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    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    How about this:
    -PDK is replacement for TIP, not for manual(FACT)
    -PDK is aimed more to TIP costumers then to manual costumers(FACT)
    -PDK driver is expected to drive 98% of time in auto mode(be it normal, Sport or Sport Plus)(FACT)
    -PDK is prone to overriding manual gearchange input despite manual mode(FACT-since not only my Motorpresse friend but, two independant journalist experienced that first hand)
    -PDK in auto mode changes gears the way you would never do manually(FACT-sometimes it changes in the middle of fast corner, sometimes two gears down-then up one gear-as PDKs AI do not know what to do. It is gearbox capable of learning do not forget that)



    How about this: Those are your OPINIONS(FACT).

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    FWIW, we're all different. When I take the P car out I like to drive near perfection. It's like a mathematical equation. I consider clutch slip, due to over or under revving or missed shifts, or the slightest jerk a _lapse_ in attention. A missed shot, an imperfect score. In situation like that, when you're tired or bored, your "driver involvement" might as well zero.

    Just my opinion. Very unaesthetic feeling when car and driver can't interact seamlessly. Anything less than that is no good.

    That's why PDK and SMG are so fascinating for me. There's another lever of perfect attention that can be applied to what the car is doing because the mental energy is available. It was not spent on slinging and rowing.

    Different attitudes I guess... .



    Methinks thou dost overthinketh certain activities in life that are better left emotional than mathematical....

    Driving a great sports car is not unlike sex in many ways...

    Are you that obsessive and calculated in the sack?

    And besides, while you're doing all that thinking and obsessive-analysis, I'm passing you with a big grin on my face....

    When you're driving great, there's no time to reflect upon individual aspects... It's a flow man....

    Now I sound like a hippie...

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    CarreraTT said:
    Quote:
    How about this:
    -PDK is replacement for TIP, not for manual(FACT)
    -PDK is aimed more to TIP costumers then to manual costumers(FACT)
    -PDK driver is expected to drive 98% of time in auto mode(be it normal, Sport or Sport Plus)(FACT)
    -PDK is prone to overriding manual gearchange input despite manual mode(FACT-since not only my Motorpresse friend but, two independant journalist experienced that first hand)
    -PDK in auto mode changes gears the way you would never do manually(FACT-sometimes it changes in the middle of fast corner, sometimes two gears down-then up one gear-as PDKs AI do not know what to do. It is gearbox capable of learning do not forget that)



    How about this: Those are your OPINIONS(FACT).



    Your are litte bit too narrow minded PDK fan-that is my personal opinion based on your statement quoted above.

    Did you ever read official Porsche Press release about 997.2?

    NO?

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    i agree that SMg was designed to drive manual most of the times and only when u didnt have ur hands available there was an auto mode. However, PDK is designed that most people would not feel that it is not an auto gear box. the car doesnt roll backwards on a hill and the changes are made soo smoothly, like a perfect auto.
    me personally, i would still drive it in manual 99% of the time but thats not the initial purpose. It is replacing the auto which was never good IMO and now offers a really sporty mode when shifting it manually.
    it is designed to shift smooth and fuel efficient. its a modern gear box that offers comfort and sportiness..
    it is not to be compared to a sequential racing gear box, or a ferrari F1, smg or any of those edgier, rougher and maybe more emotional gear boxes that we have seen...

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    rantanplan said:
    i agree that SMg was designed to drive manual most of the times and only when u didnt have ur hands available there was an auto mode. However, PDK is designed that most people would not feel that it is not an auto gear box. the car doesnt roll backwards on a hill and the changes are made soo smoothly, like a perfect auto.
    me personally, i would still drive it in manual 99% of the time but thats not the initial purpose. It is replacing the auto which was never good IMO and now offers a really sporty mode when shifting it manually.
    it is designed to shift smooth and fuel efficient. its a modern gear box that offers comfort and sportiness..
    it is not to be compared to a sequential racing gear box, or a ferrari F1, smg or any of those edgier, rougher and maybe more emotional gear boxes that we have seen...



    Just one clarification-there are SIX different shifting modes on PDK.

