Jun 14, 2008 1:24:55 PM
- cdixon
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
Language: English
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Jun 19, 2008 8:43:21 PM
- JAG007
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Jun 19, 2008 10:31:41 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: Invited to drive Mk2 997 PDE Centre Silverston
I got the invite the other day too from my local OPC.
All these endless facelift discussions however have left me pretty numb to the whole thing. So I don't think I will bother going. The new center itself is actually more interesting.
I am a 'manual' guy anyway and even with the new motor it's still half the torque of my beast. So sadly not a lot to get excited about from my point of view.
All these endless facelift discussions however have left me pretty numb to the whole thing. So I don't think I will bother going. The new center itself is actually more interesting.
I am a 'manual' guy anyway and even with the new motor it's still half the torque of my beast. So sadly not a lot to get excited about from my point of view.
Jul 8, 2008 8:41:49 AM
- easy_rider911
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Jul 8, 2008 10:33:55 PM
- easy_rider911
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Easy Rider at PDE Silverstone
Easy Rider at PDE Silverstone
Hi Guys 
Just got back from the PDE at Silverstone. Had a really enjoyable day out. So, here's my report:
My wife and I drove there mid morning. The weather forecast was for occasional light rain with some sunny intervals ... and that's exactly what we got 
Arriving at the main entrance to the Silverstone race track, we could see that various temporary facilities used for the British F1 Grand Prix were still being dismantled. Entering the main gate, we followed the perimeter road round the GP circuit to the Porsche Driving Experience Centre. It is located adjacent to the race track.
It's a very modern facility, as you can see from this photo.
Jul 8, 2008 10:34:54 PM
- easy_rider911
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Jul 8, 2008 10:38:40 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Mk2 997 - PDE Silverstone 8.7.08
The first step was to register at reception. I had to present my drivers licence and photocard ID. I was asked to complete a Driver Questionnaire and Indemnity Agreement. My wife and I were provided with ID passes with our names printed on them hanging from rather attractive Porsche lanyards.
Entering the new Centre, we headed straight upstairs to get some lunch.
Entering the new Centre, we headed straight upstairs to get some lunch.
Jul 8, 2008 10:49:16 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Mk2 997 - PDE Silverstone 8.7.08
The Centre is on 2 floors. Downstairs, there's a central area where various cars were on display. There is also a small cinema where 3 videos were being screened. The first video was a 11 min video on the History of Porsche Motorsport. There was a 6 min video on 'Inner Strength' (i.e. the new changes in the Mk2 997) and a 4 min video containing a speech by Ferry Porsche on the philosophy and principles of Porsche.
There was also a tour of the Centre every hour and an larger auditorium where a video presentation was screened on the detail of the Mk2 997.
There was also a Human Performance room to test reaction times, health and fitness of drivers.
On the upper floor, there was a cafe/restaurant. The quality of the food was very good. I must add that all the staff in all parts of the Centre were courteous, helpful and attentive. They were very keen to keep guests happy and went out of their way to achieve this.
Here's a photo of a Mk2 997 C2S on display:
There was also a tour of the Centre every hour and an larger auditorium where a video presentation was screened on the detail of the Mk2 997.
There was also a Human Performance room to test reaction times, health and fitness of drivers.
On the upper floor, there was a cafe/restaurant. The quality of the food was very good. I must add that all the staff in all parts of the Centre were courteous, helpful and attentive. They were very keen to keep guests happy and went out of their way to achieve this.
Here's a photo of a Mk2 997 C2S on display:
Jul 8, 2008 10:50:23 PM
- easy_rider911
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Jul 8, 2008 10:50:57 PM
- easy_rider911
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Jul 8, 2008 10:53:16 PM
- easy_rider911
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Jul 8, 2008 10:55:32 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Jul 8, 2008 10:56:10 PM
- easy_rider911
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Jul 8, 2008 11:06:07 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Mk2 997 - PDE Silverstone 8.7.08
I had been booked on the 3pm session and my 1 hour drive was due to commence at 3.45pm. The drive consisted of (1) trying 3 different cars for 2 laps each on the 'Handling Circuit', (2) about 3 attempts on skid testing on the 'Kick Plate' surface, (3) about 5 attempts down the 'Ice Hill' and lastly, (4) 2 laps of the 'Low friction handling circuit'.
It was a lot of fun but all too brief. Driving for only 1 hour is only a taste of what these cars are like.
I personally got to drive a Mk2 Carrera S (with manual transmission and PCCBs), a Mk1 Carrera with Tiptronic S and a Mk2 Carrera S with PDK. Luckily I did exercises (2), (3) and (4) all in the PDK car so it gave me a good opportunity to check it out (but more on that later). Here's a photo of the various cars all lined up and ready to go...
