Quote:
WAY said:
THanks for that Kreso. Sure even you have to admit that the GT-R's performance in this blows everything away. WIth the exception of the Viper which is a full on track car and runs on cup tyres, the GT-R has the best performance. It even rides better than the R8! Yeah yeah I know, it's not the Euro version. But I think that excuse is truly getting very old now. How different is the Euro version going to be compared to the UK, US and Japan versions that have all been tested now?
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
WAY said:
THanks for that Kreso. Sure even you have to admit that the GT-R's performance in this blows everything away. WIth the exception of the Viper which is a full on track car and runs on cup tyres, the GT-R has the best performance. It even rides better than the R8! Yeah yeah I know, it's not the Euro version. But I think that excuse is truly getting very old now. How different is the Euro version going to be compared to the UK, US and Japan versions that have all been tested now?
EU specs revised suspension and ECU for lower CO2 emissions... Since GT-R is delayed twice already for EU market I hope that EU spec car will be as fast as Suzuki test mule. Otherwise...
Quote:
AUM said:
Subjective opinions are just that. Everybody has them.
The best objective measure of sports cars is lap times - on a variety of tracks and with a variety of professional drivers - regardless of whether you track your car or not.
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
AUM said:
Subjective opinions are just that. Everybody has them.
The best objective measure of sports cars is lap times - on a variety of tracks and with a variety of professional drivers - regardless of whether you track your car or not.
These are road cars remember, and sacrifising 0.x of a second for better feel and composure is worth it, in the opinion of most car buyers.
Also in the case in point here the R8 has a sense of occasion and an immaculate finish in and out that any japanese car cannot approach.
The athletic dancer vs. the sumo wrestler analogy says it all.
If these cars were produced for a race series unmodified as they are, then someone might win the race with a GT-R. But if that was the purpose the other cars would be made differently.
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Well... I do not agree with you.
Why? EU specs GT-R needs to confirm 7.29min time or...
Personally, I would be satisfied if Horst achive 7.35min or even 7.40min but, if his time will be above 7.40min...
Just remember Quattroruote test-Alain Prost was faster on the track in GT2, LP560-4 and Scud then in GT-R... In fact difference was not that small...
Quote:
Nidge said:Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
AUM said:
Subjective opinions are just that. Everybody has them.
The best objective measure of sports cars is lap times - on a variety of tracks and with a variety of professional drivers - regardless of whether you track your car or not.
These are road cars remember, and sacrifising 0.x of a second for better feel and composure is worth it, in the opinion of most car buyers.
Also in the case in point here the R8 has a sense of occasion and an immaculate finish in and out that any japanese car cannot approach.
The athletic dancer vs. the sumo wrestler analogy says it all.
If these cars were produced for a race series unmodified as they are, then someone might win the race with a GT-R. But if that was the purpose the other cars would be made differently.
At twice the price perhaps the Audi should offer this level of difference
Quote:
AUM said:
The GTR has raised the bar for all performance cars. It is very close in lap times to the fastest production cars made today. If, however, you take price and practicality into account the the GTR is without rival. It sits alone at the top of the ladder far above whatever is in second place.
But there are other areas such as brand image and prestige where the GTR can never compete with its European rivals. And it is too big and too heavy for my taste.
Quote:
AUM said:
BTW 20 seconds at 165 km/h average speed on the Ring is a 923 meters margin. Hardly slight.
I live near the Ring and track there frequently. Lap times are important to me and to all authentic sports car enthusiasts.
Quote:
AUM said:
BTW 20 seconds at 165 km/h average speed on the Ring is a 923 meters margin. Hardly slight.
I live near the Ring and track there frequently. Lap times are important to me and to all authentic sports car enthusiasts.
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
AUM said:
BTW 20 seconds at 165 km/h average speed on the Ring is a 923 meters margin. Hardly slight.
I live near the Ring and track there frequently. Lap times are important to me and to all authentic sports car enthusiasts.
