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Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
SteveD said:
I can no longer be rational about the CSL, it's like a family pet. I have owned it since new 5 years ago and the driving experience remains unique even to this day. It's not the best car ever, but its delivered more smiles than any car I've owned.
I had an Audi B7 RS4 up until a few months ago and I would choose a GT-R over the RS4.
The smile factor is perhaps the most important aspect of sports car ownership. Would you choose the CSL over the GTR?
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
AUM said:Quote:
SteveD said:
I can no longer be rational about the CSL, it's like a family pet. I have owned it since new 5 years ago and the driving experience remains unique even to this day. It's not the best car ever, but its delivered more smiles than any car I've owned.
I had an Audi B7 RS4 up until a few months ago and I would choose a GT-R over the RS4.
The smile factor is perhaps the most important aspect of sports car ownership. Would you choose the CSL over the GTR?
I am sure I would be seduced by the GT-R if I came to them both afresh today. Amazing to think that the GT-R actually costs less today than my CSL cost back in 2003.
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
SteveD said:
The video feature containing the lap times at Silverstone with Vbox overlays will be broadcast from next week. We also ran them all side by side in a drag race to put the performance of Porsche's new PDK gearbox in context.
Without giving away anything, prepare to be impressed with the PDK system (despite the silly steering wheel buttons) but also recognise how quick the GT-R really is. We drove two GT-Rs on the circuit, both of which were un-tampered and running on standard tyres, so are confident they were representative of customer cars. We also ran a new 911 with the DFI engine (but with a manual box) for the past week, so can also attest to the difference made by the PDK box and how 'pessimistic' the 385PS claim for the new Carerra S is.
To really put things in perspective we ran our supercar test at Silverstone last week, comparing Lamborghini's LP560-4 against Ferrari's Scuderia and Porsche's 911 GT2. That will put some well needed context to the lap times set by the GT-R and the other sportscars in this current group test.
The first video will be up next week, with the supercar video thereafter.
SteveD,
Is the 8/10-rating the 997S FL recieved due to the PDK and it's unfortunate buttons (i.e. is the manual 997S FL worth a 9/10?) or is the 997S FL as a whole not as good as the other cars in this test?
I haven't read the article yet, so I'll excuse in advance in case the answer to my question is to be found in the article...
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
Porker said:
SteveD,
Is the 8/10-rating the 997S FL recieved due to the PDK and it's unfortunate buttons (i.e. is the manual 997S FL worth a 9/10?) or is the 997S FL as a whole not as good as the other cars in this test?
I haven't read the article yet, so I'll excuse in advance in case the answer to my question is to be found in the article...
Setting aside the PDK driver interface, the 997.2S with PDK did not drive as well as the one we subsequently drove with the manual box. It's steering felt slightly vague, the body control was too soft when PASM was switched off (whereas the manual 997C2S we had last week felt much better sorted).
If the manual 997C2S had been there on the day then we would have given it a 9/10, no doubt about it. We have to judge what the manufacturers provide us with, so 8 was about right for this particular car.
My final drive in this red 911 was great though, so I wish I had taken it home with me rather than the Aston.
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
SteveD said:Quote:
Porker said:
SteveD,
Is the 8/10-rating the 997S FL recieved due to the PDK and it's unfortunate buttons (i.e. is the manual 997S FL worth a 9/10?) or is the 997S FL as a whole not as good as the other cars in this test?
I haven't read the article yet, so I'll excuse in advance in case the answer to my question is to be found in the article...
Setting aside the PDK driver interface, the 997.2S with PDK did not drive as well as the one we subsequently drove with the manual box. It's steering felt slightly vague, the body control was too soft when PASM was switched off (whereas the manual 997C2S we had last week felt much better sorted).
If the manual 997C2S had been there on the day then we would have given it a 9/10, no doubt about it. We have to judge what the manufacturers provide us with, so 8 was about right for this particular car.
My final drive in this red 911 was great though, so I wish I had taken it home with me rather than the Aston.
I cannot see how PDK vs manual affects the the steering and the handling/ride.
It must have been some other variable perhaps.
Are you sure one of the two (the manual) didn't have the optional Sport PASM -20mm?
Alternatively, could it be due to the tyres?
