Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track? - Page2

Jun 11, 2008 3:58:03 PM

deathnell: Junior; Loc: GD.CHN; Posts: 74, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 4, 2007

Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Stig on TopGear drove both Carrera2 and Carrera4 in a stadium rally track(Something like ROC),and Carrera 4 was shown to be 1 or 2 SECs quick on that track.

What's more,I've heard that Walter Rohrl claimed that Carrer 4S ,which benefits from awd and wider rear tires,is slightly quicker than Carrers 2S on Nring or other track.

I wonder if the Awd models are really slightly quicker on a dry track.Most people think the C2(s) is more engaging to drive,while the C4(s) is only better for daily driving in different road conditions.

Next
Threads

Jun 11, 2008 4:15:51 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14188, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: deathnell

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

The difference is so small that it's the driver who will make the real difference .
Last time I was on the track , there was 3 C2S, one of them with some engine mods, I overtook all of them, at each sessions

Next
Threads

Jun 11, 2008 5:27:08 PM

rantanplan: Pilot; Loc: Stuttgart , Germany; Posts: 355, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 7, 2006; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

i would say on a normal GP course the carrera S would be faster due to less weight, especially in the front.. also it is slightly more agile and responsive then the awd models..
however, on the ring there is probably no difference and the better driver will make the race..
similar as the GT3 vs. the RS which both lap the ring in the exact same time...

Next
Threads

Jun 11, 2008 5:37:07 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Gnil said:
The difference is so small that it's the driver who will make the real difference.

Yet I believe it is worth noting that the previous AWD Carreras were, yet easier to handle at the very limit, slower on a circuit than their 2WD counterparts. The fact that both current versions are virtually equally fast shows that the handling differences outweigh the performance drawbacks.

The AWD might even be obsolete on dry tarmac, yet the wider rear tires and different suspension layout (wider rear track & sway bars) reduce the occurrence of understeer.

Next
Threads

Jun 11, 2008 5:49:17 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Ferdie said:
Quote:
Gnil said:
The difference is so small that it's the driver who will make the real difference.

Yet I believe it is worth noting that the previous AWD Carreras were, yet easier to handle at the very limit, slower on a circuit than their 2WD counterparts. The fact that both current versions are virtually equally fast shows that the handling differences outweigh the performance drawbacks.

The AWD might even be obsolete on dry tarmac, yet the wider rear tires and different suspension layout (wider rear track & sway bars) reduce the occurrence of understeer.

You have a nice way of looking at things Ferdie

I suspect that the reason the times are the same for C2 and C4 are NOT because there have been improvements in the 4WD system, but rather Porsche sees it appropriate to quote the same figure so that people buying the MORE expensive 4WD models will not feel inferior to the 2WD counterparts.

Next
Threads

Jun 11, 2008 6:07:01 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

I would like to believe Ferdie's optimism is correct but I share moogle's cynicism having seen how PAG behaves

Next
Threads

Jun 11, 2008 6:15:48 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

While I am not too up-to-date about the 997 Series, I know for a fact that the 996 C4S/C4S cabriolets were noticebly slower than their 2WD counterparts, that was because they were wider(heavier) and had the 4WD system which also added weight - and most importantly, the engine was the same. These points are still true on the 997.

Given the engine being equal, it is physically impossible to make a wider (more drag (negligible but worth mentioning) heavier (4WD/etc) car perform the same as the smaller, lighter 2WD version. The fact that Porsche claims they do is marketing malarkey.

These differences became very apparent on the track with similar drivers lining up. The track has a way of amplifying a car's positives AND negatives.

But off the track - which is where most of these cars will spend the majority of their lifetimes, such things may not matter much to the average buyer. 4WD is very nice to have in a rainstorm

The marketing tactics shouldn't have everyone crying foul, but I find it neccessary to alert readers who care (ie, those who bother to browse/read threads like this) that they should not rely too heavily on information being given to them by a company whose best interests may not be to divulge true performance info.

With the 911 being the defacto sports car choice in its price range, it ends up competing with itself with very few outside rivals. That explains almost 99% of how and why Porsche advertises/specifies/positions their models against eachother (and with such precision as only the germans can manage).

