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    Jul 3, 2008 5:50:21 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Alex_997TT
    Loc: Reading , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Parr (the CG reseller) want to charge me Pounds1410 (1800 USD) for just the install!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't know of another good Porsche suspension specialist though here in the UK. I will try to find one.

    - and yes, it IS my wedding, thanks

    BTW: that's about 12 hours work based on OPC rates in the UK (which are already crazy high). No way can it take 12 hours to fit just Bilstein's!

    Jul 3, 2008 6:51:59 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Quote:
    cannga said:

    I paid US $2500 for mine, plus about $600 installation, $200 alignment. The price discrepency is so much!



    Guys - approx how long do the work take to switch over the dampeners only?

    Jul 3, 2008 9:32:24 PM

    atomic80
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    That's absolutely insane, Alex. You guys are really getting taken to the cleaners over there! $8000 for the damptronics, $1200 for the install? What? What are those guys thinking? Can you find another local shop to do the install? Mine charged me $500 for the Damptronic install only. It was cheaper actually to have them install the sways and droplinks at the same time because everything was already taken apart. And it _was_ recommended that a corner balance is done as cannga pointed out. In fact, it's suggested that you do one every time you make a suspension change and for us it's only $100 to do that here. You asked how long to install the Damptronics, I'd say about 5 hours give or take.

    BTW, congratulations on your upcoming wedding, Alex!

    Jul 3, 2008 10:18:43 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: atomic80

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    yup!
    $8k includes fitting though
    still insane

    Jul 3, 2008 11:38:24 PM

    eclou Offline
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Alex, just buy them from AWE. The exchange rate is greatly in your favor now, and AWE are a direct distributor. Cheers on the wedding - but enjoy your cartime now before things change!

    Jul 4, 2008 12:21:07 AM

    chrisNY
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    Reply to: eclou

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    Alex, just buy them from AWE. The exchange rate is greatly in your favor now, and AWE are a direct distributor. Cheers on the wedding - but enjoy your cartime now before things change!



    I've been waiting about 3 months for AWE to get some in and have them install it. I checked a few weeks ago and still nothing. Will have to check again next week.

    Jul 4, 2008 12:30:50 AM

    cannga
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    Reply to: chrisNY

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    One more, PG-13 rated.

    Jul 5, 2008 2:49:26 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Alex, Pounds1410 pounds is about US *$2800*, not US $1800, no?
    So let me get this straight:
    1. You are being quoted the equivalence of US $2800 for installation?
    2. Labor rate in London is about US $200?

    I am learning first hand how frighteningly expensive Europe/England could be. FWIW, here is a post from a US professional installer (Vivid Racing) on 6speedonline regarding this topic of PSS10 installation. Admittedly, his quote is on the low side AFAIK. I think typical installation would run more like 600-700.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    install on the coilovers is about 4 hours. So at 95/hour = $400. Corner balance alignment is $400-$500. But if you are not going to be tracking your car, a normal alignment is $150.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Quote:
    Alex_997TurboRSC said:
    Parr (the CG reseller) want to charge me Pounds1410 (1800 USD) for just the install....
    BTW: that's about 12 hours work based on OPC rates in the UK (which are already crazy high). No way can it take 12 hours to fit just Bilstein's!

    Jul 6, 2008 9:26:50 AM

    Alex_997TT
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    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Fitting: Pounds1400 (~$2800)
    Parts + Fitting: Pounds4000 (~$8000)

    I have been told that this job takes 15 hours and that they are basing this on much experience where you have variable rides heights and getting the balancing just right.

    If I go with sways too then I can get the whole lot for Pounds4200 (~$8200) including a 10% discount. Still: outch!

    OPC labour rates in the UK are about Pounds120 ($280) per hour.

    Jul 7, 2008 3:49:34 PM

    POET
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    ..another great write up on the Pss10. Its certainly has done the biz. Cost all in, here in HK, including wheel alignment..HKD29800(usd3820 using 7.8 to the $)...just under 2k squid...(HKD15.5 to pound)...