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
The chassis options were the same, but the cars felt different. Even the performance was different, the PDK 911 pulling harder than the manual version, so perhaps it was just down to a production variance.
I agree there was nothing inherently due to it being a PDK equipped 911, but the car itself was overall just short of being a 9/10.
I agree there was nothing inherently due to it being a PDK equipped 911, but the car itself was overall just short of being a 9/10.
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Nice article, congrats.
IMHO the conclusion is that all these are great cars. Just pick one (or two) and be happy.
One thing these articles can't translate: daily experience of ownership. In that regard, my Aston has been leagues above my 911... And the noise...
IMHO the conclusion is that all these are great cars. Just pick one (or two) and be happy.
One thing these articles can't translate: daily experience of ownership. In that regard, my Aston has been leagues above my 911... And the noise...
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
SciFrog said:
Nice article, congrats.
IMHO the conclusion is that all these are great cars. Just pick one (or two) and be happy.
One thing these articles can't translate: daily experience of ownership. In that regard, my Aston has been leagues above my 911... And the noise...
The way I see it, is that as you say you cannot be wrong with any of these and the choice is down to personal priorities as well as the owner's personality.
Obviously, there are differences between them and pros and cons which are only palpable by lucky auto journalists in the context of a group test but which the normal owner of any of those would never have a chance to experience and evaluate .
In summary:
The Porsche is an excelent faithful companion in all respects
The Aston is much more exclusive with english charm and it is something to cherish
The Audi is trying to combine the best attributes of the two cars above and to great extent it achieves this goal.
The Nissan is a very effective gadget of car. It is an excellent driving apparatus with the latest techno spec. The type of car for the electronic age.
Car fans must feel very lucky with the kind of choice that is available today and before the anti-car legislation kills these pleasure machines.
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
SteveD said:Quote:
Porker said:
SteveD,
Is the 8/10-rating the 997S FL recieved due to the PDK and it's unfortunate buttons (i.e. is the manual 997S FL worth a 9/10?) or is the 997S FL as a whole not as good as the other cars in this test?
I haven't read the article yet, so I'll excuse in advance in case the answer to my question is to be found in the article...
Setting aside the PDK driver interface, the 997.2S with PDK did not drive as well as the one we subsequently drove with the manual box. It's steering felt slightly vague, the body control was too soft when PASM was switched off (whereas the manual 997C2S we had last week felt much better sorted).
If the manual 997C2S had been there on the day then we would have given it a 9/10, no doubt about it. We have to judge what the manufacturers provide us with, so 8 was about right for this particular car.
My final drive in this red 911 was great though, so I wish I had taken it home with me rather than the Aston.
Thanks for the quick reply!
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
SteveD said:
The chassis options were the same, but the cars felt different. Even the performance was different, the PDK 911 pulling harder than the manual version, so perhaps it was just down to a production variance.
I agree there was nothing inherently due to it being a PDK equipped 911, but the car itself was overall just short of being a 9/10.
There's no way that steering diffs are due to a tranny in a RWD car.
The cars' alignments and or tires could be different and that would explain it.
Now when you say the PODK was pulling harder... that is understandable, as the PDK car revs up and shift seamlessly without delay.
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
ADias said:Quote:
SteveD said:
The chassis options were the same, but the cars felt different. Even the performance was different, the PDK 911 pulling harder than the manual version, so perhaps it was just down to a production variance.
I agree there was nothing inherently due to it being a PDK equipped 911, but the car itself was overall just short of being a 9/10.
There's no way that steering diffs are due to a tranny in a RWD car.
The cars' alignments and or tires could be different and that would explain it.
Now when you say the PODK was pulling harder... that is understandable, as the PDK car revs up and shift seamlessly without delay.
Gnil (post on 997 Board) just drove a PDK and manual back-to-back and reported the same difference in the steering. He supposed that it was due to the steering wheel used on the PDK-equipped car...
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Hi Steve - congrats to you and the DR team for rolling out such a great online publication. Love the interface and the writing. One thing that surprised me was the final verdict which rated the Aston on par with the 911 - as per your comments, shouldn't it deserve a lesser rating?
