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    Jun 20, 2008 4:48:04 PM

    JoeRockhead
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    Reply to: Pentium

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    Pentium said:
    If you are interested, here are the main reasons I took the Scuderia over the GT2:
    - I hate turbos;
    - I really wanted to try the 60ms gearbox;
    - I wanted to find out what do I really love more, a manual gearbox or a paddle-shifter;
    - let's not forget the SOUND, in capitals;
    - and I suspect the Scuderia will hold it's value better than a GT2.

    About people looking at me: I don't give a damn about it! Anyway I am not using the car in town, only "autobahn mode" and track. So for me that it's not an issue.

    After the first 3.000km I suspect the Scuderia it's more of a driver's car than the GT2. I say suspect because I still didn't had a chance to try the new GT2.



    You've mentioned before that you hate turbos. I can understand that sentiment if you are using a 930 Turbo as a reference point. As I've never driven a 997TT or GT2, I don't know the answer to this, but hasn't the VTG come a long way in eliminating the turbo lag associated with older turbo setups?

    Jun 20, 2008 5:15:28 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Kreso I guess it depends where you live - where I live a GT2 is perceived as just another 911 (except for the Porschephiles of course), a Ferrari (no matter whether F430 or Scuderia) gets far more attention



    I was talking about sportscars enthusiast, not about average 997 costumer...

    Jun 20, 2008 5:28:00 PM

    Ziggy
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    1400kg: good to see Ferrari is not overoptimistic about their weight figure anymore.

    I am not in Germany for the next 10 days, could someone take a little bit of time to sum up the main lines of the article?

    Jun 20, 2008 5:41:59 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    The Gt2 is the most expensive 911, the F430 the "entry level" Ferrari. So the perception is naturally different between these two cars.

    The Scuderia received highest grades from SportAuto, the GT2 is slightly faster on track and in the slalom parcour. Pretty impressive considering the weight distribution. Both cars leading the magazine's scoring system, both very impressive.

    The pole for this year's 24h race was below 8:30 min which results in around 7 min flat for the NS itself. That's for a focussed racecar with slick tires and being rated at 570 hp. Put that into equation...

    Jun 20, 2008 5:44:38 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Fully agree with you.

    In my opinion all results below 7.50min achieved by Sport Auto are current state of the art in car technology. Not to mentioned Scud 7.39min or GT2 7.33min...

    Jun 20, 2008 6:46:30 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    .

    Jun 20, 2008 6:48:05 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    ..

    Jun 20, 2008 6:49:36 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    ...

    Jun 20, 2008 6:51:47 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    ....

    Jun 20, 2008 6:54:10 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    .....

    Jun 20, 2008 7:33:18 PM

    Pentium Offline
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Thanks for the scans Kreso! And Go Croatia! (euro2008 soccer championship related...)

    Jun 20, 2008 7:43:28 PM

    Pentium Offline
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Sorry fo repeating myself but I really-really HATE turbos! And I am so worried Ferrari will also be forced to go that way again in the future...

    I drove a 997TT and still I don't like it (engine wise I mean). It is not so much about the lag as you may think... it's more about going from zero torque to full torque in a blink of an eye... at least with the manual, maybe PDK will be better... killing the sound... I don't know but there is something about the whole normal aspirated package, the link between how the power is delivered in sync with the sound that makes me feel more connected to the whole experience of driving.

    Don't get me wrong, I do NOT believe I am a great driver, just average (a 9 minutes at the ring will make me jump for joy), so it's even more important for me to really enjoy the experience since there will always be someone making a better time. I don't like to push the car to their limit, I always pamper the car a little, like I don't press the accelerator pedal suddenly (and I lost time that way), I don't like to drift, I don't like to get in the red zone of the engine, etc... Anyway, that is how I feel.

    Jun 20, 2008 7:48:34 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Pentium

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    Pentium said:
    Thanks for the scans Kreso! And Go Croatia! (euro2008 soccer championship related...)



    Thanks! Tought game...

    Back OT.

    Scud is currently the best and most charismatic sportscar on the market IMHO. Yes, 997 GT2 is awsome car as well. BUT, Scud is the ONE for me...

    Jun 20, 2008 9:38:47 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:I don't know the answer to this, but hasn't the VTG come a long way in eliminating the turbo lag associated with older turbo setups?


    Although modern 911 Turbos have far less lag than 930, they still feel very different from a non-turbo. There is still something non-linear about them (which some people love and some do not).

    The turbocharged car that felt most like a normally aspirated car to me is the BMW 135i/335i. However, this motor only achieves 100hp/L with twin turbos. For big performance (over 125hp/L), a turbo motor will always feel like a turbo motor (for better or worse).

    Jun 20, 2008 10:00:14 PM

    Ziggy
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Thanks for the scans Kreso!

    Also I would not have expected the 430 Scuderia to be slightly faster in acceleration than the GT2 and 97kg lighter!

    Jun 20, 2008 10:39:44 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Thanks, Kreso! Very nice gearing revealed on that chart. If speed is over 30mph (50kph), you never need to have the motor below 6,000rpm

    Jun 21, 2008 7:08:38 AM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Grant,

    Scud is according to Horst von Saurma(if you read between the lines in his really excellent review) even better true sportscar then 997 GT2. Is there bigger price here?!

    I do not know what Nick will say after this Supertest?

    Jun 21, 2008 7:25:44 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    I do not know what Nick will say after this Supertest?



    Will give him one of the biggest headaches of his whole life.

    Jun 21, 2008 10:08:43 AM

    intouch1
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    Reply to: Pentium

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    Pentium said:
    If you are interested, here are the main reasons I took the Scuderia over the GT2:
    - I hate turbos;
    - I really wanted to try the 60ms gearbox;
    - I wanted to find out what do I really love more, a manual gearbox or a paddle-shifter;
    - let's not forget the SOUND, in capitals;
    - and I suspect the Scuderia will hold it's value better than a GT2.