AUM, you are comparing Nissan's factory time to Porsche's Sport Auto time. Hardly fair. Take Porsche's 7:40 for comparison and don't forget that Nissan now claims that the GT-R will do the Ring at slightly over 7:30. Less than 10 seconds now, not 20 as everyone here says.
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
AUM said:
BTW 20 seconds at 165 km/h average speed on the Ring is a 923 meters margin. Hardly slight.
I live near the Ring and track there frequently. Lap times are important to me and to all authentic sports car enthusiasts.
AUM, you are comparing Nissan's factory time to Porsche's Sport Auto time. Hardly fair. Take Porsche's 7:40 for comparison and don't forget that Nissan now claims that the GT-R will do the Ring at slightly over 7:30. Less than 10 seconds now, not 20 as everyone here says.
20 secs is the difference compared to the Sport Auto time of 7:50 for the Carrera S PDK (rear wheel drive,80% of the Nissan official power) with Sportreifen.
Aug 28, 2008 2:08:26 PM
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
AUM said:
BTW 20 seconds at 165 km/h average speed on the Ring is a 923 meters margin. Hardly slight.
I live near the Ring and track there frequently. Lap times are important to me and to all authentic sports car enthusiasts.
A 20sec gap is huge if you build a racing car. It would also be important for road cars, if the other attributes of the comparative cars were equal.
However, 99% of sport car drivers would be willing to forgo this theoretical (to them) race track advantage in order to get the on-the-road characteristics that Motor Trend uses to arrive at its "subjective ranking".
I have to concede though, that if the sole purpose of someone's car was running at the NBR and this person was repeatedly competing against others for the best time, then the only criterium would be the Ring time where every 1/10 sec counts.
Quote:
Crash said:
AUM, you are comparing Nissan's factory time to Porsche's Sport Auto time. Hardly fair. Take Porsche's 7:40 for comparison and don't forget that Nissan now claims that the GT-R will do the Ring at slightly over 7:30. Less than 10 seconds now, not 20 as everyone here says.
Quote:
reginos said:
The price also is fictitious because it is subsidised. If it was sold at the normal price no one would give it a second look in spite of its slightly superior performance on tracks.
Quote:
AUM said:
There is already a significant body of data proving the GTR's dominance on many tracks and backroads that continues to grow every week.
By the time the SA supertest appears it will have little impact on the way the GTR is viewed by the majority of car enthusiasts. The hundreds of other tests, track times and comparisons will have already established the GTR as the new benchmark.
Quote:
Walter said:Quote:
Crash said:
AUM, you are comparing Nissan's factory time to Porsche's Sport Auto time. Hardly fair. Take Porsche's 7:40 for comparison and don't forget that Nissan now claims that the GT-R will do the Ring at slightly over 7:30. Less than 10 seconds now, not 20 as everyone here says.
The "slightly above 7:30" is wrong.It's 7:29.Nissan hasn't claimed anything else.
Sport Auto does that kind of mistakes pretty often.
Quote:
Crash said:
Incorrect. It has been stated a few years ago. Nissan claim "slightly above 7:30" now, not a whisper about 7:29 anymore. By the way, the car that ran 7:29 wasn't stock spec, in spite of what Nissan says. This has all been discussed before.
Quote:
Walter said:Quote:
Crash said:
Incorrect. It has been stated a few years ago. Nissan claim "slightly above 7:30" now, not a whisper about 7:29 anymore. By the way, the car that ran 7:29 wasn't stock spec, in spite of what Nissan says. This has all been discussed before.
Where? And what makes you think that the car wasn't stock?
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
AUM said:
There is already a significant body of data proving the GTR's dominance on many tracks and backroads that continues to grow every week.
By the time the SA supertest appears it will have little impact on the way the GTR is viewed by the majority of car enthusiasts. The hundreds of other tests, track times and comparisons will have already established the GTR as the new benchmark.
I don't agree. The existing tests are not very significant. The Supertest will be of major importance in evaluation the GTR.