Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - As RC said... - Page1

Nov 5, 2002 9:49:51 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002

Well, I can't help changing my mind...

Dear all,
Nice week end in GB, rainy but that's what you'd expect.

Went down to the new forest, driving a BMW 540i here, not very sporty but great smooth powerful engine

Stopped in Lyndhurst, a tiny village and to my great surprise, I bump in a Ferrari Maserati dealership.
I was with my girlfriend and decided to pop in.
THAT was the little detail that changed everything

I sold my soul!!!
About a dozen 360s parked in a big wharehouse!!!
Like I told Zzoba, this car really is stunning

My girlfriend sat in it and was surprised but the amount of space available, luggage shelf behind the seat, a boot twice as big as the 996 up front! Good, the woman is on my side

(the hardest has been done...)
I figured, I don't use my 996 on a daily basis anyway, it's a pleasure car so a Modena would do, right?
Luigi, I remember reading you bought yours second hand. (BTW, great pics you took at Monza!)
Is it ok to buy a Ferrari second hand, I mean, their reputation is a bit on the fragility side, so what's your advice?
I've noticed that the 360s took their first hit in terms of second hand value, they used to be as expensive as a new one, but since a couple of months, they have dropped substantially making them interesting

So, Luigi, as an owner, if you have any advice, I'm more than happy to listen

Man, I hate to say this, but I've always loved Ferrari, I guess I'll have to get used to the show off image if I get one, which I will

, and it'll be RED

Take care all,
Fanch.

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Nov 5, 2002 2:20:12 PM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: LOL

fanch,
didn't you tell me some time ago "don't buy a ferrari"... I WAS REALLY WORRIED IF MY DECISION WAS RIGHT ORDERING ONE

[just kidding!!]
yes, actually i do understand you. i had the same opinion of ferraris until i actually drove one [a 355 F1] and got infected. cheap interieur, finishing far from perfect, but SOUL. lots of. and when first sitting in a modena i thought "wow! they really improved quality!" [no match for merc or porsche though, but at least it has a sporty appeal, less luxury, but reduced in a sporty sense] and i was told [and believe] that it is even possible as a daily driver if necessary, except for winter of course. maybe in some months time there are more modena than 996 drivers hanging out at rennteam

.
cheers; zzboba

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Nov 5, 2002 3:38:13 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: zzboba

Well Zzoba...

I suppose only fools don't change their minds.
But I would like to point out that this decision is based only on emotions so far.
I have actually driven one before, was impressed by the noise, the design, the engine.
Great to have all those people giving you the thumbs up as well

( Never had that in the Porsche

)
The only criticism I have is that the steering felt too light.
Now, was it just that car or is it the case with all 360s?
I've been doing a bit a research as well, and it is confirmed, for several reasons, their second hand value has dropped a lot

But a friend of mine who knows a lot about cars told me to be very very careful with second hand ferraris as they are more fragile than german cars.
He also told me that the Modena's brakes are not as good as Porsche's brakes and that a 360 is more difficult to drive, true?
Luigi, any advice for a futur potential owner?
Anyone had some experience with second hand italian cars?
Thanks,
Francois.
PS: Zzoba, it's weird, always thought you were Italian until I looked up your profile, it must be because of your nick name

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Nov 5, 2002 6:04:13 PM

f550lm: Newbie; Loc:; Posts: 32, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 22, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Well Zzoba...

Fanch - did you bump into Graypaul Ferrari? Lyndhurst - hmm that does ring a bell. I may be mistaken - if it was Graypaul - well they are a great dealership!!!!! Real enthusiasts...

Don't worry about buying a used Ferrari from any UK authorised dealer - the Formula Warranty they will give you is excellent and basically will protect you from any failures that occur. When the warranty comes to an end after a year either extend it or sell the car!

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Nov 6, 2002 4:27:33 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Well Zzoba...

Oh boy, Francois. From a 996 TT X50 to a SL 55 AMG now to a 360 Modena?

CR owns a F355 Spider and I love this car. The 360 Modena is a big too stylish for me (one reason why women LOVE the Modena, you experienced it for yourself) but I could imagine myself in a 575 M.