    Jul 7, 2008 7:18:27 PM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: POET

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Amex do yourself a favour and order them from the US and save the stupid PoundsPoundsPounds they are asking over here.. That's what I did (from stephen at imagine auto). Then find a P specialist, tell them the ride height you want and get them installed for 500gbps max. Dealers, etc= daylight robbery in the uk.. You could do the whole thing for 2kgbp or 2.5k max incl shipping etc.

    Jul 7, 2008 7:22:16 PM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: POET

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Alex do yourself a favour and order them from the US and save the stupid PoundsPoundsPounds they are asking over here.. That's what I did (from stephen at imagine auto). Then find a P specialist, tell them the ride height you want and get them installed for Pounds500 or so. UK Dealers, etc= daylight robbery.. You could do the whole thing for Pounds2k or Pounds2.5k max incl shipping etc. That's how much it cost me and I did it in london.
    Take the stabilizers as well, they are very good for track. The damptronics are better than stock but still too soft for the track (spring rate is still a bit too soft). You can compensate somehow by stiffening the bars and dial in understeer/oversteer according to your own preference.

    Jul 7, 2008 8:21:14 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Quote:
    GT said:
    ...The damptronics are better than stock but still too soft for the track (spring rate is still a bit too soft



    Ha ha GT, you are my hero! I understand your point.
    Per Bilstein, the 285F/570R spring rates of the PSS10 are for a car primarily used for the streets. They in fact suggest changing to even stiffer springs as an option if the car is to be tracked.

    That said, I actually think (speculate) that most people on this forum wouldn't want the spring any stiffer than this, especially those who drive the car daily, or who plan to take their significant others on trips.

    For those not familiar with what we are talking about, this would bring the spring rates into perspective: AFAIK-correct me if I am wrong, the PSS10 285/570 rates are most likely very close to the rates of stock GT2/GT3 springs (200-300 lbs. lighter cars though).

    Jul 7, 2008 8:35:07 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    A couple things that I didn't mention is that the car looks sportier, more aggressive, more long-legged after the drop, although it's only 20mm. You will scrape a little more, but not by much.
    Second thing is that you would definitely need run the tires at +0 all around (33/39) when you do the tire TPC check. With stock suspension, 33/39 feels extremely soft, to the point that I constantly wanted to go +1 psi. It's no longer the case with PSS10, +1 feels too bouncy.
    Some before and after pictures to see the drop:

    Before:

    Jul 7, 2008 8:36:10 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    After:

    Jul 7, 2008 9:39:25 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Alex_997TT
    Loc: Reading , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Sorry Can but although the two pics show a STUNNING guards red Turbo with P40s, I don't visually see a huge difference myself

    Jul 7, 2008 9:43:52 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: GT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Quote:
    GT said:
    Alex do yourself a favour and order them from the US and save the stupid PoundsPoundsPounds they are asking over here.. That's what I did (from stephen at imagine auto). Then find a P specialist, tell them the ride height you want and get them installed for Pounds500 or so. UK Dealers, etc= daylight robbery.. You could do the whole thing for Pounds2k or Pounds2.5k max incl shipping etc. That's how much it cost me and I did it in london.
    Take the stabilizers as well, they are very good for track. The damptronics are better than stock but still too soft for the track (spring rate is still a bit too soft). You can compensate somehow by stiffening the bars and dial in understeer/oversteer according to your own preference.



    Thanks for the suggestion. My only reservation is that Parr seriously know what they are doing on the suspension setup parameters - they look after all the racing GT3 Cup cars for the UK. Whether or not that knowledge/expertise is worth an extra Pounds1.5k is the big question.

    Either way I think I am going to leave it now until after the honeymoon tour around Europe. I will have a new GT2 to compare my current car to so should be interesting!

