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Board: Porsche - Panamera Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

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    Aug 24, 2008 6:46:57 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    but I seriously doubt that any die heart Porsche fan would consider one.



    Why not, if they what they want is a practical 4door car with good accomodation and performance to supplement their sports car or as a replacement for their sports car. Why spend money on the the ubiquitous and dull 7-series, Mercedes, Audis or Lexuses?

    As soon we remember that what they are building is a 4door saloon with the required parameters of practicality and not a motor show concept car, we shall begin viewing the car in a different light.

    BTW no one here has seen the car in finished form yet. Many people take positions that they will not change out of pride even if they like the car when they see it!

    Aug 24, 2008 11:02:23 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    but I seriously doubt that any die heart Porsche fan would consider one.



    Why not, if they what they want is a practical 4door car with good accomodation and performance to supplement their sports car or as a replacement for their sports car. Why spend money on the the ubiquitous and dull 7-series, Mercedes, Audis or Lexuses?

    As soon we remember that what they are building is a 4door saloon with the required parameters of practicality and not a motor show concept car, we shall begin viewing the car in a different light.

    BTW no one here has seen the car in finished form yet. Many people take positions that they will not change out of pride even if they like the car when they see it!



    Exactly. People who want an impractical vanity car will buy the CLS or Rapide. Those looking for a high performance family car will buy the Panamera. Porsche have developed the Panamera solely for eating a chunk of the M5's market share since it has been the preferred choice by many 911 owners forcing to sell their car because of kids. The Cayenne already eat a chunk of the market of perfomance oriented family cars and people did bite. Now the Panamera will be here to finish the job of Porsche enthusiasts not having to take a glance at other manufacturers for a family car. So we can expect the Panamera at the least to match the driving dynamics and performance of the M5 because that is its primary reason for existence. Porsche will absolutley not disappoint and people all over the world have already laid down deposits for the car and once it hits dealers orders will pile up.

    Panamera = The sedan
    Cayenne = The estate/touring
    Boxster/Cayman = Roadsters
    911 = Sports car
    928(maybe coming up) = Executive GT

    Aug 25, 2008 7:56:18 AM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Panamera is Porsche and nothing comes close to it I am sure that all those pics. of 'Panamera' are nothing like the real Panamera .

    Aug 25, 2008 8:52:33 PM

    Paulo_Rangel_Melo
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    I have a feeling that this call will look gorgeous

    Aug 25, 2008 10:51:47 PM

    ADias
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    Panamera = The sedan
    Cayenne = The estate/touring
    Boxster/Cayman = Roadsters
    911 = Sports car
    928(maybe coming up) = Executive GT



    That product portfolio made sense 10 years ago. Now that Porsche Automobil Holding SE owns 51% of the VW Group it should specialize their brands, as it makes no sense to have SUVs made by PW and Porsche, sedans vy VW, Audi and Porsche, and I'm not even taking about the boutique Lambo and Bugatti. They should specialize and going back to their roots:

    Porsche - sports cars Boxster/Cayman, 911, Motorsports
    VW - entry level cars and SUVs
    Audi - mid and top level sedans and maybe a GT.

    Aug 25, 2008 11:00:24 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: ADias

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    Panamera = The sedan
    Cayenne = The estate/touring
    Boxster/Cayman = Roadsters
    911 = Sports car
    928(maybe coming up) = Executive GT



    That product portfolio made sense 10 years ago. Now that Porsche Automobil Holding SE owns 51% of the VW Group it should specialize their brands, as it makes no sense to have SUVs made by PW and Porsche, sedans vy VW, Audi and Porsche, and I'm not even taking about the boutique Lambo and Bugatti. They should specialize and going back to their roots:

    Porsche - sports cars Boxster/Cayman, 911, Motorsports
    VW - entry level cars and SUVs
    Audi - mid and top level sedans and maybe a GT.



    Your portfolio model is the ideal but reality is different. Family comes first. It's all about independence. Porsche want to be able to stand on it's own feet and be able to abandon VW in case VW become a sinking ship. VW and Audi are just holdings and not really Porsche's main priorities. Sales for sports cars are very unstable and fluctuate a lot which is why Porsche has been in need of two traditional cars like the Panamera and Cayenne which will be secure sustainable revenue. With those two models in the line-up Porsche will finally be able to safe at night. Additionally the profits from the Panamera and Cayenne will allow Porsche to invest money into cars like the CGT and the 911 pushing the boundaries of performance even further than what they are today.