Honestly...don't forget to check out the Lamborghini Murcielago too...you might fall in love again.

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Nov 6, 2002 4:36:29 AM

Ron (Houston): Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Houston, TX , United States; Posts: 8812, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

As RC said...

my favorite is a F355 too. As nice as 360 is F355 just hits the spot for me. I LOVE the F355 Berlinetta F1, this car is my dream car.

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Nov 6, 2002 8:44:47 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: f550lm

Re: Well Zzoba...

OK,
Manu thanks for the tip.
Yes it was the Lyndhurst dealership, met two guys, one of them was called Wayne Olive I think, really nice, weren't too bothered by the fact I am in my twenties which is good.
Unfortunately, as an official dealer, they are only allowed to sell RHD cars, and I don't want that as I may take it back to Paris some day and also because I am used to LHD. They are some in the UK but from private garages, is that safe?
Also, in terms of warranty, you're basically telling me to make sure that the car is under warranty at all times. Do they brake down that often?
Thanks,
Francois.

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Nov 6, 2002 9:10:30 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: RC

Christian, my car wizard...

You are right, I just keep on changing my mind!.
As you know, I did really like the Lambo when I saw it last week but it really is extreme!!!
Plus my girlfriend hated it (too vulgar she said) so THAT is a problem

Seriously, the car is also way beyond my budget, and so will probably the baby Lambo, although, I would definitly be interested

Hence, the second hand Modena, but I am concerned about the reliability and the second hand market.
CR, any experiences to share with yours?
Anyone else?
Is it true that servicing costs are much higher that Porsche's?
I heard they have dropped with the 360 though.
Thanks,
Fanch.

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Nov 6, 2002 9:31:54 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Christian, my car wizard...

i haven't made my own experiences yet, but according to relyable sources, the service costs for a 360 have dropped, but they are still higher than porsches. after 40,000 km they have to completely remove the engine for servicing purposes, the costs for this inspection are approx 3,000-4,000 EUR. the next modena gets the maserati-V8 [or, as some say, the maserati already got the upcoming ferrari V8

] and this kind of costly inspection is not necessary any more.

resale value has dropped recently [i suppose due to the fact that the next modena is in sight] but they are IMO still way higher than porsches, except of course GT3.

what is interesting: the leasing offer by ferrari [powered by FIAT bank

] for a 360 modena is A LOT LOWER than the leasing price porsche offered me for a same priced 996TT. same conditions [milage, run time], of course and INSURANCE included [which porsche can not offer at all].

cheers; zz

PS. yes i'm german like sausage and sauerkraut

-- but it's funny, i thought you are french [didn't some here call you francois...?] but now see that you are from [or based in?] GB...

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Nov 6, 2002 10:18:19 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Christian, my car wizard...

Car wizard? Sounds nice, I kinda like that.

The Murcielago vulgar? Well, I suppose your girl friend is just afraid you could attract too many women with that car.

You should have seen how many heads turned around when that Murcielago I saw in South France passed along.
Yes, the Murcielago is in fact "extreme" but if I want a family car, I drive a ML55.

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Nov 6, 2002 10:38:07 AM

LG1: Pilot; Loc: Italy; Posts: 433, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Well, I can't help changing my mind...

François, now that you've been bitten you are already beyond the point of no return!

The plus point is that things will...only get better!

One falls in love with the Modena for its looks, sound, soul.
But the great thing is that you really apreciate and enjoy the car's strengths after you own it and use it for a while.
As you put miles on the car you start to understand that it not only is stunning, but that its chassis is really extremely well balanced and responsive, like you hadn't thought it could be, that its engine is violent at high revs but really pulls like a train even in the mid range, the steering that might have seemed a little light at first acquaintance really does feed everything back...and then some.Basically you really get to feel at one with the car after a little while.

It's of course not all perfect, you get a lot more attention(even more than with the GT2), especially if you choose red. The materials are very good(better than Merc and Porsche) but the build quality(esp. assembly) is not yet at Merc and Porsche standards.The paint is especially thin and fragile (very bad stone chips).