    Jul 7, 2008 10:44:32 PM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    I see your point alex but these guys really don't have much to add.. Ride height is the only parameter to play with here.. Hence once you decide on that all they need to do is install them.. Oh and I almost forgot, the other thing is alignment. But then you can use some approximation of the GT3 street specs.
    Cannga I am also aware of the fact that some tuners (mine for one) convert the bilstein kit by changing to harder springs at the front. I also heard they are changing the valves to achieve a different bump setting for the stiffer spring.
    I asked for mine to be converted but my tuner would not do it (they wanted me to buy a whole new kit). What I am experimenting with is different sway bar settings. Also I am now about to install dymags and GT2 seats to reduce sprung/unsprung weight and thus effectively "increasing" the actual spring rate by lightening the car. I heard that many racing teams have found that they can use softer springs when adding those magnesium wheels.
    One interesting observation; I tracked the car 2 times at paul ricard. First time with stock shocks+ techart springs + GT3 bars setting 2 fr/1 back, with normal bridgestone tires. Second time was with bilsteins, same sway settings but with Corsa semi slicks. To my amazement the car felt, I dare say, even softer than before with the bilsteins!! Also understeered excessively..
    So two things to note, first the front/rear bias of the bilsteins are different to stock. I think to get neutral setup I needed to loosen front bar/tighten rear, so move from 2/1 to 2/2 or even 1/2 settings. Second is that the bilsteins are better (and stiffer) than stock but when you increase level of grip (corsa vs crap bridgestones) they are way too soft for track..
    This reminded me of sth I read WR saying recently; a car lapping NR at a certain time say 7.50sec might feel planted and solid. Increase the grip/power and improve times by 2-3 seconds, the same car might feel loose!
    So bottomline, car is better but am still trying to find the best suspension setting..

    Jul 8, 2008 4:59:20 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    $280 per hour?! The cost of living in England is indeed frightening.
    Do what you think is best, but I've not seen any Porsche shop that quotes 15 hours for coilover installation. 15 is not just a little high, it's excessive. To me, they are over-quoting the hours to make up for their level of expertise.
    Agree with your plan to do the installation after the honey moon, IMO Bilstein is not comfortable for passengers on long trips (it's the driver who is grinning from ear to ear).

    OTOH, would you be able to test drive the GT2 both before and after the mod? If you only one chance, I would vote for AFTER-mod comparison because I could tell you right now for me the stock Turbo feels like a luxurious soft sponge next to the GT2.

    Quote:
    Alex_997TurboRSC said:
    Fitting: Pounds1400 (~$2800)
    Parts + Fitting: Pounds4000 (~$8000)

    I have been told that this job takes 15 hours and that they are basing this on much experience where you have variable rides heights and getting the balancing just right.

    If I go with sways too then I can get the whole lot for Pounds4200 (~$8200) including a 10% discount. Still: outch!

    OPC labour rates in the UK are about Pounds120 ($280) per hour.

    Jul 8, 2008 5:09:30 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: POET

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    POET, thanks. I am no longer pursuing a facelift GT3 slot at my dealer. If this Bilstein were not successful, I was ready to switch--only reluctantly so since frankly I cannot do without the monstrous torque of the Turbo. I am extremely happy that the Bilstein and alignment changes have solved so many problems (for me) of the stock Turbo's luxurious level suspension.

    BTW, thought I would mention credit should go to the people who were first with this mod: eclou, atomic80, Larry, etc.

    Quote:
    POET said:
    ..another great write up on the Pss10. Its certainly has done the biz. Cost all in, here in HK, including wheel alignment..HKD29800(usd3820 using 7.8 to the $)...just under 2k squid...(HKD15.5 to pound)...

    Jul 8, 2008 5:12:54 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    A second set of before and after pictures.
    Before:

    Jul 8, 2008 5:23:10 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur *DELETED*

    After lowering:

    Jul 8, 2008 5:24:17 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    After lowering:

    Jul 10, 2008 1:38:06 PM

    percymon
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Alex- i know its already been suggested on the PCGB forum, but Chris Franklin at Centre Gravity is definitely your man, and certainly on par with Parr !