Next
Threads

Jun 11, 2008 10:00:39 PM

Weasel: Junior; Loc: GA; Posts: 125, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 5, 2006; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

While its 2WD counterpart may be a tenth of tick or so quicker in straight line performance, I can see how a C4S might more than make up for that in the curves. As others have alluded, the difference is likely more evident between drivers than machines when comparing the two at the track or on the street.

For what it's worth, I drove both models back-to-back in differing weather conditions on different types of roads before I purchased (thanks to friends and dealers in three states), and I much prefer the slightly more balanced weight distribution and the ever-so-slightly heavier steering feel -- not to mention the way the car pulls you around corners, its larger fuel tank, advanced braking feature, and the aesthetics of the wider tires, wheels and overall stance. The characteristic bobbing of the nose through unevenly paved curves is still there, but it seems dampened a little bit (maybe that's in my head) and lot more confidence inspiring at speed than the C2 and C2S. I'm not a big track fiend, mind you -- at least not on four wheels anyway -- so please try not to take my comments out of context. Just my thoughts and impressions . . . to each his own. It's almost cliche on this site -- but either way you go, you end up with a car that's arguably more involving and fun to drive than just about any other four-wheeled vehicle on the planet. Yamaha's R1 and Ducati's 1098 take the cake for two-wheeled vehicles, I think.

Next
Threads

Jun 11, 2008 10:59:14 PM

Circe: Co-Pilot; Loc: NH, USA; Posts: 157, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 26, 2005; Reply to: Weasel

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Weasel said:
... either way you go, you end up with a car that's arguably more involving and fun to drive than just about any other four-wheeled vehicle on the planet. Yamaha's R1 and Ducati's 1098 take the cake for two-wheeled vehicles, I think.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 2:18:05 AM

deathnell: Junior; Loc: GD.CHN; Posts: 74, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 4, 2007; Reply to: rantanplan

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

The AWD system on carrera 4 weights about 120lb,and a 997 weights no less than 3400 containing gas,oil,driver.Therefor i don't think the 130lb extra weight will affect straight light acceleration and handling.Maybe C4S can exit a tight corner quicker than CS2

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 6:13:06 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14188, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: deathnell

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

When reading some of the comments I can only think to myself that there is lots of 'theory' talk and not much real track experience/comparaison of the two cars.
I do regular track days with my C4S and I can garantee you that I do not get overtaken by the C2S .
And where I notice the BIGGEST difference is when braking !!!!!!!! I can brake much later and harder with my car ( due to the improved braking system on the C4S) . I pass the C2S nearly always at the braking points. I pull also faster out of the corners, the guys ofter come and speak to ma after and tell me they find it amazing how early I can pull so hard out of the corners. My -20mm with slip might help

The slight overweight is so insignificant on a track when driving with other cars, the advantage of the faster handling of the C2S only gives very slight advantages that are lost at breaking points, and I do not feel that the wider back gives so much more.....
That' s my real life experience, and that's what is is for 99 % of the people.
So unless you are a real professional, or that you do only one timed lap in the best conditions and that you are looking at gaining 0,0x seconds, then YOUR driving will make the diffrence !!!!

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 8:18:49 AM

Adam2S: Senior; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 19, 2007; Reply to: Weasel

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Weasel said:
its larger fuel tank, advanced braking feature, and the aesthetics of the wider tires, wheels and overall stance.

The larger fuel tank is 67ltrs -v- 64ltrs thats a 4.6% increase. Again using the official figures a C4S is 4.5% less econimical on fuel so this might explain the almost identical increase in tank size.

Call me old fashioned but Id prefer to have more money in my pocket and a smaller tank! Not to mention the weight saving on the track of those 3 ltrs of fuel!

How do the brakes on a C4S differ to a C2S? I was unaware of any difference whatsoever and can find no reference material to back this up?

All that said, I would choose a C4S over a C2S next time on cosmetic grounds. I now prefer the wider ass, even though at the time I choose a 2S becuase of the way it drove, the larger boot and lower price... The micro techincal and speed differences you guys find to justify a 4S over a 2S seems to baffle me - just be honest, you choose it because it looks more meaty and you are vain!

