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Board: Porsche - Panamera
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Aug 29, 2008 2:57:27 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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- Loc: Houston, TX , United States
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Reply to:
Lars997
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
Misha011 said:
Lars997'cocoon' is open and this is a real Panamera with some camo. I am sure that next big surprise is at the rear end
ive been saying the exact same thing, that what we are looking at is a cocoon, a complete body mockup... i sure hope we're right because the current back is UGLY !!
Way too american!
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
YEAH It's Still Ugly. All black with a nuce wax job can make a hyundai look good. It is still too tall, too long, too oddly shaped. And it's not a sedan, it can't be with a hatchback shape.
Lipstick on a pig or ferrari California, another pig with a passable front.
btw good find misha, and i agree with ed, very vette like.
Lipstick on a pig or ferrari California, another pig with a passable front.
btw good find misha, and i agree with ed, very vette like.
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
racerx said:
YEAH It's Still Ugly. All black with a nuce wax job can make a hyundai look good. It is still too tall, too long, too oddly shaped. And it's not a sedan, it can't be with a hatchback shape.
Lipstick on a pig or ferrari California, another pig with a passable front.
Tall? Not, for a 4 seat car.
It is not a hatchback shape. It has a sloping rear with a rear door.
A hatchback shape usually has 3 side windows and/or a more vertical rear, like a wagon/estate car.
In other words the existence of a rear door doesn't classify a car as a hatchback. Many GT and sports cars in history have had a rear door like MGs, Jaguars and Porsches (924,944,928, Cayman).
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
racerx said:
YEAH It's Still Ugly. All black with a nuce wax job can make a hyundai look good. It is still too tall, too long, too oddly shaped. And it's not a sedan, it can't be with a hatchback shape.
Lipstick on a pig or ferrari California, another pig with a passable front.
Tall? Not, for a 4 seat car.
It is not a hatchback shape. It has a sloping rear with a rear door.
A hatchback shape usually has 3 side windows and/or a more vertical rear, like a wagon/estate car.
In other words the existence of a rear door doesn't classify a car as a hatchback. Many GT and sports cars in history have had a rear door like MGs, Jaguars and Porsches (924,944,928, Cayman).
Reginos the hatchback shape refers to LACK of a rear deck, usually the top of the trunk. A sedan comes with a trunk and rear deck. A hatchback comes with a hatcback OK and traditional for 2 door coupes as you point out, not for 4 door sedans.
It's odd and kills the shape.
As to height, what does door quantity have to do with height, look at the Rapide, 4 doors, very low.
I own a 928, which is no secret, it's roofline is 1 inch lower than that of a Vanquish. Yet most people have no great trouble entering or exiting a 928. The rapide designers know this and exploited this for their sleek, beautiful sedan you know, the one passing the panamera on the ring.
It is not impractical or any of the other terms used earlier to describe the Aston. It is exotic and expected in a car for this kind of money from this kind of manufacturer.
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
racerx, think of it, it might be more odd for Porsche to produce a three volume sedan (trunk + rear deck).
The way I see it, Porsche followed a 911-style design(sloping rear) and added a 5th door because many people think that it adds practicality. Some don't like a 5th door but the door doesn't alter the basic design in any way. The design is so, not because of the rear door but because they decided to do a 4 door 911-style car.
As regards the Rapide or whatever else comes in the future, there will be those that like the other cars more and pay for them. Many will find the Panamera superb and vote for it with their money.
In life there is nothing that is universally accepted or liked so we can all have our opinions tastes and buy whatever "rubbish" we consider great!
The way I see it, Porsche followed a 911-style design(sloping rear) and added a 5th door because many people think that it adds practicality. Some don't like a 5th door but the door doesn't alter the basic design in any way. The design is so, not because of the rear door but because they decided to do a 4 door 911-style car.
As regards the Rapide or whatever else comes in the future, there will be those that like the other cars more and pay for them. Many will find the Panamera superb and vote for it with their money.
In life there is nothing that is universally accepted or liked so we can all have our opinions tastes and buy whatever "rubbish" we consider great!
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
Queram said:
This is the rear view of the same car, same shoot I guess. Is it my eyes or all the so called added parts are gone other than the lights. Everything looks so smooth like the front. If this is the final shape, then
If you look closely there is still plenty of disguise. This doesn't mean you are going to like the final design, but definitely this is not it!
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
I certainly agree that the Rapide is an attractive design. But it is definitely not a four passenger sedan, as anyone would testify who has tried to wedge themselves into the useless and miniscule back seat area. The Rapide is certainly not an example of form follows function.
In contrast, the Lexus LS is a fabulous design, with superb room for back seat passengers. But it is luxury sedan, not a sports sedan.
Having said all of this, I am not sure the 911 type rear end will work on the Panamera's larger scale. It somehow reminds me of the American Motors Pacer of the '70s.
In contrast, the Lexus LS is a fabulous design, with superb room for back seat passengers. But it is luxury sedan, not a sports sedan.
Having said all of this, I am not sure the 911 type rear end will work on the Panamera's larger scale. It somehow reminds me of the American Motors Pacer of the '70s.
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
Misha011 said:
Hatch is fake - obviously ( out of alaigment with roof width and slope ).
Looking more at this pic. I am convinced that entire rear end is still fake. Beside hatch , rear bumper too and lights will be positioned lower than what we see now .
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
Misha011 said:
Looking more at this pic. I am convinced that entire rear end is still fake. Beside hatch , rear bumper too and lights will be positioned lower than what we see now .