It was a lot of fun but all too brief. Driving for only 1 hour is only a taste of what these cars are like.
I personally got to drive a Mk2 Carrera S (with manual transmission and PCCBs), a Mk1 Carrera with Tiptronic S and a Mk2 Carrera S with PDK. Luckily I did exercises (2), (3) and (4) all in the PDK car so it gave me a good opportunity to check it out (but more on that later). Here's a photo of the various cars all lined up and ready to go...
Jul 8, 2008 11:07:03 PM
- easy_rider911
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Jul 8, 2008 11:09:21 PM
- easy_rider911
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Jul 8, 2008 11:11:00 PM
- easy_rider911
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Jul 8, 2008 11:18:39 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Mk2 997 - PDE Silverstone 8.7.08
The driving lasted exactly 1 hour. After that, I headed back inside the PDE Centre where my wife and I ate an early supper. Delicious Miso Salmon, Prawn Tempura, Sirloin Beef Steak, fresh-baked cookies, Coffee Eclairs etc etc. You get the idea - the food was superb.
We then watched all the videos that I mentioned above. Then we did the reaction tests and chatted to various Porsche staff.
Here is a photo of all the brochures I have from the day and the ID passes/lanyards they issued us:
We then watched all the videos that I mentioned above. Then we did the reaction tests and chatted to various Porsche staff.
Here is a photo of all the brochures I have from the day and the ID passes/lanyards they issued us:
Jul 8, 2008 11:28:53 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Mk2 997 - PDE Silverstone 8.7.08
Before I write about my impressions on the Mk2, a little anecdote about what happened to me on arrival. When we parked at the PDE Centre, I noticed some fresh engine oil on my rear wheel arch and bumper. I mentioned this to the Reception staff, they spoke to one of the Driving Instructors, he spoke to a Technician who took my car at once to a Service area. He checked the car over thoroughly and arranged for a complimentary valet to get rid of the engine oil stains.
Fortunately, there was nothing at all wrong with my car. Apparently I had driven through a small puddle of engine oil on the perimeter road within the Silverstone race track vicinity. Someone else's car had inadvertently dropped a lot of engine oil on the road surface there. The Chief Instructor personally came to reassure me that there was nothing at all wrong with my car and that I could relax and enjoy the PDE session without any need to worry. They went above and beyond great customer service. Really impressive customer care
Fortunately, there was nothing at all wrong with my car. Apparently I had driven through a small puddle of engine oil on the perimeter road within the Silverstone race track vicinity. Someone else's car had inadvertently dropped a lot of engine oil on the road surface there. The Chief Instructor personally came to reassure me that there was nothing at all wrong with my car and that I could relax and enjoy the PDE session without any need to worry. They went above and beyond great customer service. Really impressive customer care
Jul 8, 2008 11:54:34 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Mk2 997 - PDE Silverstone 8.7.08
So, now, what were my impressions of the new Mk2 997?
We've all read various magazine articles on what new changes have been introduced. So many journalists have written 'first impressions' articles that really only summarise what the changes are without really going into any real depth or analysis on how the new car actually feels like to drive.
So, based on the brief time I had in the Mk2 car, this is what I thought...
Visually, I liked the new look. The LED lights at the rear look attractive and the front LED daytime running lights have a very modern appearance (when operating). It's a look we have seen on recent Audi models for some time now.
The larger wing mirrors are less attractive than those on the Mk1 but I guess PAG had no choice in this. I'm not a huge fan of the new design of front air intakes either. I do however like the revised design of the rear bumper/diffuser/exhausts.
As for the Mk2's interior, the new PCM 3.0 is much less cluttered. I tried using the new PCM and found it generally very easy to operate. I also liked the new touchscreen monitor. What I didn't like was the black plastic of the new PCM. It's quite cheap and IMO worse than the volcano grey plastic on the Mk1. Apart from the PCM and the PDK steering wheel, I don't recall any other interior changes.
More importantly now - driving impressions...
I have to say, the first car I drove was a manual transmission Mk2 C2S. The gearbox felt identical to the Mk1 i.e. it was superb. I noticed that the car sounded noticeably quieter on the inside even at quite high speed/revs. The Mk2 Carrera and Carrera S both have completely new engines. They may be faster, more economical, less polluting etc but they have lost some of the aural sensation in the process. None of the cars I drove had PSE but I would assume that PSE will correct the 'aural deficit'
I realise that the paper statistics state that the Mk2 C2S is 30 bhp more powerful than the Mk1 C2S (385bhp vs 355bhp & 420Nm vs 400Nm torque). However, I must say, I couldn't notice a significant difference in performance, acceleration etc. The difference is small and I would assume one needs to be testing the car at or near the limit to discern the performance difference.
