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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo
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Jul 4, 2008 5:46:41 AM
- Crash
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Re: GT1 engine GONE
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
Atzporsche said:
and this is bad?
Like sticking a Ford Focus engine in it.
But seriously, this is bad and is meant to increase Porsche's already massive profits on this car. Oh, how I will like my used MY2009 Turbo...
MY09 997 Turbo is amazing car. Bulletproof engine, updated PTM and PASM, new PCM... Manual with LSD=you are in Turbo heaven!
Jul 4, 2008 2:29:51 PM
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Super Darius
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Jul 4, 2008 2:51:02 PM
- davew (cincy)
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Super Darius
Jul 4, 2008 3:25:20 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Jul 4, 2008 3:29:49 PM
- TB993tt
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Re: GT1 engine GONE
Quote:
TB993tt said:
Is it possible that this car is a turbolook nat aspirated model - Porsche have done it before - but I guess not with the turbo spoiler
Toby,
If my eyes don't deceive me, I think there are turbo's you can see straddling the "new" (997 wet sump) crank case in the leftlanenews pic.
If this is the case, then I wonder how long it will take for tuners to offer a GT1 engine transplant for a power upgrade?
Re: GT1 engine GONE
Quote:
Turbo Al said:
Toby,
If my eyes don't deceive me, I think there are turbo's you can see straddling the "new" (997 wet sump) crank case in the leftlanenews pic.
If this is the case, then I wonder how long it will take for tuners to offer a GT1 engine transplant for a power upgrade?
Al,
I am struggling to make anything out but yes there appear to be the oil catchment tanks either side with the little pipes coming out don't there ?
So are we thinking that the ttS will arrive with GT1 ~500+ as a run out followed by this ?
If this is the case then a ttS could be the last great tunable factory turbo
Jul 4, 2008 4:26:10 PM
- TT Surgeon
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Re: GT1 engine GONE
Toby,
I think Alex is correct that the 997TTS will come out at the end of the 997/997TT cycle and will be a pure GT car with more gadgets, more weight, but with the wet-sump/non-GT1 turbo motor. Certainly not a car for the enthusiasts.
If the 997GT2 is the last car they build with the GT1 motor, then the end of that era has already happened. And I wouldn't put anything past PAG's current management; I wouldn't be shocked if they swapped motors for next year's GT2 production.
I think Alex is correct that the 997TTS will come out at the end of the 997/997TT cycle and will be a pure GT car with more gadgets, more weight, but with the wet-sump/non-GT1 turbo motor. Certainly not a car for the enthusiasts.
If the 997GT2 is the last car they build with the GT1 motor, then the end of that era has already happened. And I wouldn't put anything past PAG's current management; I wouldn't be shocked if they swapped motors for next year's GT2 production.
Re: GT1 engine GONE
Quote:
Turbo Al said:
Toby,
I think Alex is correct that the 997TTS will come out at the end of the 997/997TT cycle and will be a pure GT car with more gadgets, more weight, but with the wet-sump/non-GT1 turbo motor. Certainly not a car for the enthusiasts.
If the 997GT2 is the last car they build with the GT1 motor, then the end of that era has already happened. And I wouldn't put anything past PAG's current management; I wouldn't be shocked if they swapped motors for next year's GT2 production.
Hmmm... This makes it very easy for me. No more having to save for a new 997TT, when a used one has the better engine
.
Jul 4, 2008 7:54:51 PM
- TT Surgeon
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Jul 4, 2008 9:56:37 PM
- devo
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Re: GT1 engine GONE
I am all for a stronger block, true dry sump, etc... but, can someone explain why the next generation tt engine will be less reliable in the long term? Also, if the buyer has no intention of modding the engine, is the new engine any less desiable? I am torn between a new C2S or MY2009 tt.
Jul 4, 2008 10:13:20 PM
- sfguy
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Re: GT1 engine GONE
I guess I'll take the bait. I have a 2008 997 TT Cab (6-speed, sport chrono) that I drive hard and track occasionally. I've no intention of modifying it as 480hp is more than enough for me and I really don't want to lose the 4-year warranty.
I'm planning to replace it in due course with a 2010 997 TT Cab (PDK, sport plus, PCCB, etc., plus all the nice stuff such as BT and iPod that I'm doing after-market right now). I won't modify that one either for the same reasons - primarily warranty.