I bought my car with 2000 miles on the clock, and I would suggest you don't go for avery high mileage model because the services tend to be rather expensive and the parts are even more expensive.
I would definetly buy a car either with manufacturer insurance or from an authorized dealer that gives you 1 year insurance.
Not because the car is fragile (in my experience I would absolutely say the contrary), but because you don't want to have surprises when talking about this sort of money.

Are you going for a 6sp. or an F1 version?

If you have any type of specific question just fire away and I'll try to answer.

And may I say from a totally unbiased

point of view: good choice!

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Nov 6, 2002 11:06:28 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: LG1

Thank you Luigi

Thsi really helped, and yes you do sound totally unbiased, so it's good

This is only a thought so far, a very serious one though

I want to keep the C4C at least a year, probably will sell it befor the summer, that's when cabs sell best anyway.
So I have time.
Will probably find one in France as they are less expensive than in the UK, but it will come from an authorized dealer, I think this is the only way you can be sure if a second hand car is going to be in good conditions or not.
I don't want to reopen a F1 vs manual transmission thread, although not totally sure yet but I think I would go for a manual, I like doing heel to toe myself, and I just think the speed shifter is sooo beautiful, it's a myth

Will probably add a Traffic Pro as well as I find it so convenient for tourism trip.
I heard that from MY2001, the cars are better equiped (they get Xenon as standard, 6 CDs charger, etc.) true?
You're right about th eattention though, but I got a lot already bc of the sport exhaust of my actual car, after a while, you don't pay attention, you must know what I'm talking about with your super racy new exhaust

BTW, I think I'll consider Tubi too

But the standard version.
Red is great but flashy, alloy grey is very nice too but too close to polar grey ( I wanna change)
What do you think of Blue Tour de France?
Or black, just like yours

Fanch.

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Nov 6, 2002 11:15:22 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: zzboba

Zzoba...

I am French,
No doubts about that,
Loud, arrogant, self-centered, and extremely proud of my country, we are the best!!!

Not sure if we make the best cars though

But I changed location recently, working in London now since a few weeks and for the next few years probably.
Bad food, bad weather, but great car nation, and central London is just one big supercars carpark, it is ridiculous

I really love the way you can park a beautiful car on the street without worrying if it'll get scratch or else...
That's a long way from the french attitude

But never mind, my car is not an everyday car so it's ok,
I have to go and visit Germany one day, Berlin is on the list, been told it's a really hip young city with crazy architecture

Fanch (or indeed Francois)

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Nov 6, 2002 2:12:33 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Zzoba...

A french guy working in England, driving a german car and opting for an italian stallion in the near future. Now that's what I call international.

What nationality is your girl friend, Francois?!

Oh boy, this is what I like about this forum: we're a bunch of car nuts from around the world and we enjoy ourselves very much. No fights, no arguments, no nationalism...we might want to go into politics.

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Nov 6, 2002 4:14:55 PM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Re: Zzoba...

oh yes, london's a great city with a lot of nice cars... i always wished that i had my car with me when visiting and park it in front of a sloane street store...

i've been there a lot during my former job (even got to know my girlfriend there and our daughters first names is actually "london"

)

i love paris as well (but i was always GLAD not having my car with me

)

you should definitely visit germany. berlin is cool, no doubt. IMHO the only german city quite comparable to london or paris. i'm from hamburg, which i love and which is worth a visit as well

. the only disadvantage: nearly all car manufacturers are from southern germany and no race track nearby as well...

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Nov 6, 2002 4:46:01 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: Zzoba...

Well, my former girlfriend was swedish, which made me even more of an international man, but the Volvo is now part of my past and I am back to my national roots. She is a lovely french girl, not a car nuts but she has huge respect for my passion, I just have to make sure I don't talk about cars all the time.

BTW, talking internationalism, I am also half chinese

That's it then, I can't be beaten in terms of mealting pot

You're right though Christian, I may well opt for an italian stalion soon

But both my parents car are german (SL and the future S)

so no hard feelings.
Francois.

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Nov 6, 2002 9:36:54 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Futch

I own a Porsche and 360 Spider. I rarely drive the Porsche

because I do not get the emotional charge like I do in the Ferrari. The experience driving the Ferrari is one of rawness and excitement. The Porsche unquestionably performs well but the experience is sedate. Ferrari gives me a charge driving it at 25 MPH.

