Jun 17, 2008 11:08:29 AM
Quote:
Adam2S said:
As you slow down your body is thrown forward, making the most natural movement possible to push forward on the stick to change down.
As you accelerate you are thrown back into the seat making the most natural movement possible to pull back on the stick to change up.
Jun 17, 2008 11:38:38 AM
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
How about this:
-PDK is replacement for TIP, not for manual(FACT)
-PDK is aimed more to TIP costumers then to manual costumers(FACT)
-PDK driver is expected to drive 98% of time in auto mode(be it normal, Sport or Sport Plus)(FACT)
-PDK is prone to overriding manual gearchange input despite manual mode(FACT-since not only my Motorpresse friend but, two independant journalist experienced that first hand)
-PDK in auto mode changes gears the way you would never do manually(FACT-sometimes it changes in the middle of fast corner, sometimes two gears down-then up one gear-as PDKs AI do not know what to do. It is gearbox capable of learning do not forget that)
So, PDK or manual? If you are true sportscar enthusiast and really like total control then only one choice-manual.
On the other hand if you will drive your 997 around traffic a lot and like less demanding approach PDK is excellent choice.
Just one thing-PDK is new. How reliable will it be? Two press cars already experinced some problems(PDK override manual input after spirited driving and even restarting the car did not solve the problem)...
Jun 17, 2008 11:44:54 AM
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
How about this:
-PDK is replacement for TIP, not for manual(FACT)
-PDK is aimed more to TIP costumers then to manual costumers(FACT)
-PDK driver is expected to drive 98% of time in auto mode(be it normal, Sport or Sport Plus)(FACT)
-PDK is prone to overriding manual gearchange input despite manual mode(FACT-since not only my Motorpresse friend but, two independant journalist experienced that first hand)
-PDK in auto mode changes gears the way you would never do manually(FACT-sometimes it changes in the middle of fast corner, sometimes two gears down-then up one gear-as PDKs AI do not know what to do. It is gearbox capable of learning do not forget that)
So, PDK or manual? If you are true sportscar enthusiast and really like total control then only one choice-manual.
On the other hand if you will drive your 997 around traffic a lot and like less demanding approach PDK is excellent choice.
Just one thing-PDK is new. How reliable will it be? Two press cars already experinced some problems(PDK override manual input after spirited driving and even restarting the car did not solve the problem)...
Quote:
How about this:
-PDK is replacement for TIP, not for manual(FACT)
-PDK is aimed more to TIP costumers then to manual costumers(FACT)
-PDK driver is expected to drive 98% of time in auto mode(be it normal, Sport or Sport Plus)(FACT)
-PDK is prone to overriding manual gearchange input despite manual mode(FACT-since not only my Motorpresse friend but, two independant journalist experienced that first hand)
-PDK in auto mode changes gears the way you would never do manually(FACT-sometimes it changes in the middle of fast corner, sometimes two gears down-then up one gear-as PDKs AI do not know what to do. It is gearbox capable of learning do not forget that)
Jun 17, 2008 12:12:56 PM
Jun 17, 2008 12:33:49 PM
Jun 17, 2008 12:39:17 PM
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
But just because we do it one way, it doesn't mean it's better or right, just different IMHO. It will just take a little getting used to.
Jun 17, 2008 12:50:37 PM
Quote:
Adam2S said: PDK should be the only option IMHO,
Jun 17, 2008 2:14:01 PM
Jun 17, 2008 2:14:56 PM
Jun 17, 2008 2:21:12 PM
Quote:
MMD said:
Funny because I have a P-car guy acquaintance who tracks his car occasionally and yet he still can't shift (by my definition). When I rode in his car there's always a sight jerk in his up-shifting and he couldn't seem to rev-match perfectly on the easiest downshift; there's always clutch slip. I let him drive my car once and that was the last time because my clutch and tranny was getting a workout.
This leads me to wonder how many "manual guys" get perfectly smooth rev-matched shifts each and every time. I consider it essential to shift _perfectly_ everytime or else you're just abusing the car.
Sad to think those guys might never know the thrill of an strong and positive, extremely fast, perfectly rev-matched up and down shift from a PDK gearbox (not a slush-bucket); yet my bet is they claim "driver involvement" is the reason they would never go for PDK. I'm talking non-professional drivers and non-weekly track rats here.
Jun 17, 2008 2:30:39 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:
Adam2S.... If total performance were the only measuring stick, if technological advancements were only graded by stopwatches and spec sheets, then we'd all be riding motorcycles and laughing at the barbarian dolts driving 4-wheel cars...
