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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
MMD said:BTW, I think the Carrera now looks like a cute cross-eyed froggy. Nice work with those fog lamp placements! LOL.
I think the second light are the optional adaptive headlights (ie. swivel when you turn).
As for the rear light shape, a conspiracy theorist might suggest it's to make upgrading the 997.1 harder so you consider the new car instead.
Jun 12, 2008 2:39:05 AM
- Atzporsche
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
Heist said:
I thought over time I'd warm up to the new tailight design..
I still haven't.
Frankly, it "pulls down" the corners of the car and doesn't flow well with the rest of the design.
A 911 is about subtle compound curves and smooth humps. Sharp, angular lines that look like carry overs from a Japanese design just don't do it for me.
what are you talking about??!! the first lights seemed much more sharp and less flowing with the design.
These new light really make the rear flow IMHO
They tie up the hips above and the lower bumper parts underneath really effectively, while also making the car look updated and modern.
I for one really like it, and so will you guys
Jun 12, 2008 2:57:18 AM
- Modrocket_stereo
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
I think the reflectors on the tail light assembly are just too excessive. As for the sharpness regarding the facelift rear lights subtly reminds me of an X-Acto knife. People relate shapes to other things and maybe subconsciously X-acto might come to mind.
Jun 12, 2008 5:33:20 AM
- Heist
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
Atzporsche said:Quote:
Heist said:
I thought over time I'd warm up to the new tailight design..
I still haven't.
Frankly, it "pulls down" the corners of the car and doesn't flow well with the rest of the design.
A 911 is about subtle compound curves and smooth humps. Sharp, angular lines that look like carry overs from a Japanese design just don't do it for me.
what are you talking about??!! the first lights seemed much more sharp and less flowing with the design.
These new light really make the rear flow IMHO
They tie up the hips above and the lower bumper parts underneath really effectively, while also making the car look updated and modern.
Notice on the 993/996/CGT how the tail lights all flow pretty harmonously with the body lines, shut lines and or panel gaps.
On the 997/2, where in the hell are these lines going? What's with the weird angle dropping the lens below the shut line? I don't get it. As a matter of fact, if you tilt the lens 90 degrees to the right, IT LOOKS LIKE A MAIN SAIL!
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
SciFrog said:
99% of the rest of the population will not see the differences anyway... Evolution not revolution.
Good point.
The other thing to consider? God love them but, unless you are into clean less-is-more, polished-river-rock utility and zen-like minimalist aesthetics the Germans suck at stuff like _styling_ cars. Of course, because the general public is stuupid, cars have to be low-brow "styled" to sell, a fact well-known by GM, Ford, etc.; just take a look at the cr*p sold at Home Depot with lots of ornate fluting, compound curves and other more-is-more embellishments.
Jun 12, 2008 5:17:08 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
You're insinuating that the only "good" design is minimalist and utilitarian design... And that's just not true... It's looking at the world through a gun-slit...
Not that I'm in love with your Home Depot Faucets, but more along the lines that many artistic masterpieces include compound curves, ornate features, etc...
From furniture, to cars, to architecture... There's more to art and beauty than the Great Pyramids and the Washington Monument. And while a river rock is a great example of nature's simplicity and efficiency, what would you then say about the complexity and wildness of a mountain range, or the Grand Canyon?
What would you be saying at Amelia Island or Pebble Beach? You'll find that your design philosophy is just one of MANY that have merit and timeless design.
An early Speedster is a beautiful and elemental design, for certain.... But it's a homely little appliance when parked next to a Bugatti or Duesenberg.
I'm not really sure where I'm going with this... Just making the point that good design, and beautiful design, can follow any myriad of different approaches and philosophies...
I think that, today and back through time, Germans have produced many lovely automobiles... As have Americans, and Italians, and British, and although their early stuff takes a mother to love, the Japanese have some gorgeous designs today.
And just because you believe the general public is "stupid", doesn't mean that a grand design can't be loved by them.
It's one thing to create art that pleases the critics... It's quite another to create art that please the critics AND transcends to the masses... I'd wager that the latter is the greater achievement, and defines "timeless". Work that only high-brow intellectuals like will disappear just as quickly as bubble-gum-culture. So how much more relevant is it?
The Mona Lisa is a masterpiece in large part because all walks and intellects recognize its beauty.
Not that I'm in love with your Home Depot Faucets, but more along the lines that many artistic masterpieces include compound curves, ornate features, etc...
From furniture, to cars, to architecture... There's more to art and beauty than the Great Pyramids and the Washington Monument. And while a river rock is a great example of nature's simplicity and efficiency, what would you then say about the complexity and wildness of a mountain range, or the Grand Canyon?
What would you be saying at Amelia Island or Pebble Beach? You'll find that your design philosophy is just one of MANY that have merit and timeless design.
An early Speedster is a beautiful and elemental design, for certain.... But it's a homely little appliance when parked next to a Bugatti or Duesenberg.
I'm not really sure where I'm going with this... Just making the point that good design, and beautiful design, can follow any myriad of different approaches and philosophies...
I think that, today and back through time, Germans have produced many lovely automobiles... As have Americans, and Italians, and British, and although their early stuff takes a mother to love, the Japanese have some gorgeous designs today.
And just because you believe the general public is "stupid", doesn't mean that a grand design can't be loved by them.
It's one thing to create art that pleases the critics... It's quite another to create art that please the critics AND transcends to the masses... I'd wager that the latter is the greater achievement, and defines "timeless". Work that only high-brow intellectuals like will disappear just as quickly as bubble-gum-culture. So how much more relevant is it?
The Mona Lisa is a masterpiece in large part because all walks and intellects recognize its beauty.