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 10:17:28 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Moogle said:
While I am not too up-to-date about the 997 Series, I know for a fact that the 996 C4S/C4S cabriolets were noticebly slower than their 2WD counterparts, that was because they were wider(heavier) and had the 4WD system which also added weight - and most importantly, the engine was the same. These points are still true on the 997.

Given the engine being equal, it is physically impossible to make a wider (more drag (negligible but worth mentioning) heavier (4WD/etc) car perform the same as the smaller, lighter 2WD version. The fact that Porsche claims they do is marketing malarkey.

Tom,

your thoughts are surely appropriate. However remember that the initial post was about the Top Gear run of these particular models.
Furthermore, the 996 C4S must not be mistaken with the 997 version since there also has been a similiar-bodied C4 version.

I would actually dare to say that the 997 iteration has more reasons to be ordered in AWD configuration than its predecessors. Porsche made quite an impressive job configuring the handling characteristics of these two models and their suspension configurations (std., PASM & -20mm).

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 10:19:46 AM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8235, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Adam2S

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Adam2S said:
How do the brakes on a C4S differ to a C2S? I was unaware of any difference whatsoever and can find no reference material to back this up?

The brake system pre-charges during the transition from throttle to brake pedal. It allows slightly faster response during panic stops or on a race track.

AFAIK, it will be standard on the facelifted 2WD models as well.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 1:06:25 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Gnil said:And where I notice the BIGGEST difference is when braking !!!!!!!! I can brake much later and harder with my car ( due to the improved braking system on the C4S) . I pass the C2S nearly always at the braking points. I pull also faster out of the corners, the guys ofter come and speak to ma after and tell me they find it amazing how early I can pull so hard out of the corners. My -20mm with slip might help

Yes, LSD provides much more stability under braking. It's my guess that most of the advantages of your car come from that, rather than the AWD or the pre-braking feature.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 2:03:57 PM

Nastinupe1: Newbie; Loc: Atlanta, Georgia, USA; Posts: 36, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 12, 2008; Reply to: Grant

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

I have driven a 997.1 C2S and currently own a 997.1 C4S and I can say that the C4S handles a lot better, which inspires more confidence on the road. I have yet to lose grip with the C4S while I can wiggle the back of a C2S on command.

Confidence encourages the driver to push has car harder, thus resulting in shorter lap times.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 2:25:45 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Nastinupe1

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Isn't it true that the C4S's steering is less sensitive and is not at the much heralded level of absolute perfection compared to the C2S? Did "Top Gear" have anything to say about that?

A few tenths on a track is supposedly not worth the steering loss unless it's typically raining and snowing where you drive.

I get the same criticism of my TT AWD, except the extra HP/Tq makes it well worth it.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 2:30:23 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Surprised there aren't more people to defend the RWD car.

Maybe Porsche should drop the RWD and leave that for the GT3/2 then.

It sure makes no sense to have a narrow and wide body anyway.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 4:09:30 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Some of us prefer the look and handling of the "narrow" body cars (although, these days, there is nothing narrow about either of them!)

I suspect most of the deltas seen on the tracks between the C4 and regular 2s lie with the drivers.

dan

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 4:14:15 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Dan L said:
Some of us prefer the look and handling of the "narrow" body cars (although, these days, there is nothing narrow about either of them!)

I suspect most of the deltas seen on the tracks between the C4 and regular 2s lie with the drivers.

dan

I agree with all of the above, Dan!

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 4:17:55 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Adam2S

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Adam2S said:
How do the brakes on a C4S differ to a C2S? I was unaware of any difference whatsoever and can find no reference material to back this up?