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
SteveD said:
We have had a few problems with these Flash based magazine platforms so we have decided to move to an HTML format that should make it more usable on every browser. The added benefit is that the magazine features will also be available to read on iPod/iPhones. This should be in place in the next fortnight.
I can view the PDF version though Safari on my iPhone and it's nice & readable (far better than the HTML version).
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
JYH said:
Hi Steve - congrats to you and the DR team for rolling out such a great online publication. Love the interface and the writing. One thing that surprised me was the final verdict which rated the Aston on par with the 911 - as per your comments, shouldn't it deserve a lesser rating?
Our decisions were split on the Aston. I would have chosen a lower rating, but the rest of the guys felt it just managed an 8, partly because of how far it has improved over previous versions. The 997.2 C2S should have been a 9, but in the context of its strange feeling chassis/steering and the PDK driver interface it fell to an 8.
It's hard to be scientific, which is why we would prefer the narrative to be the main body of evidence and for everyone to decide for themselves using our key points as areas to 'further investigate'. Some people will love the Aston more than the Porsche, whilst others will find no issues with the PDK interface. I am also pretty sure some people will drive the GT-R and decide that it comes last in this selection of cars no matter how quick or competent that it is.
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
SciFrog said:
Flash blows, it just makes everything slow and not that much nicer... I applaud Apple's decision not to support it on the iPhone.
I am now told that the reason why some people have experienced problems with our chosen magazine platform is due to recent changes in IE7 and Firefox 3.0 (apparently you may have too many session windows open - try it and let me know).
To be honest YouTube has experienced problems with the latest version of Firefox and it caused us loads of problems with the registration system on our site, but I can't help feeling its like one of those cartoons where the two mischievous boys point at each other and say "he did it!".
I really can't get to the bottom of it, hence have decided to drop flash and aim for better success with something less visually sophisticated.
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
BangoO said:
By the way, you guys have to work on the sound, sometimes we can barely hear you talking...
We don't expect anyone to cut us any slack, but let me give you an idea of the environment in which we film the video.
We have the GP Circuit at Silverstone booked from 6pm to 8pm, after which the circuit must close due to local bylaws. So we have 2 hours with 4 cars, within which time we need to calibrate the Vbox units, bring the cars up to temperature and find the limits within the context of the circuit conditions/tyre/ambient temps. For each lap a banker lap is set, then a timed lap and then the car comes into the pits to check the the video has been recorded and Vbox data is captured. We also need to swap cars and ensure the lap times are as representative of the cars and not just the drivers.
It would be great to do a run through of all the content before leaving the circuit, allowing us to re-do anything that might be missing, but there just isn't time.
It's even more manic during a group test, than a single car test, and we probably look quite comical jumping in and out of cars whilst quickly re-affixing the sound mics and re-starting the cameras and Vbox.
It's always a real challenge to get everything covered within the time available, but we will keep working on it.
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
SteveD, in fact there were 2 issues.
One was while driving the Aston, and I understand you can't do it twice.
But the other one is close to the end, when Chris is talking while the cars are passing by, and I guess his comments are added after the video was shot, and then you could adjust them, but maybe I'm wrong
Anyway, very nice video, very interesting !
So... congrats
One was while driving the Aston, and I understand you can't do it twice.
But the other one is close to the end, when Chris is talking while the cars are passing by, and I guess his comments are added after the video was shot, and then you could adjust them, but maybe I'm wrong
Anyway, very nice video, very interesting !
So... congrats
Re: [DR] GT-R v 911 PDK v Audi R8 v Aston Vantage
Quote:
BangoO said:
SteveD, in fact there were 2 issues.
One was while driving the Aston, and I understand you can't do it twice.
But the other one is close to the end, when Chris is talking while the cars are passing by, and I guess his comments are added after the video was shot, and then you could adjust them, but maybe I'm wrong
Yes, you are quite right. I noticed that Chris' voice-over was too quiet in places. I will see if the guys can fix it, although I know that they have two other videos in the production studio at the moment.
P.s. I should just add that we started collecting audio files from these group tests, starting with this feature, and we will be launching a new audio mp3 section on the site soon. Best sound files we collected (I think) were the R8 and the V8 Vantage. You will be able to judge for yourselves.
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