    About people looking at me: I don't give a damn about it! Anyway I am not using the car in town, only "autobahn mode" and track. So for me that it's not an issue.

    After the first 3.000km I suspect the Scuderia it's more of a driver's car than the GT2. I say suspect because I still didn't had a chance to try the new GT2.




    it's a good thing that there are different tastes......
    try the GT2 and get back with your impressions....

    what i find great about the gt2 is that it's half as busy as the scud but comes out to the same performance.

    if you believe in Nring times, the gt2 is clearly on top of the scud....

    Jun 21, 2008 8:00:00 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Grant,

    Scud is according to Horst von Saurma(if you read between the lines in his really excellent review) even better true sportscar then 997 GT2. Is there bigger price here?!

    I do not know what Nick will say after this Supertest?



    I would like to believe that internet forums like ours have influenced HvS to be more even handed in his testing of cars and expressing his views.

    Jun 21, 2008 10:42:37 PM

    lambornima
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Kreso, does SportAuto weigh the cars themselves? if so, how much fuel is in the car when they go to the scales?

    Jun 21, 2008 11:31:29 PM

    Mike2
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    Reply to: lambornima

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    lambornima said:
    Kreso, does SportAuto weigh the cars themselves? if so, how much fuel is in the car when they go to the scales?



    Yes, they do. Weight is with full tank.

    Jun 22, 2008 9:32:29 AM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: lambornima

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    lambornima said:
    Kreso, does SportAuto weigh the cars themselves? if so, how much fuel is in the car when they go to the scales?



    As Mike2 said Sport Auto measure the weight themselves with full tank.

    Jun 22, 2008 3:23:04 PM

    lambornima
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    thank you very much for the info!

    Jun 23, 2008 10:44:26 AM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    The turbocharged car that felt most like a normally aspirated car to me is the BMW 135i/335i. However, this motor only achieves 100hp/L with twin turbos. For big performance (over 125hp/L), a turbo motor will always feel like a turbo motor (for better or worse).



    Torque numbers however are more convincing, even in this modest configuration. There has to be some sacrifice until now, you either lack the delay or impressive hp numbers. However it is surprising to see that the 997 TT still has significant lag, something the GT2 and especially the modified TTs do not display to such an extend.

    The Scuderia came in its lightest configuration, not even featuring a radio system. So customer cars, in their common configuration, might be a tad heavier.

    Jun 23, 2008 11:03:37 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    The Scuderia came in its lightest configuration, not even featuring a radio system.



    In this car you really don't need a radio.

    Jun 23, 2008 11:12:55 AM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    The Scuderia came in its lightest configuration, not even featuring a radio system.



    In this car you really don't need a radio.



    True.

    Jun 23, 2008 5:41:04 PM

    Ziggy
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Torque numbers however are more convincing, even in this modest configuration. There has to be some sacrifice until now, you either lack the delay or impressive hp numbers. However it is surprising to see that the 997 TT still has significant lag, something the GT2 and especially the modified TTs do not display to such an extend.

    The Scuderia came in its lightest configuration, not even featuring a radio system. So customer cars, in their common configuration, might be a tad heavier.



    for once I do not quite agree with you here as:
    - every press article so far as well as MKSGR (see in the sportcar board) report the GT2's lag is greater than that of the 997TT.
    - I am not so sure the Scuderia used in the Supertest is in its slightest configuration, for e.g. you can see the "blade" in the centre of the front spoiler's lower part is not in carbone, so the car is not equipped with every exterior carbone package avilable at least, which otherwise if I am correct and according to Ferrari saves 15kg.

    Jun 23, 2008 7:18:49 PM

    zaf52
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Here are the official results:

    NBR: 7.39
    Doettinger Hoehe: 281kph
    HHR: 1.10,3
    0-100kph: 3.6s
    0-200kph: 11.4s
    Weight (with fuel): 1400kg
    200-0kph: 125.7m
    Airtemp during test: 17*C







    please add the GT2 times to put them into perspective....



    Hehehehe, you only want to have confirmation that you bought the right car

    The GT2 is a bit faster (7.33 and 1.09,7). However, the Scuderia is probably the more exciting car... Thus, both are great cars



    funny, i wonder where my previous post ended...
    i just wanted to re-iterate that we can't get that gt2 is a bit faster than the scuderia since sportauto's tests are
    bogus. porsches are regularly driven around tracks as fast as it gets, wheras nongerman cars are not at all pushed to their limits.

    Jun 23, 2008 7:41:20 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: zaf52

    Re: 430 Scuderia Supertest

    Quote:
    zaf52 said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    intouch1 said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Here are the official results:

    NBR: 7.39
    Doettinger Hoehe: 281kph
    HHR: 1.10,3
    0-100kph: 3.6s
    0-200kph: 11.4s
    Weight (with fuel): 1400kg
    200-0kph: 125.7m
    Airtemp during test: 17*C







    please add the GT2 times to put them into perspective....



    Hehehehe, you only want to have confirmation that you bought the right car

    The GT2 is a bit faster (7.33 and 1.09,7). However, the Scuderia is probably the more exciting car... Thus, both are great cars



    funny, i wonder where my previous post ended...
    i just wanted to re-iterate that we can't get that gt2 is a bit faster than the scuderia since sportauto's tests are
    bogus. porsches are regularly driven around tracks as fast as it gets, wheras nongerman cars are not at all pushed to their limits.



    Since we're talking about bedtime stories, let me tell you a story about the three little piggies and the big, bad wolf...

    intouch1, guess what, no need to go to F-chat anymore .
     
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