The 997 C4s have two PSM-related braking features (a braking readiness or pre-filling function and Brake Assist) which will appear on the 997FL rear-wheel drive models too.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 4:20:51 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14188, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Grant

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
Gnil said:And where I notice the BIGGEST difference is when braking !!!!!!!! I can brake much later and harder with my car ( due to the improved braking system on the C4S) . I pass the C2S nearly always at the braking points. I pull also faster out of the corners, the guys ofter come and speak to ma after and tell me they find it amazing how early I can pull so hard out of the corners. My -20mm with slip might help

Yes, LSD provides much more stability under braking. It's my guess that most of the advantages of your car come from that, rather than the AWD or the pre-braking feature.

That makes good sence, yes.
I baught my C4S because i wanted to be safe all year long ( even when snow) My next order is a C2S, as I prefer the narrow body and like the lighter steering wheel feel.
The performance difference in real life does mainly come to the driver.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 4:36:39 PM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: Nastinupe1

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Nastinupe1 said:Confidence encourages the driver to push has car harder, thus resulting in shorter lap times.

That can go both ways. A "confidence inspiring" set up may be one that prevents the driver from experiencing oversteer: a "safe suspension/tire set up". This will also promote understeer (especially in a 911), which will slow you down (especially if it encourages the driver to drive the car harder, which usually exacerbates understeer).

AWD permits the driver to accelerate better in a straight (or straightish) line, particularly when traction is impaired. The "race" alluded to in the first post was on a rally track - traction designed to be limited in areas. Thus, it's no surprise that the C4 did a little bit better. If I recall correctly, the Stig also said that he enjoyed the C2 more. . .

With an independent and excellent driver, I suspect that RWD would be faster than AWD on a dry track. Most drivers would agree that RWD is more fun to drive than AWD.

A 911, because of weight of rear engine right over drive axle, has excellent traction. AWD not required unless winter driving. Cheaper, less complex, lighter, better steering feel, "sportier" driving characteristics, longer life out of front tires: no brainer.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 4:39:23 PM

beltar: Veteran; Loc: belgium , Belgium; Posts: 1233, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
SciFrog said:

It sure makes no sense to have a narrow and wide body anyway.

Sure it makes sense...The shareholders are veery pleased with it

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 5:06:15 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: beltar

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

"Confidence inspiring" is a double-edged sword. My 997s scared the sheet out of me in a fast curve but stayed planted on a favorite relatively safe highway on ramp.

Did the same "confident" thing on the same ramp with TT and even with P_T_M (which the C4S has, right?) the car swung out, fishtailed and PSM was no use (that I could appreciate).

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 7:14:50 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21156, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Gnil said:
When reading some of the comments I can only think to myself that there is lots of 'theory' talk and not much real track experience/comparaison of the two cars.
I do regular track days with my C4S and I can garantee you that I do not get overtaken by the C2S .
And where I notice the BIGGEST difference is when braking !!!!!!!! I can brake much later and harder with my car ( due to the improved braking system on the C4S) . I pass the C2S nearly always at the braking points. I pull also faster out of the corners, the guys ofter come and speak to ma after and tell me they find it amazing how early I can pull so hard out of the corners. My -20mm with slip might help
The slight overweight is so insignificant on a track when driving with other cars, the advantage of the faster handling of the C2S only gives very slight advantages that are lost at breaking points, and I do not feel that the wider back gives so much more.....
That' s my real life experience, and that's what is is for 99 % of the people.
So unless you are a real professional, or that you do only one timed lap in the best conditions and that you are looking at gaining 0,0x seconds, then YOUR driving will make the diffrence !!!!

I agree 100%. I have tried both at the track, the difference is so small at the track its the driver that will make any difference. Unless the track in question is extremly suited to each car's strength (short wet track -> C4S, fast dry track -> C2S) but even still. The reason I chose the RWD over the AWD is that the RWD is a bit more fun to drive and has a sportier handnlig character (when closer to the limits), and the AWD offered no worthwhile advantages "to me" (personal preference) in order to trade that in for. But performace wise, with equal driver my experience is that the C2S will not pull away from a C4S overall at the track.

However in relation to the braking, I agree with Grant, I would wager its mostly due to the LSD in our -20mm, not only because theoretically the LSD has more effect on braking that the 997's AWD, but because my previous car was a 996C4-M30 and one of the things I noticed more than expected with my 997S-20mm is how much more stable it is at braking and how much later I can do it with the RWD 997C2 with rear LSD than with the AWD 996C4-10mm.

