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reginos said:
The GT-Rs and the R8s are the only real Porsche competitors and in certain areas of evaluation they are the better cars. They come from reputable, solid manufacturers but they are limited production halo models. They are good for Porsche because they raise the bar but on the other hand because they are produced in small numbers they don't hurt sales.
Aug 25, 2008 9:00:23 PM
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phelipcopter said:
It is true that GTR is a faster car from A to B and will win on a race track but Porsche is still a better car.
A G-shock costing $100 will offer more functions and accurancy that not even a $200,000 Patek can match. Is Patek an inferior watch? You must be kidding. Patek is an mechanical marvel and so is Porsche.
When you drive a Porsche, you are driving a machine that has evolved over 40 years. And they improve with each generation. Hitler believed car should be pushed from behind and 911 was borned with this engineering problem - tail happy and small engine bay.
911 is in a clas of its own and while we can compare it to anything, one has to bear in mind its history, evolution and relentless pursuit of excellence. Just like Patek which continues to shock the horological world with its latest innovation.
I firmly believe that Porsche has the engineering prowness to develop a new car that blow the competition away but commerical considerations dictate otherwise.
I find the jounalists a bit simple-minded. If they dislike the pdk buttons... why dont they get a manual transmission or compare to R8 R-tronic. What so special about R8 - just an old RS4 engine put in the middle.
I prefer Patek over G-shock anytime of the day and any day of the year.
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shin said:Quote:
phelipcopter said:
It is true that GTR is a faster car from A to B and will win on a race track but Porsche is still a better car.
A G-shock costing $100 will offer more functions and accurancy that not even a $200,000 Patek can match. Is Patek an inferior watch? You must be kidding. Patek is an mechanical marvel and so is Porsche.
When you drive a Porsche, you are driving a machine that has evolved over 40 years. And they improve with each generation. Hitler believed car should be pushed from behind and 911 was borned with this engineering problem - tail happy and small engine bay.
911 is in a clas of its own and while we can compare it to anything, one has to bear in mind its history, evolution and relentless pursuit of excellence. Just like Patek which continues to shock the horological world with its latest innovation.
I firmly believe that Porsche has the engineering prowness to develop a new car that blow the competition away but commerical considerations dictate otherwise.
I find the jounalists a bit simple-minded. If they dislike the pdk buttons... why dont they get a manual transmission or compare to R8 R-tronic. What so special about R8 - just an old RS4 engine put in the middle.
I prefer Patek over G-shock anytime of the day and any day of the year.
LOL, but Porsche is not even the Patek of the automotive world. Ferrari, Lamborghini and aston martin are much more desirable a brand.
It's funny, before the GT-R, the same Casion vs Patek/Rolex argument had been used so many times before for Ferrari/Lambo vs Porsche debate, in which Ferrari/Lambo is the Patek and Porsche is the Casio (very precisely engineneered). If Porsche is as desirable as Ferrari/Lambo, we will not see anyone buying 430s or LP560s because for a fraction of the price they can get a Porsche Turbo, be it the 2-door or the truck. (more true in the US where Porsches are cheaper).
I find this Casio vs Patek argument weak. If the GT-R is Casio, Ferrari would be the Rolex of the automotive world. Lambo/aston would be Panerai/Patek.
LOL, let's just stick to cars. analogy to other things is not a very strong argument as they're not even apples to oranges. No one is racing Casio vs Patek because none will show time faster than the other but people are racing GT-R vs other cars.
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DavidSF said:
All I can say is before buying my Boxster, I also test drove the Miata and S2000. There was something special about the Boxster. Miata and S2000 were similar, but the Boxster was different and special.
I've used the watches argument myself:
Ferrari = gold diamond encrusted Rolex watch (nice, but vulgar)
Lamborghini = Patek (nice, and classy)
Porsche = Omega (nice, classy, more affordable, just as nice as Rolex and Patek (certified Swiss made chronometer just like Rolex and Patek), albeit less exclusive)
I must be a mixed up guy because I drive a Boxster and wear a Rolex... I'd have thought Rolex or Omega were more of a horological Porsche, tough and practical. The GTR would be a diamond encrusted Seiko, more accurate but nothing special. 
And I suspect the GTR would be the same.
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reginos said:
The GT-R is allegedly some 20secs faster than the new 997 S PDK on the NBR. That is 20 secs on a 14 mile lap.
Maybe a lot in racing terms but not enough for the average driver or journalist for that matter, to make a palpable difference during his test drive .
Aug 26, 2008 2:19:28 PM
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Grant said:Quote:
reginos said:
The GT-R is allegedly some 20secs faster than the new 997 S PDK on the NBR. That is 20 secs on a 14 mile lap.
Maybe a lot in racing terms but not enough for the average driver or journalist for that matter, to make a palpable difference during his test drive .
20 seconds is an eternity in racing terms and very significant and noticable for a good driver on the street. I'd agree with you if the laptime difference was 5 sec on 14 mile track, but not 20 seconds...
Aug 26, 2008 2:55:24 PM
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Porsche-Jeck said:Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
reginos said:
The GT-R is allegedly some 20secs faster than the new 997 S PDK on the NBR. That is 20 secs on a 14 mile lap.
Maybe a lot in racing terms but not enough for the average driver or journalist for that matter, to make a palpable difference during his test drive .
20 seconds is an eternity in racing terms and very significant and noticable for a good driver on the street. I'd agree with you if the laptime difference was 5 sec on 14 mile track, but not 20 seconds...
20 seconds +/- at cruising speed on NoS is not that much, 20 seconds +/- at the limit is very noticeable.
Aug 26, 2008 2:55:56 PM
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reginos said:Exactly! How many of these people (journalists and others) that are so thrilled by the speed of the GT-R during their test drives can drive for 14 miles at the limit in order to realise this difference?
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Grant said:Quote:
reginos said:Exactly! How many of these people (journalists and others) that are so thrilled by the speed of the GT-R during their test drives can drive for 14 miles at the limit in order to realise this difference?
The point is NOT that a journalist is going to drive the ring in 7 and a half minutes. The point is that a 20 sec. advantage on the Ring implies a MUCH higher performance level on real world streets (NBR is the most street-like of tracks).
Of course only a small percentage of drivers can extract the maximum performance from ANY car, let alone a high performance sportscar. Does that mean we should all drive Fiat Panda's because we're not worthy?
Give the GT-R its due - it's a very fast car with higher performance than a Carrera or R8 for less money. Does that mean I want one? Not necessarily, but I would never try to diminish the level of its performance and try to say it's irrelevant or immaterial...
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reginos said:
The GT-R is allegedly some 20secs faster than the new 997 S PDK on the NBR. That is 20 secs on a 14 mile lap.
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MKSGR said:Quote:
reginos said:
The GT-R is allegedly some 20secs faster than the new 997 S PDK on the NBR. That is 20 secs on a 14 mile lap.
Under comparable conditions I would expect the GTR to be less than 10s faster than the 997s: the 997s did a 7.50 in the recent SportAuto Supertest, the GTR is likely to achieve a lap time of 7.40 or slightly higher. Looking forward to the GTR Supertest this fall
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KresoF1 said:
Markus,
You mean next summer? Since sale of EU GT-R will start in April/May 2009...
AMS already requested GT-R from Nissan Germany. They said first press cars will be delivered in April 2009...
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Crash said:
To everyone here, who are comparing the 997TT and the GT-R. If comparing factory times, the 997TT did 7:40. You can't compare Nissan's factory time to the Sport Auto time.
Aug 27, 2008 12:09:39 AM
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