Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - 997 C2S - Best shifting points - Page1

Aug 24, 2008 1:17:45 AM

Zoom: Newbie; Loc: Casablanca; Posts: 3, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 11, 2008

997 C2S - Best shifting points

Hi,

I have been trying different approaches to get the best acceleration and 0-60 performances but it seems that I am not very smooth. I sometimes go just before the redline and it just seems that it's not the best shifting point. I would like to know what would be the best shifting points for a 997 C2S manual.

Thanks

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Aug 24, 2008 4:31:32 AM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: Zoom

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

6500 rpm ish for each change.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PmV5hq5P344&feature=user

This is me - first to second done at 6,500 ish.

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Aug 24, 2008 7:45:09 AM

donkeyman: Junior; Loc: Hong Kong; Posts: 113, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Is that Mt Fuji in the background?

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Aug 24, 2008 11:00:32 AM

ResB: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Yorkshire, where roads are twisty... , United Kingdom; Posts: 2858, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2006; Reply to: donkeyman

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Red Line works foe me.

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Aug 24, 2008 1:53:19 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
6500 rpm ish for each change.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PmV5hq5P344&feature=user

This is me - first to second done at 6,500 ish.

While you are out there, let's see some spirited driving on the Hakone mountain roads.

Or has the police put a stop to that now?

Is the private Alfa Romeo museum (Matsuda Collection?????) somewhere near there still in business?

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Aug 24, 2008 2:07:53 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Donkey man, yes, that is Mt Fuji.

I go up to the Hakone mountain roads regularly. The police are cool - we can get up to 200 - 240 on some of the straights near Mt. Fuji.

The last passenger I had with me - he was supposed to film - the bugger begged me to stop and then PUKED! The roads are pretty windy and it is not hard to loose it!

I will make a video and post it some time!

If you search OTHER VIDEO's by TOKYO997 you will see a couple of others - the Lamborghini video is cool - the car sounds AWESOME!

Fritz, the Matsuda Collection is still there - man that guy owns a lot of cars! I think he has at least one of every Ferrari since 1960 or something - including the Enzo, F50, F40 and Challenge cars!

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Aug 24, 2008 2:16:14 PM

donkeyman: Junior; Loc: Hong Kong; Posts: 113, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Porky,

Thanks. I'll certainly look forward to those videos.

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Aug 24, 2008 2:31:36 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
Fritz, the Matsuda Collection is still there - man that guy owns a lot of cars! I think he has at least one of every Ferrari since 1960 or something - including the Enzo, F50, F40 and Challenge cars!

Thanks for that quick answer.

You mention the Ferraris in the Matsuda Collection, whereas the Alfas stuck in my mind more. Am I thinking of a different collection, or are both marques very well-represented in the Matsuda musem????

I'll have to dig out my old (pre-digital age

) photos?

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Aug 24, 2008 3:14:10 PM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006; Reply to: ResB

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Quote:
ResB said:
Red Line works foe me.

Idem!

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Aug 24, 2008 6:56:09 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Just _before_ redline when you get frisky.

Because, it seems to me, that if you let the rev limiter come into play you lose time. Also power drops off near redline according to chart.

At other "normal" driving times? Shift anytime you want because the engine has lots of HP and Tq; it can handle it.

FWIW, here's the power graph - ignore the X51 info.

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Aug 24, 2008 7:15:29 PM

Jim48: Senior; Loc: Virginia, USA; Posts: 639, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

FWIW, if I am not racing, I try to shift - even in town - from 3,500 - 4,000 rpm. I usually get the smoothest shifts - for normal driving - in that range. Keep the revs near 5,000 or 5,500 rpm, when upshifting for performance, as you get maximum torque above 4,200 (or is it 4,400) rpm.

I let my brother drive mine recently (he has a 2007 Corvette C6), and he was complaining about the revs necessary on mine to get the torque and acceleration. I remember pointing out that the 911 needs a bit more revs because of the smaller displacement it has versus the Corvette.

Jim

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Aug 25, 2008 1:28:49 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Quote:
MMD said:
Just _before_ redline when you get frisky.

Because, it seems to me, that if you let the rev limiter come into play you lose time. Also power drops off near redline according to chart.

Shifting right at redline is fastest. Although power is declining a bit before redline, a redline shift puts you closer to the power peak in the next higher gear.

The objective is to spend as much time as close to the engine's power peak - shifting at redline optimizes this.

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Aug 25, 2008 1:45:00 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
MMD said:
Just _before_ redline when you get frisky.

Because, it seems to me, that if you let the rev limiter come into play you lose time. Also power drops off near redline according to chart.

Shifting right at redline is fastest. Although power is declining a bit before redline, a redline shift puts you closer to the power peak in the next higher gear.

The objective is to spend as much time as close to the engine's power peak - shifting at redline optimizes this.

Thanks Buddy..., makes perfect sense. Will try to change my ways.

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Aug 25, 2008 9:52:52 AM

Zoom: Newbie; Loc: Casablanca; Posts: 3, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 11, 2008; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Thanks for the answers. I will go for a drive again and use that chrono package that I have paid for and never used

I will try to shift at 5,000rpm from 0-60 and write down the time and at redline and compare the times.

My thought would have been to shift before redline on 1st-2nd around (5-6k rpm) and then redline for the rest. As it seems that the time spent on 1st at high revs is not very efficient and might be more profitable in 2nd.

I guess it's about testing until it feels right. I just was thinking there was some formula nobody knows

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Aug 25, 2008 2:00:05 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Quote:
Grant said:
Shifting right at redline is fastest. Although power is declining a bit before redline, a redline shift puts you closer to the power peak in the next higher gear.