    Standard manual
    Standard D
    Sport manual
    Sport D
    Sport Plus manual
    Sport Plus D

    According to Porsche guys car is fastest on the Ring in Sport Plus D mode...

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    thanks kreso, i knew that but i think my point is underlined by the fact that the car is fastest on the ring in D!!! mode....

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    rantanplan said:
    thanks kreso, i knew that but i think my point is underlined by the fact that the car is fastest on the ring in D!!! mode....



    Did you watch Chris Harris review video on Drivers Republic web site?

    He is talking about Sport mode and there is some clarification about what/how in it...

    Sport Plus D mode is apparently very clever indeed...

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Just one clarification-there are SIX different shifting modes on PDK.

    Standard manual
    Standard D
    Sport manual
    Sport D
    Sport Plus manual
    Sport Plus D

    According to Porsche guys car is fastest on the Ring in Sport Plus D mode...



    Quote:
    Enzo911 said:

    According to Chris Harris in that fantastic DR video...
    8.02 Carrera S MKI Manual (W.Rohrl 7.58, SportAuto 8.05)
    7.58 Carrera S MKII Manual
    7.50 Carrera S MKII PDK Sport Plus+ Pilot Sport Cup

    http://www.drivers-republic.com/videos/index.cfm?VideoID=ca54a1f345754e4295f3e0ef2549af56#videos



    So...
    7.58 Manual
    7.57 PDK M
    7.56 PDK D
    7.55 PDK Sport M
    7.54 PDK Sport D
    7.53 PDK Sport M Michelin Sport Cup
    7.52 PDK Sport D Michelin Sport Cup
    7.51 PDK SportPlus M Sport Cup
    7.50 PDK SportPlus D Michelin SportCup



    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Guys,

    Its nearly 2 weeks now since the 997.5 news officially broke and since then I have been fascinated by the PDK debate. Let me share my thoughts:

    I'm from the UK so have always driven a manual, I feel no need to continue with this to prove something to myself. I track my car regularly and have some good tuition hours, I also drive my car 50 miles everyday round trip to work. My wants from a car are performance, manufacturing quality, style and high end engineering, hence I drive a Porsche. I ordered a facelift C2S back in January and expect delivery in September. I have optioned PDK, SC Plus and Sport PASM with - 20mm and LSD. This is because I want the ultimate sporty ride and the best technology that Porsche make. I am yet to drive the PDK box but will do in a couple of weeks. I have an open mind here believing that Porsche will surely have done a great job. I was surprised to see the stick push / pull in the atypical direction, (I used to do rallying a while back and the sequential boxes were all push down and pull up), but I am not concerned about the buttons / paddles as I am confident of adapting to it quickly. I only intend to use the D selector for traffic jams. I'm very much looking forward to getting the car.

    I'm really surprised by some people's views but everyone needs to drive the PDK box and then decide what works for them - I am confident I will love it - its a 911 for heavens sake and that PDK will become part of our cars for years to come.

    Do you remember how you felt when they dared used water to cool the engine in the 996??

    We'll get a UK meet together in Sept and we can discuss the differences / our preferences over a beer.

    Cheers...

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    mex99 said:
    Guys,

    Its nearly 2 weeks now since the 997.5 news officially broke and since then I have been fascinated by the PDK debate. Let me share my thoughts:

    I'm from the UK so have always driven a manual, I feel no need to continue with this to prove something to myself. I track my car regularly and have some good tuition hours, I also drive my car 50 miles everyday round trip to work. My wants from a car are performance, manufacturing quality, style and high end engineering, hence I drive a Porsche. I ordered a facelift C2S back in January and expect delivery in September. I have optioned PDK, SC Plus and Sport PASM with - 20mm and LSD. This is because I want the ultimate sporty ride and the best technology that Porsche make. I am yet to drive the PDK box but will do in a couple of weeks. I have an open mind here believing that Porsche will surely have done a great job. I was surprised to see the stick push / pull in the atypical direction, (I used to do rallying a while back and the sequential boxes were all push down and pull up), but I am not concerned about the buttons / paddles as I am confident of adapting to it quickly. I only intend to use the D selector for traffic jams. I'm very much looking forward to getting the car.

