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Sep 18, 2008 5:08:28 AM
- Grant
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Re: porsche ceramic brakes
red brakes are enough for normal road use. they are amongst the best breaks by far.
i have reds on my turbo and yellow on my GT2. yellow feel stiffer and require more pressure than the red brakes. however, they do grip firmer than the red ones.
spare the cost and go for red's if you can find a suitable car.
i have reds on my turbo and yellow on my GT2. yellow feel stiffer and require more pressure than the red brakes. however, they do grip firmer than the red ones.
spare the cost and go for red's if you can find a suitable car.
Re: porsche ceramic brakes
IMO, as a public road driver, the only reason I'd consider PCCBs if it brake dust bugs you. HOWEVER: because of their paint scheme and design the Turbo wheels are totally amazing at _hiding_ brake dust. Porsche deserves an award for excellence here: not kidding.
I had a 997S with Carrera classics and a few days after washing the dirty accumulation would start bugging me; I'd try to give them a quick wipe before going anywhere. With Turbo wheels: it's there but you can't see it: problem solved!
OTOH, They're verrry nice brakes, get them if the money is fun to spend: it's _your_ Porsche: might as well indulge yourself. Think of how you spend the other monies you have.
I had a 997S with Carrera classics and a few days after washing the dirty accumulation would start bugging me; I'd try to give them a quick wipe before going anywhere. With Turbo wheels: it's there but you can't see it: problem solved!
OTOH, They're verrry nice brakes, get them if the money is fun to spend: it's _your_ Porsche: might as well indulge yourself. Think of how you spend the other monies you have.
Sep 18, 2008 1:08:45 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: porsche ceramic brakes
The other benefit of PCCBs for road use only is that their longevity is enormous - they will pay for themselves over time (compared to the exorbitant cost of regular replacement of front & rear pads and discs - if one has 'red' brakes). This benefit will make itself known to those who hold onto a well-specc'd car for the longer term 
Sep 18, 2008 1:31:46 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: porsche ceramic brakes
I would NEVER buy another Porsche without PCCB now. One of the very best things about my current car (and there are a LOT of good things on that list now!).
I never go to the track so all this "public roads you should get read steels" has nothing to do with it in my eyes.
RC is another one who has said many times that he would not go back to steel after having ceramics.
I never go to the track so all this "public roads you should get read steels" has nothing to do with it in my eyes.
RC is another one who has said many times that he would not go back to steel after having ceramics.
Sep 18, 2008 1:41:11 PM
- MMD
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Sep 18, 2008 2:22:34 PM
- Uber-porker
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Re: porsche ceramic brakes
If one is interested in asthetics of the vehicle, Porsches of any color usually look much better with the yellow calipers vs. the red. In fact the red sometimes clashes with some popular colors. Instead of red, Porsche should use black. With the advantages of PCCB and the appearance edge, they are the best choice for turbos.
Sep 18, 2008 4:17:55 PM
- cannga
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Re: porsche ceramic brakes
LOL. PCCB brake questions always draw a crowd.
For original poster:
1. Check to find out if this is first gen or second gen. PCCB. If it is first, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. There was reliability problem. I vaguely recall a transition period around 2004 or 2005 (don't know exactly when and which car) where some cars got PCCB gen II. Someone here should know.
2. If you track the car, unless you are ready to spend $$$, I would stay away from PCCB brake, regardless of first or second gen.
3. If you are going to use for the street, and this is second gen. PCCB, then most definitely yes. PCCB II has AFAIK spotless record.
4. Check for crack with a microscope.
I've read that cracks running from hole to hole is an absolute no-no.
Cons of PCCB:
1. No improvement in braking distance. At least for the first few tries. Should improve with repeated brakings because of less fade but I have never seen numbers to prove such.
2. If you are to track, and need "better" brake than the already great Big Red, then the big guns from Brembo is the way to go. Or so I've been told.
3. Despite of what people claim, yes, in the rain, in my experience the first application could feel "funny"; it doesn't seem to bite right away -- a split second delay. This is purely a subjective sensation. Whether this results in longer braking distance, I don't know. I've never seen numbers to prove one way or another when the brake is wet. ABS does kick in in these situations -- if you press real hard in the rain -- so possibly braking distance is same, at least for panic brakes.
4. $$$$$ to replace. But... Porsche claims some big number (100,000 miles?) until replacement with normal usage, and so far this *seems* to be true.
Advantages of PCCB:
I once had a long discussion in a PCCB thread on rennlist's GT3 forum. The person who answered my questions tests brake for living, he is NOT a proponent of PCCB, stating repeatedly something to the effect that after-market big iron like Brembo is a better solution. In the end, I believe he agreed to 2 advantages of PCCB vs. Big Red:
1. Reduced unsprung weight, 35 lbs. 35 lbs. is a significant amount. This provides advantages in handling and acceleration. While it's debatable whether a particular driver could feel the difference, the known advantages of reduced unsprung weight is irrefutable
. This is for MMD, to answer the question of "what does PCCB do on public road driving"; for such a rennteam veteran, I am surprised you haven't heard of this. 