Jun 12, 2008 5:26:03 PM
- MMD
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
69bossnine said:
You're insinuating that the only "good" design is minimalist and utilitarian design...
Negative.
The only good design is classic and timeless.
The "minimalist" German Bauhaus aesthetic is definitely in the C&T category.
So is other stuff, like..., I dunno..., Victorian or Shaker or Art Deco.
It's when a certain design idiom gets mixed up, or "quoted," or over done that it becomes BAD (in a bad way).
Like those stuupid fluted exhaust apertures on the Turbo (which I'm gonna change on mine) is an example of going too far. Those and the "golf ball" driving lights.
IOW, just one or two mistakes and the whole overall design structure or "statement" comes crashing down in bad or "Home Depot" design.
BTW, most popular design or stylization is bad and it makes makes dozens of errors.
I dunno... .
Jun 12, 2008 5:56:10 PM
- Ferdie
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
69bossnine said:
It's one thing to create art that pleases the critics... It's quite another to create art that please the critics AND transcends to the masses... I'd wager that the latter is the greater achievement, and defines "timeless". Work that only high-brow intellectuals like will disappear just as quickly as bubble-gum-culture. So how much more relevant is it?
Please don't confuse art with product design. That's a completely different field and I do know a thing or two about it...
Porsche always chose a conservative yet individual approach for their designs. "Timeless" objects, as you call them, are significantly off the fashionable consensus of their particular time or at least gave significant inputs to the creative fields when they were launched.
German design is heavily inspired by a rational and precise thinking which was primarily established in this country by the Bauhaus and, after 2nd WW, by the university of Ulm. Funny enough, F.A. Porsche, who designed the very first 911, was a student at this particular school but was said to have left the university early. Design is, just as much as engineering, a field where effort plays an important role. Just as an engineer's revolutionary concept is followed by an extensive amount of development, there is quite some effort necessary to come up with a solid design. Contrary, saving on development time and costs does not only affect the mechanical components but also the design. Therefore there is, in all respect, a reason to complain about today's iterations, especially since previous generations were attracting sufficient interest to more than just your so-called intellectuals...
Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
I believe the front end now looks more like the Boxster, which I like, but 997 purists may not. The rear end is a big disappointment. I know that Porsche is trying to integrate the drooping taillights on all their models, as was first seen on the Cayenne, but combined with the pizza slice ala Nissan 350Z it is just out of place. In short I prefer the styling of the original 997, and yes 90% of the population will not notice, which is fortunate for Porsche.
Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
vincesf said:
I know that Porsche is trying to integrate the drooping taillights on all their models, as was first seen on the Cayenne.
Should the "dog" wag the "tail," or the tail wag the dog? ...I mean really, is Porsche an sports car company that makes one SUV -or -a SUV company that happens to make a few sports cars???
Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
Gnil said:
The 'old' style does look better ! The new ones have a style that is totally useless... The lights were already too big to my taste, now they are even bigger.
Can we retrofil the 997.1 lights to the 997.2 ?
I see that people with 997.1 find all sorts of faults with 997.2. And people who skiped 997.1 waiting for 997.2, like the new look very much. Not surprising at all Hehe
Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
awai08 said:
Comments?
The Facelift was intended for two reasons:
1. Add more buzz to sell more cars.
2. Make it more feminine looking to appeal to more women. Before the Carrera was considered the man's car with the Boxster for women.
Why might this be true? These are among the FIRST advertising photos to be released:
Jun 14, 2008 3:12:53 PM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
Gnil said:
The 'old' style does look better ! The new ones have a style that is totally useless... The lights were already too big to my taste, now they are even bigger.
Can we retrofil the 997.1 lights to the 997.2 ?
I see that people with 997.1 find all sorts of faults with 997.2. And people who skiped 997.1 waiting for 997.2, like the new look very much. Not surprising at all Hehe
I have the 997.1 and I like the 997.2 so much, I might consider getting one. But I want a turbo.
Jun 14, 2008 3:22:34 PM
- MMD
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
I have the 997.1 and I like the 997.2 so much, I might consider getting one. But I want a turbo.
Get the TT.
Free your mind.
I fkn hate the TT wing and the "fabulous" TT exhaust apertures but now somehow I have zero interest in the NA cars no matter how much better they _look_. Just get a dark colored TT if you feel the same way I do about the TT looks.
Jun 14, 2008 3:26:32 PM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Quote:
MMD said:Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
I have the 997.1 and I like the 997.2 so much, I might consider getting one. But I want a turbo.
Get the TT.
Free your mind.
I fkn hate the TT wing and the "fabulous" TT exhaust apertures but now somehow I have zero interest in the NA cars no matter how much better they _look_. Just get a dark colored TT if you feel the same way I do about the TT looks.
Black/black 997TT is on my mind.
The shape of the lights went from classic/handsome to trendy...
Jun 19, 2008 6:12:35 PM
- Steven Martins
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Jun 20, 2008 2:42:21 AM
- 911c2s
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Beyond PDK (a big thing on its own), the 997.2 has changed the engine quite a bit. It is no longer considered a 996 engine, the RMS has been addressed and should never fail (or so Porsche thinks ), direct injection has boosted hp/torque/mileage rather significantly. Engine, and transmission changes are significant IMO.
), direct injection has boosted hp/torque/mileage rather significantly. Engine, and transmission changes are significant IMO.
Jun 20, 2008 4:21:32 AM
- awai08
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Re: 997 Facelift styling discussion
Thanks! I wondered if anybody took notice. ...I agree, of course!
Quote:
Steven Martins said:
awai08, I really like your tail lights modification than the one from the 997.2. Seems to flow much better (and it would also allow for the red stripe on the c2s).
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