    I'm really surprised by some people's views but everyone needs to drive the PDK box and then decide what works for them - I am confident I will love it - its a 911 for heavens sake and that PDK will become part of our cars for years to come.

    Do you remember how you felt when they dared used water to cool the engine in the 996??

    We'll get a UK meet together in Sept and we can discuss the differences / our preferences over a beer.

    Cheers...



    Those are exactly my thaughts
    And I have the same past experience as you ( only manual) and drive my P daily in trafic jams and go to the track regularly.
    I picked the same options as you for my FL C2S

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    Enzo911 said:
    Nring: Porsche says 7.50 for Carrera S PDK SporChrono



    In the real world that is 8.00-7.58min in hands of von Saurma.

    Rohrl times are simply said not very objective point of reference(same about Suzuki in Godzilla)...



    Von Saurma did an 8:05 with the MkI 997S-20mm back in 2005, so an 8:00 aprox for the 385HP MKII should sound about right.



    As far as I remeber, 8:05 with MkI 997S with PASM in normal mode. 8:02 with PASM in sport mode; and 7:59 with -20mm sports chassie with LSD.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    You are wrong...

    997S with -20mm/LSD and PCCBs achieved 8.05min Ring time in von Saurma hands.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    pride355 said:
    As far as I remeber, 8:05 with MkI 997S with PASM in normal mode. 8:02 with PASM in sport mode; and 7:59 with -20mm sports chassie with LSD.



    I think you are refering to factory Rorhl times, not Saurma.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    This thread is becoming silly. I think ppl should accept the FACT that like other products in the modern Porsche catalogue, PDK is not the leader amongst it's competitors.

    It's probably good - no more, no less.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Because PDK has been designed as a replacement for the Tip, it has, in my opinion, left itself w/o a defined identity or mission. It is not clearly an enthusiast transmission, and it is overly complex and expensive as a choice for someone who wants/needs an autobox. My wife has a Tip in her 987S and it suits both of us for what we need it to do. She would not choose a $4K PDK transmission, or use its features, and does not want to shift manually. The Tiptronic, for all its faults, was what it was. PDK has to some extent orphaned itself as it is more than most autobox customers need or want, and less than expected from the enthusiast POV. Time and sales will inform Porsche whether the current PDK design formula needs to be re-worked.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:


    Are you that obsessive and calculated in the sack?





    LOL.. Man..., 69bn..., you're good..., you're reeeeal good!



    Not going with the sex analogy, but it would be fun because "slipping out of gear," or "overrevving the downshift" have alot of comedy potential.

    Seriously though, I see driving this car like a game of golf or trap shooting or whatever..., making mistakes takes the joy out of it. Except for fatigue of a long drive or a cop or brain-dead driver distracting you, there's no reason 99% of shifting shouldn't be perfect seamless driver interaction in these "special" cars (not kidding)

    I dunno.


    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    DaveC said:
    Because PDK has been designed as a replacement for the Tip, it has, in my opinion, left itself w/o a defined identity or mission. It is not clearly an enthusiast transmission, and it is overly complex and expensive as a choice for someone who wants/needs an autobox. My wife has a Tip in her 987S and it suits both of us for what we need it to do. She would not choose a $4K PDK transmission, or use its features, and does not want to shift manually. The Tiptronic, for all its faults, was what it was. PDK has to some extent orphaned itself as it is more than most autobox customers need or want, and less than expected from the enthusiast POV. Time and sales will inform Porsche whether the current PDK design formula needs to be re-worked.



    I think you're reading too much into this. Enthusiasts on fora like these tend to over-analyse. I think you'll find that with PDK you can simply switch on and drive away just like you have been doing with the Tiptronic S. It's just that the PDK also offers more alternative ways of exploiting the transmission as well. The fact that you and your wife may not need or use those shouldn't worry you unduly. They are only there if you want them.

    I respectfully think you will find that the ride smoothness and performance will be so much better with a much more instant response. Those are things that everyone will appreciate.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:


    Are you that obsessive and calculated in the sack?