2. The subjective feel of the initial bite.
Other advantages of PCCB:
3. Little known fact: PCCB actually has BIGGER front (rear too? don't have manual w/ me now) rotor than big red. You are paying for both PCCB AND bigger brake.
4. Less fade with repeated braking.
5. Rotor lasts longer in street use. PCCB's reliability record has been impeccable, AFAIK, for the streets.
6. Pretty to some.
7. No brake dust.
I use this rule whenever I have questions about a particular option or mod or which car to upgrade to: Of the people who have owned both, or who have LONG TERM experience with both, does anyone ever revert back? Applying this to PCCB, and for example regular 997 vs. Turbo, and you will find that the answer is overwhelmingly in favor of PCCB (EXCEPT for tracking) and the Turbo.
For original poster:
1. Check to find out if this is first gen or second gen. PCCB. If it is first, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. There was reliability problem. I vaguely recall a transition period around 2004 or 2005 (don't know exactly when and which car) where some cars got PCCB gen II. Someone here should know.
2. If you track the car, unless you are ready to spend $$$, I would stay away from PCCB brake, regardless of first or second gen.
3. If you are going to use for the street, and this is second gen. PCCB, then most definitely yes. PCCB II has AFAIK spotless record.
4. Check for crack with a microscope.
I've read that cracks running from hole to hole is an absolute no-no.
Cons of PCCB:
1. No improvement in braking distance. At least for the first few tries. Should improve with repeated brakings because of less fade but I have never seen numbers to prove such.
2. If you are to track, and need "better" brake than the already great Big Red, then the big guns from Brembo is the way to go. Or so I've been told.
3. Despite of what people claim, yes, in the rain, in my experience the first application could feel "funny"; it doesn't seem to bite right away -- a split second delay. This is purely a subjective sensation. Whether this results in longer braking distance, I don't know. I've never seen numbers to prove one way or another when the brake is wet. ABS does kick in in these situations -- if you press real hard in the rain -- so possibly braking distance is same, at least for panic brakes.
4. $$$$$ to replace. But... Porsche claims some big number (100,000 miles?) until replacement with normal usage, and so far this *seems* to be true.
Advantages of PCCB:
I once had a long discussion in a PCCB thread on rennlist's GT3 forum. The person who answered my questions tests brake for living, he is NOT a proponent of PCCB, stating repeatedly something to the effect that after-market big iron like Brembo is a better solution. In the end, I believe he agreed to 2 advantages of PCCB vs. Big Red:
1. Reduced unsprung weight, 35 lbs. 35 lbs. is a significant amount. This provides advantages in handling and acceleration. While it's debatable whether a particular driver could feel the difference, the known advantages of reduced unsprung weight is irrefutable
. This is for MMD, to answer the question of "what does PCCB do on public road driving"; for such a rennteam veteran, I am surprised you haven't heard of this.
2. The subjective feel of the initial bite.
Other advantages of PCCB:
3. Little known fact: PCCB actually has BIGGER front (rear too? don't have manual w/ me now) rotor than big red. You are paying for both PCCB AND bigger brake.
4. Less fade with repeated braking.
5. Rotor lasts longer in street use. PCCB's reliability record has been impeccable, AFAIK, for the streets.
6. Pretty to some.
7. No brake dust.
I use this rule whenever I have questions about a particular option or mod or which car to upgrade to: Of the people who have owned both, or who have LONG TERM experience with both, does anyone ever revert back? Applying this to PCCB, and for example regular 997 vs. Turbo, and you will find that the answer is overwhelmingly in favor of PCCB (EXCEPT for tracking) and the Turbo.
Re: porsche ceramic brakes
Quote:
MMD said:
But what do PCCBs _do_ on public road driving?
Do they stop shorter if you drive normally (no fade)?
When wet you may have to prepare yourself for a "grip delay," right?
If they offered more _safety_ I'd get them. Do they?
For normal street driving, there is no safety advantage with either PCCB or Iron - they are equally excellent, with a subjectively different pedal feel. Emergency stopping distances are not significantly different. If you can get either braking system to fade on the street, then there is something wrong with the car or you are driving on the Autobahn and repeatedly stopping from 300kph...
Sep 18, 2008 8:45:36 PM
- Grant
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Re: porsche ceramic brakes
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
Very expensive to replace(>$10k), steels are just fine.
From what I've heard the replacement cost is close to double that amount (for all 4)...
I know this first hand as I'm picking mine up tomorrow from the porsche dealer after an independent wheel balance mechanic elected to drop my wheel on the rear passenger side ceramic rotor. Fortunately I was there at the moment to witness it...well aside from my immediate reaction, it was fortunate. $4800.00 plus installation and VAT for one rotor. I suspect they might be a little more careful next time
as they are picking up the tab. You'd be better off chipping a Ming dynasty vase. 
Aside from this PCCB's all the way for me...I love them.
