some people would say that it was a ringer and that we should wait for the Supertest

Sep 30, 2008 2:30:08 PM

MKSGR M
Rennteam Moderator
MKSGR
Loc: Germany , Germany
Posts: 4284, Gallery
Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
Reply to: Walter

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
Walter said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Maybe you should do some research before posting stuff like the above: you will soon discover what Rennteam did write about the 997TT before it was launched, soon after it was launched, after the Supertest came out etc. We have a very clear view and a lot of experience here. The fact is that it is hard to find a single case in which the Rennteam perspective was proven wrong later on... We don't fall for BS

And having stated tha I would like to reiterate (maybe the for the 100th time)t: the GTR is the biggest cheat of the year.



Great. What does have to do with my post?



The problem with your post is: you seem to put the claimed Nissan numbers in a different perspective by referring to claimed and tested Porsche lap times of the 997TT.

Sep 30, 2008 2:44:41 PM

devo
Veteran
devo
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Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

I whole heartedly agree with what Porsche has done. Anyone with an ounce of common sense should be skeptical of Nissan's claims. I do however, appreciate the GTR for what it is.

As much as I appreciate these track tests, let's face it, the majority will never take their cars to the track. On the street, where these cars are really tested, in an in-gear, rolling start, the 997tt will walk away from a GTR. I wonder why it is that we don't see more of these tests!?

Sep 30, 2008 2:56:49 PM

Walter
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Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
MKSGR said:
The problem with your post is: you seem to put the claimed Nissan numbers in a different perspective by referring to claimed and tested Porsche lap times of the 997TT.



No, I was putting the GT2 lap times in a different perspectve with the Turbo lap times.

Sep 30, 2008 3:23:00 PM

MKSGR M
Rennteam Moderator
MKSGR
Loc: Germany , Germany
Posts: 4284, Gallery
Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
Reply to: Walter

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

Quote:
Walter said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
The problem with your post is: you seem to put the claimed Nissan numbers in a different perspective by referring to claimed and tested Porsche lap times of the 997TT.



No, I was putting the GT2 lap times in a different perspectve with the Turbo lap times.



Please explain. The GT2 NBR time has been verified by Sportauto. There is no doubt about the NBR time of the GT2...

Sep 30, 2008 3:36:07 PM

skazzy
Senior
skazzy
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Registered on: Oct 31, 2005
Reply to: MKSGR M

Re: Porsche accueses Nissan of cheating

What about all the other tests done by dozens of other motoring publications where the GTR still proved be faster around the track then the 911TT? Are those also false?
 
 
 
 
 
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