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Re: Auto Express first drive *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED*
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What obsession with the push vs pull of the gear lever! Oh my God! It's been discussed here many times already so I apologise for mentioning it again.
But the way some people talk about the intuitive manner of doing the gear change, it is like humans are born with the instinct to change gears on a clutchless system.
I've never driven a serious automated manual before (I suppose my Smart ForTwo doesn't count) but for me my intuition tells me to push to move up a gear because my instinct tells me go up/forward=push and to pull to move down a gear because for me go down=pull back/rein the car.
So there is no right or wrong unfortunately. Maybe a genetic study should be undertaken to differentiate people on the basis of this instinct by race, colour, geographical area etc.
It is also the journalists that try to emulate racers and imagine every car as a racing car or maybe some journalists without the mental capacity to move from one system to another. Obviously if they are not so adaptable then they will have a problem in doing more mundane things in life.
A proviso though! I really hope that when I get my PDK-equiped Porsche and when the those dreaded g forces come under heeeeavy braking, my hand will not be accidentally forced to move forward and push me into a higher gear instead of a lower one and end up being passed before the chicane and losing the race.
What obsession with the push vs pull of the gear lever! Oh my God! It's been discussed here many times already so I apologise for mentioning it again.
But the way some people talk about the intuitive manner of doing the gear change, it is like humans are born with the instinct to change gears on a clutchless system.
I've never driven a serious automated manual before (I suppose my Smart ForTwo doesn't count) but for me my intuition tells me to push to move up a gear because my instinct tells me go up/forward=push and to pull to move down a gear because for me go down=pull back/rein the car.
So there is no right or wrong unfortunately. Maybe a genetic study should be undertaken to differentiate people on the basis of this instinct by race, colour, geographical area etc.
It is also the journalists that try to emulate racers and imagine every car as a racing car or maybe some journalists without the mental capacity to move from one system to another. Obviously if they are not so adaptable then they will have a problem in doing more mundane things in life.
A proviso though! I really hope that when I get my PDK-equiped Porsche and when the those dreaded g forces come under heeeeavy braking, my hand will not be accidentally forced to move forward and push me into a higher gear instead of a lower one and end up being passed before the chicane and losing the race.
Re: Auto Express first drive
Quote:
reginos said:
What obsession with the push vs pull of the gear lever! Oh my God! It's been discussed here many times already so I apologise for mentioning it again.
But the way some people talk about the intuitive manner of doing the gear change, it is like humans are born with the instinct to change gears on a clutchless system.
I've never driven a serious automated manual before (I suppose my Smart ForTwo doesn't count) but for me my intuition tells me to push to move up a gear because my instinct tells me go up/forward=push and to pull to move down a gear because for me go down=pull back/rein the car.
So there is no right or wrong unfortunately. Maybe a genetic study should be undertaken to differentiate people on the basis of this instinct by race, colour, geographical area etc.
It is also the journalists that try to emulate racers and imagine every car as a racing car or maybe some journalists without the mental capacity to move from one system to another. Obviously if they are not so adaptable then they will have a problem in doing more mundane things in life.
A proviso though! I really hope that when I get my PDK-equiped Porsche and when the those dreaded g forces come under heeeeavy braking, my hand will not be accidentally forced to move forward and push me into a higher gear instead of a lower one and end up being passed before the chicane and losing the race.
They also fail to mention that unlike other flappy paddle boxes, you can upshift AND downshift with one hand.
Jun 19, 2008 3:32:58 PM
- SoCal Alan
- Rennteam VIP
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- Loc: Orange County , United States
- Posts: 7268, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 6, 2004
- Reply to: Grant
Re: Auto Express first drive
Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
leveraged said:They also fail to mention that unlike other flappy paddle boxes, you can upshift AND downshift with one hand.
You can do that with the manual too
But you need a left foot also.
Imagine if the world had never seen/experienced a manual transmission before and Porsche just invented it. Can you imagine the uproar on Rennteam with people asking how in the world can we operate a clutch with the left foot and the manual gear shift with the right hand. And how unnatural a series of movements which would be required to go from 1st gear to 2nd gear? And how in the world can we expect to synchronize the lower left part of our body with the upper right of our body. And to do so in an efficient manner as we are traveling at a high rate of speed. Forget about downshifting. How is using a manual transmission, 'natural'. I'm not even going to mention how we have to "push forward" the clutch to shift gears forward under maximum g-forces with our body being pinned to our seats.
Jun 19, 2008 7:29:26 PM
- Grant
- Rennteam VIP
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- Loc: Denver, CO , United States
- Posts: 12585, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
- Reply to: SoCal Alan
Re: Auto Express first drive
Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Imagine if the world had never seen/experienced a manual transmission before and Porsche just invented it. Can you imagine the uproar on Rennteam with people asking how in the world can we operate a clutch with the left foot and the manual gear shift with the right hand. And how unnatural a series of movements which would be required to go from 1st gear to 2nd gear? And how in the world can we expect to synchronize the lower left part of our body with the upper right of our body. And to do so in an efficient manner as we are traveling at a high rate of speed. Forget about downshifting. How is using a manual transmission, 'natural'. I'm not even going to mention how we have to "push forward" the clutch to shift gears forward under maximum g-forces with our body being pinned to our seats.