    Aug 26, 2008 1:23:17 AM

    ADias
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    Panamera = The sedan
    Cayenne = The estate/touring
    Boxster/Cayman = Roadsters
    911 = Sports car
    928(maybe coming up) = Executive GT



    That product portfolio made sense 10 years ago. Now that Porsche Automobil Holding SE owns 51% of the VW Group it should specialize their brands, as it makes no sense to have SUVs made by PW and Porsche, sedans vy VW, Audi and Porsche, and I'm not even taking about the boutique Lambo and Bugatti. They should specialize and going back to their roots:

    Porsche - sports cars Boxster/Cayman, 911, Motorsports
    VW - entry level cars and SUVs
    Audi - mid and top level sedans and maybe a GT.



    Your portfolio model is the ideal but reality is different. Family comes first. It's all about independence. Porsche want to be able to stand on it's own feet and be able to abandon VW in case VW become a sinking ship. VW and Audi are just holdings and not really Porsche's main priorities. Sales for sports cars are very unstable and fluctuate a lot which is why Porsche has been in need of two traditional cars like the Panamera and Cayenne which will be secure sustainable revenue. With those two models in the line-up Porsche will finally be able to safe at night. Additionally the profits from the Panamera and Cayenne will allow Porsche to invest money into cars like the CGT and the 911 pushing the boundaries of performance even further than what they are today.



    I hope you are right.

    Aug 26, 2008 2:20:36 AM

    JoeRockhead
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    Reply to: ADias

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    I thought ugly cars were okay as long as they put up good 'ring times?

    Anyway, I will reserve judgment until I see uncovered shots... this can't be the final design!

    Aug 26, 2008 4:45:30 AM

    MarkdsvM
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    Emperor said:
    It's going to be a very attractive car. Looking forward to it a lot. Can't wait to see the shape and graphics of the tail lights.


    Hi Emperor, you are spot on !!! A++++++++++

    Aug 26, 2008 5:57:58 PM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: MarkdsvM

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Panamera MULE is ugly !! Real car will be beautiful and phenomenal - it's Porsche , remember ?? (fake doors , anyone of you fierce critics)

    Aug 26, 2008 6:50:44 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    Misha011 said:
    Panamera MULE is ugly !! Real car will be beautiful and phenomenal - it's Porsche , remember ?? (fake doors , anyone of you fierce critics)


    You have seen a Cayenne before, right?

    Aug 26, 2008 8:58:24 PM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Grant , do you ref. to this one . I see this as designe direction and 'trademark' look on next Porsches . Why would Panamere be an exeption ??





    Aug 26, 2008 9:06:03 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    I think this Cayenne design will be very nice compare to the older ones but Panamera, just doesn't feel right.

    Aug 26, 2008 9:13:40 PM

    edz
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Looks like the dodge magnum

    Aug 27, 2008 2:48:27 AM

    shin
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    Misha011 said:
    Panamera MULE is ugly !! Real car will be beautiful and phenomenal - it's Porsche , remember ?? (fake doors , anyone of you fierce critics)





    What do you mean fake doors?

    Aug 27, 2008 5:32:40 AM

    hugo
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    Reply to: ADias

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    This thing looks totally awful,unporsche like(excluding the Cayenne)and unatractive to traditional Porsche fans and that's probably why it will sell well like the Cayenne to a lot of "new" comers

    Aug 27, 2008 6:48:28 AM

    Spyderidol
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    Misha011 said:
    Panamera MULE is ugly !! Real car will be beautiful and phenomenal - it's Porsche , remember ?? (fake doors , anyone of you fierce critics)





    I must admit that I thought the same thing when I first saw this picture a few months ago.
    Today however, I think that this is just another quirky design feature of this car.
    It just doesn't add up! Why would you place false panels (as we have seen) over a fake shell?
    No; I'm afraid what we are seeing (latest pictures) is what we will get.

    Aug 27, 2008 11:28:37 AM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: shin

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Quote:
    Misha011 said:
    Panamera MULE is ugly !! Real car will be beautiful and phenomenal - it's Porsche , remember ?? (fake doors , anyone of you fierce critics)





    What do you mean fake doors?