I think you are hoping for a miracle there. The only camo panels still on this car are the areas marked in red. Google search pics of the 997 or Cayman test mules taken at a similar stage in development (i.e. 6 months to launch) and you'll see that Porsche don't create the level of complete fakery that you are suggesting. It's down to tape and a few bits of minor plastic now for the "disguise". The rear window disguise is covering the adjustable spoiler, side panels cover the curve of the bumper sides and there is a side rubbing strip just to break up light reflection.
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Here is a collection of Cayman shots for a comparison. The bottom right pic of the black car is an early mule with 996 style tail lights and heavy panel cladding. The outline shape is still very familiar to the finished car and only details of the curved panel surfaces were hidden. The blue and silver cars were mules caught testing at the same stage in final shakedown testing that the Panamera is now in. The camo has been drastically reduced and only covers some of the finer surface detailing. Now that we are all familiar with the sight/shape of the Cayman it is easy to recognise it from these two cars. The Panamera will prove to be the same in a few months at the final reveal.
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
ISUK said:
I give up. You are evidently looking at a totally different car to the rest of us
The Panamera will be a fantastic car for those who understand it and appreciate its mixture of practicality, performance and advanced engineering.
People who compare it to the Italian school of cars like the 4porte or with the limited production, cramped show-car-style Rapide, by definition they don't qualify for Panamera ownership.
These cars are totally different propositions for different type of buyers.
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
reginos said:
The Panamera will be a fantastic car for those who understand it and appreciate its mixture of practicality, performance and advanced engineering.
People who compare it to the Italian school of cars like the 4porte or with the limited production, cramped show-car-style Rapide, by definition they don't qualify for Panamera ownership.
These cars are totally different propositions for different type of buyers.
That's a bit over the top don't you think?? Anyone with the cash required to purchase a Panamera will "qualify" for ownership. I think Porsche themselves will very much view the Rapide as a genuine competitor for the Turbo Panamera. As no-one has yet seen the interior dimensions of the production Rapide, which are likely to be improved to those of the initial show car which was built as a market test study only, it's somewhat short sighted to dismiss it as you suggest.
I've followed the Panamera for the last 2 and a half years with great interest and placed a deposit in January '07. I think I "understand" what it's about with all due respect as I placed my money where my mouth is so to speak. Just because many of us are questioning the styling of the car does not make our views any less valid. For the record I never expected it to look like an Italian design. I merely showed the Fisker Karma as a more forward thinking design than the Panamera that is more intune with climate change issues by being lighter and having a greener power train yet still achieving the same criterion by providing space for four occupants. I've already said months ago that the green car photoshop looked like the final car and these latest pics confirm my opinion even more. I don't have a major issue with the external styling though it's not the most elegant design I've ever seen. I'm more disappointed with the design of the interior which looks like a badly executed 80's throwback from the pics seen thus far.
This a good spirited board so I'm sure you didn't mean your comments to come across in the manner that they do. I'm happy that both you and Misha like the car so much and just hope it stays that way at the final reveal
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
Misha011 said:Quote:
ISUK said:
ISUK , the last one , for you
No way that the rear lights will look like this. What we see at the rear is already the final design, rear lights will be a bit bigger, reaching into the fenders and the graphics will be different, similar to those of the 997.2, since the red and white at the mules are only a foil. But that's it.
Re: The Panamera is ugly...
Quote:
ISUK said:Quote:
reginos said:
The Panamera will be a fantastic car for those who understand it and appreciate its mixture of practicality, performance and advanced engineering.
People who compare it to the Italian school of cars like the 4porte or with the limited production, cramped show-car-style Rapide, by definition they don't qualify for Panamera ownership.
These cars are totally different propositions for different type of buyers.
That's a bit over the top don't you think?? Anyone with the cash required to purchase a Panamera will "qualify" for ownership. I think Porsche themselves will very much view the Rapide as a genuine competitor for the Turbo Panamera. As no-one has yet seen the interior dimensions of the production Rapide, which are likely to be improved to those of the initial show car which was built as a market test study only, it's somewhat short sighted to dismiss it as you suggest.
I've followed the Panamera for the last 2 and a half years with great interest and placed a deposit in January '07. I think I "understand" what it's about with all due respect as I placed my money where my mouth is so to speak. Just because many of us are questioning the styling of the car does not make our views any less valid. For the record I never expected it to look like an Italian design. I merely showed the Fisker Karma as a more forward thinking design than the Panamera that is more intune with climate change issues by being lighter and having a greener power train yet still achieving the same criterion by providing space for four occupants. I've already said months ago that the green car photoshop looked like the final car and these latest pics confirm my opinion even more. I don't have a major issue with the external styling though it's not the most elegant design I've ever seen. I'm more disappointed with the design of the interior which looks like a badly executed 80's throwback from the pics seen thus far.
This a good spirited board so I'm sure you didn't mean your comments to come across in the manner that they do. I'm happy that both you and Misha like the car so much and just hope it stays that way at the final reveal
I am sorry that the exact wording of my post didn't come across to you (and maybe others) very well.
What I meant was that people who criticise the Panamera's design especially in comparison to the Rapide and to some Italians and Eurojapanese, don't understand the raison d'etre of this car and therefore it is not suitable for them.
In other words it doesn't meet their requirements and therefore Porsche must look elsewhere for their 20,000 sales per annum.
To use an analogy, someone who finds the Porsche Carrera's styling simple,repetitive and long in the tooth and admires a Maserati GT or an Aston Martin because in his opinion they are sculptures on wheels, this person cannot understand the 911 philosophy and therefore the 911 is not for him.
Who is right and who is wrong? Who can tell when matters of taste and preference are involved?
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