You just don't get it.. There's a tipping-point, a point of balance where technology and driver-involvement are in harmony... Many drivers, MANY, feel that taking the clutching away from the human left leg tips that balance to the negative... The slight gain in performance is outweighed by the loss of involvement, skill and control.
There's no wrong or right, but everyone's got their tipping point when it comes to "technology" robbing bits and pieces of the driving experience. Would you enjoy a car that does IT ALL for you? After all, it'd be faster than you could ever accomplish yourself, and a technological marvel... Is that what would give you a stiffy?? Then alright, knock yourself out...
But for us do-it-yourselfers, you can take the PDK and have your little geek-races with it, twiddling your little paddles and shrieking in the pleasure of how fast your car accomplishes the details FOR YOU. It's like driving for the athletically challenged, technology to assist those who can't walk and chew gum...
I like technology when it improves my overall driving experience. But when it HIJACKS the experience, because it can do it better/faster than me.... Well, I may as well just be sitting on the side of the road watching robots race at that point.
Everybody has their tipping-point with technology, and if you enjoy driving the PDK, more power to you.
But the demise of the manual tranny was predicted over 75 years ago, and it never happened... I still don't see it happening... Eliminate true-manuals from the lineup, and see what happens to PAG...
Jun 17, 2008 2:41:22 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:
BTW, all cars eventually wear out, and PDK's are KNOWN to wear out their clutches faster than even poorly-driven manuals... So I fail to see the point. I can't tell if you're endorsing PDK, or not.
Jun 17, 2008 2:42:46 PM
Jun 17, 2008 2:45:42 PM
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
69bossnine said:
BTW, all cars eventually wear out, and PDK's are KNOWN to wear out their clutches faster than even poorly-driven manuals... So I fail to see the point. I can't tell if you're endorsing PDK, or not.
I usually agree fully with you but, this time you are wrong or you mistaken PDK(DCT) for sequential manual. Clutches on DCT transmission should last much longer then clutch on manual(or specially sequential manual!). For example clutches on M3s M-DKG should last at least 150.000km according to BMW. These are wet clutches and they are build to last.
Jun 17, 2008 2:47:30 PM
Quote:
MMD said:
This leads me to wonder how many "manual guys" get perfectly smooth rev-matched shifts each and every time. I consider it essential to shift _perfectly_ everytime or else you're just abusing the car.
Quote:
MMD said:Sad to think those guys might never know the thrill of an strong and positive, extremely fast, perfectly rev-matched up and down shift from a PDK gearbox (not a slush-bucket); yet my bet is they claim "driver involvement" is the reason they would never go for PDK. I'm talking non-professional drivers and non-weekly track rats here.
Jun 17, 2008 2:49:55 PM
Jun 17, 2008 2:54:48 PM
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
Enzo911 said:
Nring: Porsche says 7.50 for Carrera S PDK SporChrono
In the real world that is 8.00-7.58min in hands of von Saurma.
Rohrl times are simply said not very objective point of reference(same about Suzuki in Godzilla)...
Quote:
temm said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKkIUUp6epE&feature=related
Since Porsche is using the forward - down, back - up on the race cars there must be something to it, don't ya think
Jun 17, 2008 3:12:31 PM
Quote:
69bossnine said:
Adam2S.... If total performance were the only measuring stick, if technological advancements were only graded by stopwatches and spec sheets, then we'd all be riding motorcycles and laughing at the barbarian dolts driving 4-wheel cars...
Jun 17, 2008 3:16:31 PM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
Enzo911 said:
Nring: Porsche says 7.50 for Carrera S PDK SporChrono
In the real world that is 8.00-7.58min in hands of von Saurma.
Rohrl times are simply said not very objective point of reference(same about Suzuki in Godzilla)...
Von Saurma did an 8:05 with the MkI 997S-20mm back in 2005, so an 8:00 aprox for the 385HP MKII should sound about right.
Jun 17, 2008 3:51:03 PM
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
why would normal shifting by the average driver be abuse? you may have to revise that idea of thinking that you have to shift to perfection every single time or you are abusing the tranny, that is nonsense, otherwise every manual gearbox in the world gets abused
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
Enzo911 said:
Nring: Porsche says 7.50 for Carrera S PDK SporChrono
In the real world that is 8.00-7.58min in hands of von Saurma.
Rohrl times are simply said not very objective point of reference(same about Suzuki in Godzilla)...