The objective is to spend as much time as close to the engine's power peak - shifting at redline optimizes this.

Bingo.....

And MMD is correct as well, you don't want to hit that rev-limiter, it'll scrub all your momentum. So you want to tickle that zone just as you get to redline... The limiter doesn't hit until slightly after redline...

Also, don't "power-shift" with your foot planted on the accelerator... You'll knock the rev-limiter between shifts, which (depending upon the car you're in) will cut off fuel and/or spark momentarily, and sometimes retard timing, which causes you to kick out the clutch into the next gear either without, or down on, power...

My speed-shift technique involves a lightning-quick "lift-blip" timed precisely with the clutch kick...

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Aug 25, 2008 2:06:56 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Zoom

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Quote:
Zoom said:
My thought would have been to shift before redline on 1st-2nd around (5-6k rpm) and then redline for the rest. As it seems that the time spent on 1st at high revs is not very efficient and might be more profitable in 2nd.

Nope, not really. The torque and hp curves don't lie. Typically the best argument for a "short-shift" between 1st and 2nd ("short-shift" being the act of shifting somewhere well-short of the redline) is when you've got traction issues, and you're looking to avoid breaking the tires-loose when you hit 2nd... That's not a worry in a 911!!!

Many American V8 "muscle cars" do require short-shifting 1-2, otherwise you just boil the tires in 2nd and scary alterations in direction begin to happen!

My supercharged S351 Saleen is a prime example, 1st-through-3rd gears must be approached with extreme care and restraint...

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Aug 15, 2009 11:34:44 AM

iliasgk74: Newbie; Loc: greece , Greece; Posts: 3, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 15, 2009; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

hi,

i just bought a mod 2006 997 4s with PSE and more.

I just noticed that rev stops in about 7300 in normal mode and in sport mode goes 7500.

is this normal?or did car has already tuned ecu?

thanks in advance!

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Sep 3, 2009 8:51:47 AM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: iliasgk74

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

I should be very surprised if anyone has checked this. Hitting the rev-limiter is not something to make a habit of. Not even in the interests of this sort of comparison check..

--

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

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Sep 3, 2009 1:11:51 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: John H

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Yes, it's normal, the "Sport" setting I'm pretty certain offers up another couple hundred rpm,.... And yes, John H is correct, hitting your rev-limiter on-purpose isn't an advisable exercise, although most modern cars now use a "softer" shut-down that manipulates both spark and fuel in a way that's as gentle as possible to the engine. But even still, hitting your rev-limiter is always like poking a sleeping bear with a pointy stick in my opinion...

--
If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...

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Sep 3, 2009 7:12:28 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Hey, welcome back 69bossnine

--

Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

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Sep 3, 2009 7:57:41 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Thanks!!

After the big website change, I lost interest... That, and I'd pretty much learned everything I thought I needed to know about my car, and I'm not terribly interested in trading her for any "newer" iteration of 997, so I just kinda faded out...

My 997S spends most of the time in its air-conditioned cocoon (my new house that I moved into last year has a garage in the pool house, so that's where the Porsche lives, safe from kids, bicycles, and general what-not), and still looks as new today as it did when I picked her up, I think I'm up to 17,000 miles.

I tend to drive less in the summertime, as Florida summers are hot/humid, and you just putt around with the windows up and a/c on, and then it rains every day. Not good car-enthusiast weather, it's the southern equivelant to harsh northern winters.

So I've been spending most of my time beating on my modded '06 GTO (lots of power, no worries, no attention, I like that..), driving the classic cars when the sun pokes through the clouds out of necessity of sorting them out as we work on things, and that's that.

I'll likely keep the Carrera S forever, and it serves as my "special" car for good weather, and on-a-whim pure enjoyment.

I'm likely going to retire the GTO from "beater" service this spring, and order up a 2010 or 2011 Shelby GT500 as my new daily-mauler. I've got good connections to speed shops that do amazing mod, tune and dyno-work on those cars, so it should be a real Turbo stomper... Well, at least in a straight line ;)

So that's my current status, in a nutshell. Still love my Carrera S as much as ever, if not more, so it'll stay with me, and I'm still a muscle-car guy at heart!

--
If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...

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Sep 4, 2009 9:27:10 AM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

69bossnine:

My 997S spends most of the time in its air-conditioned cocoon.....

...and I'm still a muscle-car guy at heart!

Hey boss, nice to read something from you Smiley I've been missing your posts - always a joy to read, nice combo of tech knowledge and good humor Smiley

Maybe RT should add two new sub-Fora to regain your interest:

(1) Garage Queens Smiley (all about babying / cleaning your car - I recall you're an expert at that)

(2) Muscle Cars (could attract a different breed of car nuts to the site...) Smiley Smiley

--
public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

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Sep 4, 2009 1:20:14 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

"Garage Queens", that's funny...

I'd be all for it, except I'd quickly tire of all the whining, crying, preaching and pontificating from the hyper-obsessed drive-or-die cars-were-made-to-drive-every-hour-of-every-day-until-they-blow-up-or-fall-apart masturbating-while-driving nut cases...

And I mean that in the nicest way...

--
If you've got an issue, here's a tissue...

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Sep 4, 2009 6:25:12 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

69bossnine:

"Garage Queens", that's funny...

I'd be all for it, except I'd quickly tire of all the whining, crying, preaching and pontificating from the hyper-obsessed drive-or-die cars-were-made-to-drive-every-hour-of-every-day-until-they-blow-up-or-fall-apart masturbating-while-driving nut cases...

And I mean that in the nicest way...

Good to see you back, and also good to see you haven't lost your way with words. Smiley

--

fritz

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997 C2S - Best shifting points

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Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

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Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

Re: 997 C2S - Best shifting points

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