    LOL.. Man..., 69bn..., you're good..., you're reeeeal good!



    Not going with the sex analogy, but it would be fun because "slipping out of gear," or "overrevving the downshift" have alot of comedy potential.

    Seriously though, I see driving this car like a game of golf or trap shooting or whatever..., making mistakes takes the joy out of it. Except for fatigue of a long drive or a cop or brain-dead driver distracting you, there's no reason 99% of shifting shouldn't be perfect seamless driver interaction in these "special" cars (not kidding)

    I dunno.





    Special or not, it's still just a car, and shifting is shifting, and your desire for 99% "perfect" shifts (done not by you) applies a ludicrous standard for shifting adequacy... It's literally like saying "if I write my own book reports for my Literary Classics course, I might only get a 93% grade average on them.. But if I pay this service for my reports, I'll get 100% average, and those novels DESERVE that standard of review!...

    Don't you get it? Part of the satisfaction of driving is the pride of knowing you did it yourself... Where's the pride in flipping the paddles... That you were successful enough to afford the car and the option?

    Sometimes, when you've gotta live with the results, you get a professional to do it for you, i.e. build a deck, tailor a suit...

    I very much understand the logic by which others are using to justify their desire for the PDK... I get their posts completely... But your "the car deserves perfect shifts all the time" thing totally baffles me... I honestly don't see how you make it out of the driveway, given your obsession with perfection (and dirty wheels ).

    I mean, c'mon, do you really hit every apex perfectly as you're winging through the supermarket parking lot? Are you rev-matching the downshift as you pull into the Shell station? Are you knocking-out beautiful lightning-fast no-slip upshifts as you follow the UPS truck, with the clapped-out Dominos Pizza delivery guy tucked in behind you?

    You're taking driving a Porsche to goof-ball extremes... You're going to cause me to have to pull mine out, and video tape a bunch of gawdawful mis-cues and shifting gaffs, and then I'll post 'em, and then picture you with your hands on the sides of your head Home-Alone-style shrieking NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! IT'S A PORSCHE!!!!!!!

    (Sorry, got carried away with the humor... But really, lighten-up, get over it, it's shifting.... The car can take it, it's not a fragile little flower...)

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:


    You're taking driving a Porsche to goof-ball extremes...



    No..., I just do not like sloppy driving; I like precision.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:


    You're taking driving a Porsche to goof-ball extremes...



    No..., I just do not like sloppy driving; I like precision.



    Fair enough, but the best drivers drive precisely without fixating upon what they are doing... It flows, it's natural, it's a physical blend.

    You seem to fixate, to micro analyze your every move and result. You'll never get there from here. And for your personality, you may indeed prefer the PDK. That I would be able to understand.

    In any case, we've beaten this dead horse into sausage stuffing...

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    69bossnine said:

    You seem to fixate, to micro analyze your every move and result. You'll never get there from here. And for your personality, you may indeed prefer the PDK. That I would be able to understand.




    Please..., the erroneous amateur psychiatric evaluation is slightly annoying. Thanks though for trying to help.


    Re: PDK Test & Review

    The problem is the auto mode in PDK. It needs to go away! For you guys here in the US, think twice, this auto mode will now enable your wifes/girlfriends to drive your car and this is not good! While my GF would love to drive my car she, like 99% of US women, can not handle the manual gearbox. So I have peace by saying; "Well if you want to learn to drive stick you could drive it", discussion is then over and my car stays in pristine shape with no food, coffecups or makeup littering the interior. Not to mention dents & paint damage.
    So think twice about ordering the option that makes your car into the family car which will be used for latte runs.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    Moppe said:
    The problem is the auto mode in PDK. It needs to go away! For you guys here in the US, think twice, this auto mode will now enable your wifes/girlfriends to drive your car and this is not good! While my GF would love to drive my car she, like 99% of US women, can not handle the manual gearbox. So I have peace by saying; "Well if you want to learn to drive stick you could drive it", discussion is then over and my car stays in pristine shape with no food, coffecups or makeup littering the interior. Not to mention dents & paint damage.
    So think twice about ordering the option that makes your car into the family car which will be used for latte runs.