True - it does seem pretty complicated, but it is fun
Re: Auto Express first drive *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED*
Quote:
reginos said:
POST ACCIDENTALLY DELETED
What obsession with the push vs pull of the gear lever! Oh my God! It's been discussed here many times already so I apologise for mentioning it again.
But the way some people talk about the intuitive manner of doing the gear change, it is like humans are born with the instinct to change gears on a clutchless system.
I've never driven a serious automated manual before (I suppose my Smart ForTwo doesn't count) but for me my intuition tells me to push to move up a gear because my instinct tells me go up/forward=push and to pull to move down a gear because for me go down=pull back/rein the car.
So there is no right or wrong unfortunately. Maybe a genetic study should be undertaken to differentiate people on the basis of this instinct by race, colour, geographical area etc.
It is also the journalists that try to emulate racers and imagine every car as a racing car or maybe some journalists without the mental capacity to move from one system to another. Obviously if they are not so adaptable then they will have a problem in doing more mundane things in life.
A proviso though! I really hope that when I get my PDK-equiped Porsche and when the those dreaded g forces come under heeeeavy braking, my hand will not be accidentally forced to move forward and push me into a higher gear instead of a lower one and end up being passed before the chicane and losing the race.
Nice try. Unfortunately, you individual "intuition" (with your smart car or what not) can not out weight those of countless engineers, race car drivers and decades of experiences gained and accumilated from motorsports.
- = push, + = pull. Period.
Journalists trying to emulate racers or not, there is no denying that the same physical law dictates everyone regardlessly. You never know that one day in a split second emergency when there is no time to think but one's only chance is at the mercy of the physical law, the heavy breaking G that pushes him/her forward and a proper "- = push" gearbox might just save one's life.
And for those who repeatedly compare this to the manual gearbox, I would not even going into an debate with all of you. You are obviously compare apples to oranges. If the manual doesn't have it's inherited shortcomings like one DOES need to fight with G force negotiating with clutch paddles and push-pull movements, then ALL race are would be in H patten manuals then. Sequential > Manual, end of discussion.
Then let's compare PDK with all other SEQUENTIAL gearboxes.
Re: Auto Express first drive *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED*
Quote:
jo2k said:Quote:
reginos said:
POST ACCIDENTALLY DELETED
What obsession with the push vs pull of the gear lever! Oh my God! It's been discussed here many times already so I apologise for mentioning it again.
But the way some people talk about the intuitive manner of doing the gear change, it is like humans are born with the instinct to change gears on a clutchless system.
I've never driven a serious automated manual before (I suppose my Smart ForTwo doesn't count) but for me my intuition tells me to push to move up a gear because my instinct tells me go up/forward=push and to pull to move down a gear because for me go down=pull back/rein the car.
So there is no right or wrong unfortunately. Maybe a genetic study should be undertaken to differentiate people on the basis of this instinct by race, colour, geographical area etc.
It is also the journalists that try to emulate racers and imagine every car as a racing car or maybe some journalists without the mental capacity to move from one system to another. Obviously if they are not so adaptable then they will have a problem in doing more mundane things in life.
A proviso though! I really hope that when I get my PDK-equiped Porsche and when the those dreaded g forces come under heeeeavy braking, my hand will not be accidentally forced to move forward and push me into a higher gear instead of a lower one and end up being passed before the chicane and losing the race.
Nice try. Unfortunately, you individual "intuition" (with your smart car or what not) can not out weight those of countless engineers, race car drivers and decades of experiences gained and accumilated from motorsports.
- = push, + = pull. Period.
Journalists trying to emulate racers or not, there is no denying that the same physical law dictates everyone regardlessly. You never know that one day in a split second emergency when there is no time to think but one's only chance is at the mercy of the physical law, the heavy breaking G that pushes him/her forward and a proper "- = push" gearbox might just save one's life.
And for those who repeatedly compare this to the manual gearbox, I would not even going into an debate with all of you. You are obviously compare apples to oranges. If the manual doesn't have it's inherited shortcomings like one DOES need to fight with G force negotiating with clutch paddles and push-pull movements, then ALL race are would be in H patten manuals then. Sequential > Manual, end of discussion.
Then let's compare PDK with all other SEQUENTIAL gearboxes.
Obviously your personal preference is different from mine and I respect what you like.
However, my preference is based on my own intuition and biomechanics and it is not shaped by journalists and by what goes on in racing, but by what suits me. If people try to emulate racers or take for granted what each and every journalist writes to make a living, they might end up with the wrong fixed ideas.
Jun 20, 2008 5:06:58 AM
- SoCal Alan
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Orange County , United States
- Posts: 7268, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 6, 2004
- Reply to: jo2k
Re: Auto Express first drive *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED*
Quote:
jo2k said:
Journalists trying to emulate racers or not, there is no denying that the same physical law dictates everyone regardlessly. You never know that one day in a split second emergency when there is no time to think but one's only chance is at the mercy of the physical law, the heavy breaking G that pushes him/her forward and a proper "- = push" gearbox might just save one's life.
Under your heavy braking scenario, the PDK would probably downshift for you anyways.
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