All in all, from an engine performance standpoint, the car felt and performed very similarly given that I could not test the car so hard as to discern the difference. However, no one can dispute that these cars are an improvement on the Mk1 models in terms of engine performance. The Mk1 models were already superb cars to begin with but the Mk2 models clearly improve on that even though one has to be really pushing it in order to see the difference.
Jul 9, 2008 12:27:31 AM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Mk2 997 - PDE Silverstone 8.7.08
The big new change is obviously PDK. I was totally open to this new technology. I have never liked the Tiptronic S transmission but I went there today hoping and expecting that PDK would be the best transmission of them all....
I was surprised but relieved that things I had feared would be negatives were not as bad as I thought they would be but sadly I found that things I had expected to be fine were not.
Allow me to explain. I had feared that the PDK toggle controls on the steering wheel would be 'counter-intuitive'. I have to say - I didn't find this to be the case. Pushing the buttons forward with one's thumbs (to move up a gear) was easy and came naturally to me. BUT I don't have a habit of using paddle shifters so I don't have an 'opposite' habit to counteract. If I were used to the opposite then I might think differently - as others have stated already.
Likewise, pulling the toggles back (to move down a gear) was also easy and intuitive to me.
I hadn't been expecting this to be the case but was pleasantly surprised and relieved at this.
However, I disliked the fact that the toggles are steering wheel mounted. It is fine when driving in a straight line - one's hands are in the right position to operate the toggles. What I really disliked is operating the toggles WHILE turning. One's hands may be in a position on the wheel that makes it inconvenient to access the toggles. The only option I found was to let go of the steering wheel with hand in order to operate one of the toggles. Now, the time when I least like letting go of the steering wheel to do this is during turning. One loses fine control during turning that way.
This is a design flaw that applies equally to the Tiptronic S toggles too.
The other thing I disliked about the PDK steering wheel was the material used for the 3 spokes. It felt like a kind of metal. But I didn't find it 'tactile' enough. Not nice to touch. I also found the PDK wheel aesthetically ugly.
This is my subjective perspective on the PDK 'user interface'.
What about performance? Well, I didn't like the lack of control in the fully automatic mode. It's obviously a massive improvement on the Tiptronic S but I like to choose when (and at what rpm) gear changes are made. So, the fully automatic mode may do a great job but it's not right for me. It will please those used to automatics but not those used to the control of a manual transmission.
Regarding the manual mode, when using the toggles to move up or down a gear, there is virtually no delay in gear changes in the manual mode. It seems like the engine note hardly has time to change so it's quite hard to 'hear' the gear change. The way you can tell is that the car is accelerating/decelerating differently or that the number on the instrument display is different. Otherwise, it is a strangely 'detached' experience of changing gear.
What about acceleration? Here, PDK in manual mode was hard to fault. I was able to go relentlessly up the gears accelerating hard in each gear with much less effort and delay than when driving a manual car. The PDK mechanism can change gear better than I could by far. That makes it faster at gear changes (i.e. more efficient) but that doesn't mean it is better or more enjoyable.
What about driver interaction and pleasure? Well, I suppose a person who is used to an automatic car will love PDK. It's fast, easy and does a perfect job of swift gear changes. To someone like me who loves driving a manual car, it just left me cold. I have tried not to describe the PDK/DSG experience as a 'PlayStation' experience in the past. However, I have to say, having had first hand experience of it, that this was precisely how it felt. Changing gear by pressing buttons felt like I was operating some electronic device like a remote control or a games console controller. The PDK then translated my inputs into mechanical actions but I felt utterly cut off from that process. I was merely a button presser/pusher. It was a passionless, uninvolving process that made me feel like I was largely irrelevant to the gear choosing/shifting process.
Why? Well, you have to remember that even if the car is in manual mode, if you select a gear that the system doesn't like, it won't accept it and worse still, it will make gear changes of its own anyway in addition to any gear changes that you want it to make. So the manual mode doesn't give full control. It gives one only a partial role in gear change choices.
I have tried to explain my reaction to using PDK as best I can. I hope I have not described any sensation I have had inaccurately. If I have done so, I can only apologise. I also hope you don't mind that I have really analysed the PDK user-interface experience as thoroughly as I have. BUT, I did this because it's clearly so important to so many of us.
I'm a typical car enthusiast who happens to enjoy his Porsche. I am not a Porsche man who cannot see fault with anything that emanates from Zuffenhausen.
I am also not a professional test driver nor am I a track day junkie. So these are just my humble impressions (based on my driving abilities) that I have tried to convey as accurately as my written ability allows. I did say that I wasn't impressed by one of the 'first impressions' articles posted here on Rennteam so I have tried to do what I was hoping that article would do.
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