    Whoa...that's one sort of mindset for sure.

    I, for one, would LOVE to see my wife commanding a PDK GT3 (when I can afford one) and feel how amzaing piece of work of art that is (occasionally). That beauty(wife) w/ beast (GT3) scene would undoubtly be very sexy.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    jo2k said:
    Quote:
    Moppe said:
    The problem is the auto mode in PDK. It needs to go away! For you guys here in the US, think twice, this auto mode will now enable your wifes/girlfriends to drive your car and this is not good! While my GF would love to drive my car she, like 99% of US women, can not handle the manual gearbox. So I have peace by saying; "Well if you want to learn to drive stick you could drive it", discussion is then over and my car stays in pristine shape with no food, coffecups or makeup littering the interior. Not to mention dents & paint damage.
    So think twice about ordering the option that makes your car into the family car which will be used for latte runs.



    Whoa...that's one sort of mindset for sure.

    I, for one, would LOVE to see my wife commanding a PDK GT3 (when I can afford one) and feel how amzaing piece of work of art that is (occasionally). That beauty(wife) w/ beast (GT3) scene would undoubtly be very sexy.



    Uh, if that bothers you so much you could just get a manual. I don't think anyone really cares that much that their significant other or other "women" can drive their car.

    I like the idea that my girlfriend could drive it, especially if I decide to have another glass of wine, etc.

    Re: PDK Test & Review

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    69bossnine said:

    You seem to fixate, to micro analyze your every move and result. You'll never get there from here. And for your personality, you may indeed prefer the PDK. That I would be able to understand.




    Please..., the erroneous amateur psychiatric evaluation is slightly annoying. Thanks though for trying to help.





    How is it erroneous? Your body of work is archived on this forum...

    Wife drives mine

    Drives it well, and knows the no food and drink rule. That means I won't have to compromise on the next one with the "Poor Driver Klutz" auto-gearbox and can stay with stick shift.

    Re: Wife drives mine

    Another interesting difference between BMW SMG and Porsche PDK is that the BMW system defaults to Manual everytime you start up and the Porsche system looks to me like (due to the stick layout) that it will default to auto mode!

    Re: Wife drives mine

    My only point of reference regarding PDK is my Audi A3 DSG.

    DSG is fine, and I liked it at first.

    2 years later, if I could only change one thing about the car, it would be to have a 6-speed stick.

    For me, I think PDK would be a novelty at first, but the fun would quickly wear off and I would be left wishing for a manual again.

    Re: Wife drives mine

    Quote:
    TX 911 said:
    My only point of reference regarding PDK is my Audi A3 DSG.

    DSG is fine, and I liked it at first.

    2 years later, if I could only change one thing about the car, it would be to have a 6-speed stick.

    For me, I think PDK would be a novelty at first, but the fun would quickly wear off and I would be left wishing for a manual again.



    I got bored of DSG after just 1 hour of driving. Then it just left it in automatic thereafter.

    PDK is definitely a replacement for Tiptronic and not for guys who like the driving involvement of a manual.

    Re: Wife drives mine

    Geez..., this PDK v. manual debate is going to go like WW1 trench warfare. Too bad.

    Is F1 faster and more fun to watch since PDK?

    My bet cars are not faster simply because the shifts are faster. It's also because the driver has more mental energy (more attention) to spend on paying attention to what's happening to the car and road.

    Now, if you have PDK in your car, besides going a bit faster don't you think your "involvement" with the car and road will get more satisfying? Sure you can just get lazy or make yourself bored.

    Would be interesting to ask F1 drivers if they're "less involved" with driving since servo-assisted gearboxes/clutchs. I bet they will unanimosuly say it has made their job _MORE_ challenging, not less.

    So you can say F1 guys are "less involved" because their car are equipped with "PDK?" My bet that's gonna turn out to be a freeking absurd statement.

    BTW, Guys also complain about exhaust systems being boring. Guess what? An extremely fast perfectly rev-matched up- or downshift can almost produce an orgasm. I don't think anybody can say that about rowing with a manual; too much work involved.


     
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