Now I understand the concern over the loss of the GT1 block if you are planning to modify the car. However I'd be interested in how many of us who are decrying the loss of the GT1-derived engine are actually modifying our cars.
Sure, the GT1-derived engine is tough and modifiable. However for real-world where you aren't modifying the car I'd take a new engine design that has better gas consumption, lower emissions, more low-end torque, more power, less weight, fewer moving parts, and a warranty - even if you track it. A 3.8L 997.2 engine with turbos would be just fine with me, especially as the rest of the system (driveline, PDK, etc.) will be engineered as a total system. Just like with computers, upgrading just one part typically means you need to upgrade many others, and you are often better off just replacing the whole thing with a new balanced system.
Such is the nature of progress. If the new engine costs less (and makes more profit for Porsche) too, all power to them for continually investing in technology and improving the product. I expect to benefit also from this improved technology directly, and probably also in lower prices - if not immediately, then through small price increases in the future (e.g. due to the falling $/EUR exchange rate). It's not a fixed pie of value we are cutting here - technology increases the overall value created.
I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with me. But I'd be interested in the real-world facts rather than an emotional response to losing an old but faithful friend. We need to look forward, not just back... though hang on, what am I saying? We drive a 45-year old car design ;-)
I'm planning to replace it in due course with a 2010 997 TT Cab (PDK, sport plus, PCCB, etc., plus all the nice stuff such as BT and iPod that I'm doing after-market right now). I won't modify that one either for the same reasons - primarily warranty.
Now I understand the concern over the loss of the GT1 block if you are planning to modify the car. However I'd be interested in how many of us who are decrying the loss of the GT1-derived engine are actually modifying our cars.
Sure, the GT1-derived engine is tough and modifiable. However for real-world where you aren't modifying the car I'd take a new engine design that has better gas consumption, lower emissions, more low-end torque, more power, less weight, fewer moving parts, and a warranty - even if you track it. A 3.8L 997.2 engine with turbos would be just fine with me, especially as the rest of the system (driveline, PDK, etc.) will be engineered as a total system. Just like with computers, upgrading just one part typically means you need to upgrade many others, and you are often better off just replacing the whole thing with a new balanced system.
Such is the nature of progress. If the new engine costs less (and makes more profit for Porsche) too, all power to them for continually investing in technology and improving the product. I expect to benefit also from this improved technology directly, and probably also in lower prices - if not immediately, then through small price increases in the future (e.g. due to the falling $/EUR exchange rate). It's not a fixed pie of value we are cutting here - technology increases the overall value created.
I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with me. But I'd be interested in the real-world facts rather than an emotional response to losing an old but faithful friend. We need to look forward, not just back... though hang on, what am I saying? We drive a 45-year old car design ;-)
Re: GT1 engine GONE
Quote:
sfguy said: I've no intention of modifying it as 480hp is more than enough for me and I really don't want to lose the 4-year warranty.
This is where the problem is
( I thought 480hp were enough too, boy was I wrong!!)
I was planning on getting the next TT and modding the heck of it like I did this one, but if this info is true I will stick to my lowly but sturdy modified 07
.
Re: GT1 engine GONE
Reason I like the GT1 engine is I know I can "beat" the engine and not wind up with costly out-of-warrenty repairs later. I can run it like a racing engine, so to speak, when the urge arises and not worry.
Why should Porsche satisfy guys who think like I do? I like everything to be as bulletproof and overbuilt as possible without sacrificing much.
I can imagine a marketing type getting laughed out of the conference room by warning the other M-types, "We're gonna lose the guys who want a bulletproof engine."
Also, used turbos will no longer be considered better bets than used NA cars because of this lesser new engine.
Why should Porsche satisfy guys who think like I do? I like everything to be as bulletproof and overbuilt as possible without sacrificing much.
I can imagine a marketing type getting laughed out of the conference room by warning the other M-types, "We're gonna lose the guys who want a bulletproof engine."
Also, used turbos will no longer be considered better bets than used NA cars because of this lesser new engine.
Re: GT1 engine GONE
I agree that you typically get what you pay for, but, at the present time we are speculating as to the long term reliability of the new block/engine. Hopefully, the new engine will be just as reliable, and one to carry on with radical performance while keeping somewhat green.
Re: GT1 engine GONE
I agree that you typically get what you pay for, but, at the present time we are speculating as to the long term reliability of the new block/engine. Hopefully, the new engine will be just as reliable, and one to carry on with radical performance while keeping somewhat green.
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