You think the steering is light in the 360 but I find it sharper and more responsive than the Porsche.

However I just experienced a breakdown in my 360(10,000 miles) and it is in the shop now for repairs. I was shifting from second to third and I heard a pop the engine began to chug and it stalled never to start again. It had to be towed. Though I do not have the finally word it appears to be serious and expensive.

While it is being repaired I will suffer emotional withdrawal.

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Nov 7, 2002 8:43:42 AM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Nberry...

Thanks for your thoughts,
I would chose the 360 spider too for week end drives, that's for sure

I hope what happened to your car is not too serious though.
Does that confirm my fear that Ferraris are not reliable?
Or is it just bad luck?
Fanch.

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Nov 7, 2002 1:18:11 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Futch

Buying a pre-owned Modena

Fanch, congratulations for considering a Ferrari

You won't regret it - the Modena is an outstanding car.

Service costs are indeed significantly above the Porsche level. Assuming a yearly mileage of about 20,000km I would expect service and spare part costs in the range of EUR 5,000 p.a.

Also, I would strongly recommend to go for the Ferrari dealership warranty. Recently, the clutch / gear-box of my car had to be changed. I was lucky enough to have the warranty pay for that. Otherwise, the cost would have been in the range of EUR 30,000

Also, should you consider the F1 version I would not recommend a car with the original clutch / gear-box and a mileage in excess of 20,000km. Due to the speed of the F1 transmission (in particular at higher revs) the wear of clutch and gear-box appears to be significant, implying that clutch / gear-box damages occur with increasing probability after roughly 20,000km

But again, go for it. You won't regret it.

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Nov 7, 2002 1:31:26 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Thanks for the info!!!

At the moment, I think it'll be manual though, so less worries about transmission.
But you're right though, bottomline is to make sure I buy one from a authorized dealer

Fanch.

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Nov 7, 2002 6:43:20 PM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: MKSGR

MKSGR,
concerning the modena's F1 tranny: is there any special "race start" program for fast launches? [i heard that the M3's SMGII has such a feature]
regards; zz

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Nov 7, 2002 8:14:12 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Futch

My car had a failure of an engine part which caused

damage to the valves and possible piston. The engine has to be removed and taken apart. It will cost almost $11,000 to repair. It is a warranty item.

In Europe Ferrari offers an extended warranty (they call it a Power Warranty) which can be purchased by any Ferrari owner. It would be a worth buying.

The Power Warranty is not available in the US.

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Nov 8, 2002 4:13:33 PM

LG1: Pilot; Loc: Italy; Posts: 433, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: My car had a failure of an engine part which caused

Nick, sorry to hear that!Hope it won't take too long...

François, you are right, MY 2001 has Xenon beams and CD (mine has the frontal unit, less weight

) standard.
Blu tour de France is a nice colour, but IMO best suited for a 456 then a 360, titanium (grigio alloy I think is the name) looks very good on the 360, esp. with the challenge grill.
But black to me really adds to the beauty of the Modena.

Going for another trackday tomorrow to Monza!The 360 is getting quite a bit more track time than I had planned.It's just so much fun...

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Nov 8, 2002 7:20:00 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: zzboba

Re: zzboa

Unfortunately, there is no launch control included in the F1 transmission...

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Crown

Forum - Thread

Well, I can't help changing my mind...

Re: LOL

Well Zzoba...

Re: Well Zzoba...

Re: Well Zzoba...

As RC said...

Re: Well Zzoba...

Christian, my car wizard...

Re: Christian, my car wizard...

Re: Christian, my car wizard...

Re: Well, I can't help changing my mind...

Thank you Luigi

Zzoba...

Re: Zzoba...

Re: Zzoba...

Re: Zzoba...

I own a Porsche and 360 Spider. I rarely drive the Porsche

Nberry...

Buying a pre-owned Modena

Thanks for the info!!!

Re: MKSGR

My car had a failure of an engine part which caused

Re: My car had a failure of an engine part which caused

Re: zzboa

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