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    Sep 25, 2008 2:29:40 PM

    TB993tt
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    TB993tt
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    997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    As far as I know RS Tuning are the only company with a dedicated Porsche turbo engine dyno with the correct cooling to be able to replicate Porsche's own engine dynos.

    There are many graphs for the various models on the Cargraphic website and the graphs for the tuning kits always include a baseline power and torque measurement.

    All of the base runs are virtually spot on with Porsche's own measurements to within a couple of PS - All except the 997GT2 where the maximum torque measured is only 621NM - I have drawn in (badly) the factory curve for comparison. Interestingly the engine makes exactly its full power at 6500rpm but something is amiss lower down. The 997tt torque curve without sport chrono is spot on as are all the others so something is definately up with the GT2 they measured.... I will investigate further...

    Sep 25, 2008 3:00:23 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: TB993tt

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    With a turbo motor, the low-rev torque is highly dependent upon the load the motor sees. Without enough load, the motor revs too easily and doesn't spin the turbochargers enough.

    Porsche most likely provides more braking (or other resistance) on the flywheel of the motor than RS Tuning.

    BTW, I think Jerry Woods Enterprises in California also has an engine dyno capable of dealing with very powerful motors. They had a monstrous turbo motor on their engine dyno when I was there picking up my car with the motor they rebuilt for me. They had just finished building a 935 race motor and had a Le Mans veteran GT1 in there too...

    Sep 25, 2008 3:03:27 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: TB993tt

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    Interesting - that's the torque curve from a Turbo in 'normal' mode without overboost.

    What does the solid blue line indicate? A sports exhaust?

    Sep 25, 2008 3:41:29 PM

    TB993tt
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    TB993tt
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    The point is RS definately DO know how to load turbo motors like Porsche do - they pride themselves on this fact and have had their creations tested by Porsche on their engine dyno giving identical results.

    Alex the actual 997tt torque curve which RS tested is on www.cargraphic.com under performance, power kits - you can see the 997tt torque curve is different to the GT2 one (which it would be)
    Yes the other curve is with the exhaust - nice gains !

    Sep 25, 2008 3:47:03 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    Quote:
    Alex_997TT said:
    Interesting - that's the torque curve from a Turbo in 'normal' mode without overboost.



    That's right. Someone's comparing an apple and a pear - and threw in a lemon just to confuse the issue.

    Sep 25, 2008 3:58:46 PM

    TB993tt
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    TB993tt
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    Reply to: TB993tt

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    Here is the stock 997tt curve - different scale but quite different from the GT2 although curiously same peak NM

    Sep 25, 2008 7:51:22 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: TB993tt

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    Interesting thread. Question for the experts: The stock Turbo doesn't "take off" until 3000 rpm. Yet, the torque curve as supplied by Porsche shows peak torque much earlier, around 2200. Why are these 2 numbers not correlating? Another example of marketing hype?

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    Here is the stock 997tt curve - different scale but quite different from the GT2 although curiously same peak NM

    Sep 25, 2008 8:01:16 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    Quote:
    cannga said:
    Interesting thread. Question for the experts: The stock Turbo doesn't "take off" until 3000 rpm. Yet, the torque curve as supplied by Porsche shows peak torque much earlier, around 2200. Why are these 2 numbers not correlating? Another example of marketing hype?


    With Turbo motors, you can make a much more impressive curve than anyone would realize under real-world driving conditions by adjusting the load on the motor. That has certainly been the case with all modern turbo cars. Do you really think a BMW 3.0TT makes 100% of its torque by 1,300rpm in the real world? Hell no...

    The only way to try to simulate those torque curves in the real world would be to drive the car with 4 passengers up a steep hill at slow speed in 6th gear. Now who would drive like that?

    The car actually drives much better in 1st gear in that circumstance, but it doesn't stress the motor enough to build enough exhaust pressure to spin the turbines to make full boost at such a low rpm. In 1st gear, the motor doesn't stay at such a low rpm long enough for that.

    To make a pretty torque curve, you have to badly handicap acceleration performance (the exact opposite thing the pretty torque curve would imply).

    Yes, it's marketing hype on the part of Porsche and everyone else with a turbo motor for sale today...

    Sep 30, 2008 1:42:28 PM

    TB993tt
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    OK, as we suspected this is a mistake on behalf of Cragraphic, looks like they got their scaling wrong.

    The stock engines which have been tested on the engine dyno gave 535, 539 and 529 PS with torque between 670 and 685NM so all spot on factory quotes....

    Sep 30, 2008 2:57:08 PM

    Italo
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    Reply to: TB993tt

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    Quote:
    TB993tt said:
    OK, as we suspected this is a mistake on behalf of Cragraphic, looks like they got their scaling wrong.

    The stock engines which have been tested on the engine dyno gave 535, 539 and 529 PS with torque between 670 and 685NM so all spot on factory quotes....



    at least you raised your hand and admitted that were wrong

    Sep 30, 2008 4:13:21 PM

    TB993tt
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    TB993tt
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    Reply to: Italo

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    Quote:
    Italo said:

    at least you raised your hand and admitted that were wrong



    In English

    Oct 1, 2008 7:20:45 PM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: TB993tt

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    Well and sportec has told me repeateadly that they've measured 7-8 stock gt2s and they all made much more power than quoted; 560+hp. One car actually made 585hp on their dyno.. They obviously vouch for the accuracy of their dyno but regardless they think that the factory quoted numbers are conservative.
    Mind you, their dyno is not 4wd so should be pretty accurate for the gt2. So I think you're safe Alex! You'll love it!. Apparently you can get to 650hp very easily; 200cell cats and ecu and you're almost there!

    Oct 5, 2008 1:31:31 PM

    TB993tt
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    TB993tt
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: 997 GT2 Doesn't make factory output ?

    Well, didn't take them long to sort it out - they are now displaying the correct torque curves on the Cargraphic web site although the series engine seems to make more torque at the red line
     
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