    Suggest you ask Paul Williams (polar964 on pcgb forum) about his experiences with Chris Franklin. He had all his old suspension changed for new Bilstein shocks, not sure about the springs ?, had the car corner weighted, ride height optimised and full geometry set up. Took best part of two days, and finished with the post install test drives in the dark !

    I'm sure Paul will be more than happy to enlighten you on the knowledge and thoroughness of Chris Franklin (udoing/freeing off all suspension adjusters/components, etc, regreasing, adjusting, fixing, protecting etc etc etc.)

    I got quoted Pounds300 for a full geometry set up and corner weighting for my PASM equipped 987. Give them a call, i reckon they would do the full job of install for well under Pounds1k.

    Jul 10, 2008 2:15:46 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: percymon

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    I have emailed them thanks.

    Trouble is they are over 2 hours drive away from me, so would be a real PITA if I needed to leave my car with them for more than 1 day. Saying that, Parr isn't that much better being 1.5 hours away

    Jul 10, 2008 4:04:52 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Better parts quotes at last for the Bilstein's: Pounds2285 (incl vat)

    H&R anti-roll-bar kit (F=26mm,R=24mm): Pounds385 (incl vat)

    Might look at importing from the US but $3450 list price according to Bilstein US site, and then shipping and duty is going to come out about the same. Unsure how you managed Pounds2.5k for everything incl shipping and fitting GT.

    So now I just need to find someone reasonable to fit them

    Jul 11, 2008 5:41:22 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Alex, some dealers/distributors in the US (AWE, www.vividracing.com, etc.) sell the Bilstein not at list price of 3450 at all, but heavily discounted to around US $2500 or so. This would be Pounds1250, nearly half of your quoted price.

    As you mentioned, after tax and shipping, plus the risk associated with buying from a foreign source, whether it's worth it or not, I don't know.

    Quote:
    Alex_997TurboRSC said:
    Better parts quotes at last for the Bilstein's: Pounds2285 (incl vat)

    H&R anti-roll-bar kit (F=26mm,R=24mm): Pounds385 (incl vat)

    Might look at importing from the US but $3450 list price according to Bilstein US site, and then shipping and duty is going to come out about the same. Unsure how you managed Pounds2.5k for everything incl shipping and fitting GT.

    So now I just need to find someone reasonable to fit them

    Jul 11, 2008 5:49:17 PM

    cannga
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Quote:
    Alex_997TurboRSC said:
    Trouble is they are over 2 hours drive away from me, so would be a real PITA if I needed to leave my car with them for more than 1 day. Saying that, Parr isn't that much better being 1.5 hours away



    Wife and her car = **BEST** taxi for dropping Porsche at tuning shops (note plural). On the ride home, you get to discuss and explain why the LATEST mod is absolutely critical and might well be the LAST mod.

    I thought this was why you got married? Kidding, kidding, congrats again. May I ask when the big day is?

    Jul 11, 2008 5:52:20 PM

    GT Offline
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Yup 2500k usd is what I paid as well. Hence alex u can do this for 2.5-3k gbp all-in.

    Jul 11, 2008 6:31:24 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: cannga

    Re: Bilstein PSS10 Damptronics: A Must For The Tur

    Quote:
    cannga said:
    Wife and her car = **BEST** taxi for dropping Porsche at tuning shops (note plural). On the ride home, you get to discuss and explain why the LATEST mod is absolutely critical and might well be the LAST mod.



    How do you think I got my Turbo down to Parr for the CG powerkit fitting?!!!

    Quote:

    I thought this was why you got married? Kidding, kidding, congrats again. May I ask when the big day is?



    Big day is early Aug. Not long now!!! Wedding bands came today and discovered mine is way too big so needs to go back for resizing
     
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