Sep 20, 2008 4:38:00 AM
- Over the Hill
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- Reply to: cannga
Re: porsche ceramic brakes
I spec'd ceramics before ever driving them. At the Porsche Driving School in Birmingham I got to drive both the reds and ceramics. At that time I preferred the feel of the reds, plus they seemed to make it easier to heel and toe. Now that I've driven my own ceramic equipped car for a year, I've gotten used to them to the point I wouldn't consider the reds or their equivalent on any new high performance car I might buy. Now when I drive a non-ceramic braked car the brakes feel like mush even though they may stop just as quick.
Re: porsche ceramic brakes
If squealing brakes drive you nuts, don't get ceramics. They emit a high-pitched screech almost half the time on light braking. Braking hard isn't a problem, and a few serious stomps on the pedal seems to make the squeal go away for a while.
I also had the experience of a delay in braking after driving in the rain.
Still, I don't regret buying them. The initial feel on hitting the pedal is definitely more confidence-inspiring than red brakes. It's nice not to have brake dust, the wheels on my 996 were filthy after an hour's drive.
I also had the experience of a delay in braking after driving in the rain.
Still, I don't regret buying them. The initial feel on hitting the pedal is definitely more confidence-inspiring than red brakes. It's nice not to have brake dust, the wheels on my 996 were filthy after an hour's drive.
Re: porsche ceramic brakes
Quote:
STRADALE said:
Seriously wouldnt ever consider owning another Porsche without PCCB's,
If it's a "cheap" Porsche like a Boxster/Cayman or even a standard 911/S I would go for the standard steel brakes, since they are not bad at all. If you go for a higher model like GT3/turbo only PCCB. I would never buy a Ferrari without them for example, but since they are now standard there you don't even have a choice.
Re: porsche ceramic brakes
Funny..., I wonder how many guys would consider PCCBs if Porsche didn't paint the calipers bright yellow. They are geniuses over there.
From what's been said so far (brake feel, lack of dust, unspring performance public roads etc) I have to add another reason that's EQUALLY important: it's FUN to spend money!!!
:
From what's been said so far (brake feel, lack of dust, unspring performance public roads etc) I have to add another reason that's EQUALLY important: it's FUN to spend money!!!
:
Re: porsche ceramic brakes
Just to add a data point here: My PCCB brake has never squealed. Neither on light, nor heavy braking. I am at 8000 miles. I don't baby the car when I drive, but don't know if that would make a difference.
A while back there was a thread, I believe on rennlist, about brake squeal. IIRC, a number of people had squeal with Big Red. So I am not sure one could conclude ONLY PCCB's squeal, or ALL PCCB's squeal.
It remains a puzzle to me why something that is considered normal doesn't happen all the times. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
MMD, that second line just about sums it up. I have another one: PCCB = an absolutely fantastic luxury that's absolutely unneccessary. (Paraphrase of advice from one of the guys I asked during the planning of my car's order. He has multiple Porsche's, with both brakes, and is actually a PCCB "loyalist"!)
Larry,
The mushy sensation is the "initial bite" advantage that I mentioned. Short term testers may not notice but long term owners will sense the difference almost immediately upon switching to Big Red. I had a similar experience.
A while back there was a thread, I believe on rennlist, about brake squeal. IIRC, a number of people had squeal with Big Red. So I am not sure one could conclude ONLY PCCB's squeal, or ALL PCCB's squeal.
It remains a puzzle to me why something that is considered normal doesn't happen all the times. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
MMD, that second line just about sums it up.
I have another one: PCCB = an absolutely fantastic luxury that's absolutely unneccessary. (Paraphrase of advice from one of the guys I asked during the planning of my car's order. He has multiple Porsche's, with both brakes, and is actually a PCCB "loyalist"!)
Larry,
The mushy sensation is the "initial bite" advantage that I mentioned. Short term testers may not notice but long term owners will sense the difference almost immediately upon switching to Big Red. I had a similar experience.
Quote:
jdbLA said:
If squealing brakes drive you nuts, don't get ceramics. They emit a high-pitched screech almost half the time on light braking. Braking hard isn't a problem, and a few serious stomps on the pedal seems to make the squeal go away for a while.
I also had the experience of a delay in braking after driving in the rain.
Still, I don't regret buying them. The initial feel on hitting the pedal is definitely more confidence-inspiring than red brakes. It's nice not to have brake dust, the wheels on my 996 were filthy after an hour's drive.
Re: porsche ceramic brakes
Quote:
cannga said:
MMD, that second line just about sums it up.
Funny. Yes they ARE nice. On my next P-car I'll probably get them. Many of you guys know well what you're talking about so it's hard to resist.
Why do they have to be yellow?! Geez: the stuupid calipers units are ugly.
Re: porsche ceramic brakes
I love the yellow calipers but I guess I can see why someone may think they're too flashy. It would be cool to have color options like silver or black to add a little individuality. Knowing Porsche I wouldn't be suprised to see them capitalize on another cost option.
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