    Not only doors !! The whole green car is just 'cocoone' inside which a real Panamera is. Look closely and you will see (roof as well)

    Aug 27, 2008 11:37:09 AM

    Joost
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Looking at your last picture, and extrapolating the shape of the rear dor on the rear fender, I wouldn't be surprised if the Panamera has Cayman-like rear fenders.
    -Joost-

    Aug 27, 2008 12:18:41 PM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: Joost

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    and next gen. Cayenne and 911 , ie. Porsche signature look

    Aug 27, 2008 1:05:11 PM

    ISUK Offline
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Misha,

    I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but I think you are trying to delude yourself if you think your dotted white line shows the true depth of the door and the green section beyond is some sort of massive camo section. The inner "door" you suggest would fall way short of the depth of the rear wheel arch for starters and test mules would not be given an additional axle track width of some 100 to 140mm as it would totally invalidate all handling trials. Those doors are the real deal with some partial cladding to hide the scallop on the lower section. This cladding has been removed on the latest pics of the black car. The door depth your line suggests would in no way provide ample side impact protection space for occupants.

    If you are still not convinced follow the hard points on the outer edge of the green section of the door. Just below the window you will see the panel edge curve out then kick up into a swage line crease that marries up the swage line that continues on the rear wing above the gas tank flap and disects the rear light.

    Aug 27, 2008 1:10:47 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: ISUK

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Anyway, the finished car will be much better than the mules.

    If that's still not good enough for some, it is pointless IMO to carry on this discussion and to go all over the same analyses of the same old pictures, again and again.

    Aug 27, 2008 1:54:11 PM

    shin
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Verdict is as the thread subject says : The Panamera is ugly.

    Aug 27, 2008 2:34:43 PM

    SoCalHoosier
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Anyway, the finished car will be much better than the mules.

    If that's still not good enough for some, it is pointless IMO to carry on this discussion and to go all over the same analyses of the same old pictures, again and again.



    So the goal of all car companies should be... make your test mule look as ugly as possible so that the real car will shine. Classic.
    It's like the chic that likes to hang out with ugly friends so she looks like Miss Universe.

    Sorry folks but the Cayenne was introduced as a performance leader in its class but was a zero when it came to looks. (I own one and still think they're ugly) Will this car's performance lead its class or will this be a vehicle Porsche wished it had never built...

    Aug 27, 2008 2:46:23 PM

    Spyderidol
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    Reply to: Misha011

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    But this still doesn't explain why Porsche went to the trouble of disguising the "cocoon" with false paneling (see side of rear bumper).

    Aug 27, 2008 3:12:31 PM

    Misha011
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    Reply to: Spyderidol

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    To make people belive that 'cocoon' is a real car . Good joke Porsche (BTW no trouble - few pop rivets , that's all)

    Aug 27, 2008 4:20:28 PM

    Wonderbar
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    If the purpose of this thread is to gather positive/negative opinions about the Panamera, count my vote on the positive side.

    The car will rise or fall not on design, but on the world economic market and the niche demand for another four door sports sedan. (I do not count the Rapide in this category, as its rear seat room is ludicrously tiny). Will I buy one? No, I am just not in that niche market. Will I admire it? I will wait for the final version, but Porsche has a fine record of well engineered and (yes) well designed sports cars...

    Aug 27, 2008 7:14:02 PM

    racerx
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    Reply to: Wonderbar

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    I am posting these pics as a reminder of what a SEDAN actually looks like. Its lines should be somewhat sleek and it should have a rear-end.

    Look at the rake angle of the panamera windshield from the side compared to the competition and the height of the windshield from the front in the pics next to the rapide.

    The panamera looks like the US presidential limo from the front.

    Here is a very nice sedan that costs about 1/2 of the projected panamera.

    Aug 27, 2008 7:15:17 PM

    racerx
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    Reply to: racerx

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    I have driven one of these and they are very impressive.

    Aug 27, 2008 7:16:57 PM

    racerx
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    Reply to: racerx

    Re: The Panamera is ugly...

    The panamera with the hatchback is very useful but it makes it into a cross-over imo.

    It all comes down to proportions.
     
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