Anyway thats my just 2 cents

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 7:31:14 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
MMD said:
"Confidence inspiring" is a double-edged sword. My 997s scared the sheet out of me in a fast curve but stayed planted on a favorite relatively safe highway on ramp.

Did the same "confident" thing on the same ramp with TT and even with P_T_M (which the C4S has, right?) the car swung out, fishtailed and PSM was no use (that I could appreciate).

The C4S.1 has the regular viscous-type AWD and not the useless PTM that the 997TT has. Many Nring enthusiasts are throwing out their electronic AWD on their 997TTs in favor of the old 996TT AWD (which the C4S also has). That being said, the C4S FL will also get the PTM.

Next
Threads

Jun 12, 2008 10:25:22 PM

JAG007: Junior; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 104, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 16, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

2S in a straight line is faster, around a circle is slower. It all depends on the circuit and the demands it makes on the car in terms of lateral movement, which is terms is a function of the grip available with the relevant weight on the given wheels.
On the other hand, as most people pointed out, pointless, P knows best than to tell us the truth on their own tests.
Oh and of course the LSD / sports suspensions bring in an additional dimension, that is what it says on the tin!
Personally, I prefer the RWD simply because it feels more "edgy", if I wanted to feel "safe" I would not venture on circuits ;-)
To each his own

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2008 1:24:34 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Crash said:

The C4S.1 has the regular viscous-type AWD and not the useless PTM that the 997TT has. Many Nring enthusiasts are throwing out their electronic AWD on their 997TTs in favor of the old 996TT AWD (which the C4S also has). That being said, the C4S FL will also get the PTM.

Wow! Gotta look into that (probably won't do any mods for a while though). Thanks for the clue Crash.

Next
Threads

Jun 13, 2008 9:22:03 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14188, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
Gnil said:
When reading some of the comments I can only think to myself that there is lots of 'theory' talk and not much real track experience/comparaison of the two cars.
I do regular track days with my C4S and I can garantee you that I do not get overtaken by the C2S .
And where I notice the BIGGEST difference is when braking !!!!!!!! I can brake much later and harder with my car ( due to the improved braking system on the C4S) . I pass the C2S nearly always at the braking points. I pull also faster out of the corners, the guys ofter come and speak to ma after and tell me they find it amazing how early I can pull so hard out of the corners. My -20mm with slip might help
The slight overweight is so insignificant on a track when driving with other cars, the advantage of the faster handling of the C2S only gives very slight advantages that are lost at breaking points, and I do not feel that the wider back gives so much more.....
That' s my real life experience, and that's what is is for 99 % of the people.
So unless you are a real professional, or that you do only one timed lap in the best conditions and that you are looking at gaining 0,0x seconds, then YOUR driving will make the diffrence !!!!

I agree 100%. I have tried both at the track, the difference is so small at the track its the driver that will make any difference. Unless the track in question is extremly suited to each car's strength (short wet track -> C4S, fast dry track -> C2S) but even still. The reason I chose the RWD over the AWD is that the RWD is a bit more fun to drive and has a sportier handnlig character (when closer to the limits), and the AWD offered no worthwhile advantages "to me" (personal preference) in order to trade that in for. But performace wise, with equal driver my experience is that the C2S will not pull away from a C4S overall at the track.

However in relation to the braking, I agree with Grant, I would wager its mostly due to the LSD in our -20mm, not only because theoretically the LSD has more effect on braking that the 997's AWD, but because my previous car was a 996C4-M30 and one of the things I noticed more than expected with my 997S-20mm is how much more stable it is at braking and how much later I can do it with the RWD 997C2 with rear LSD than with the AWD 996C4-10mm.

Anyway thats my just 2 cents

The main helping difference being the slip does make more sence then the slightly improved faster brake response .
The stability on these hard braking corner entry seems to be the main clue , besides having the balls to push the braking point slightly further

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	5/15/24 8:44 AM art.italy	809316	1808
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	450617	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	267962	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	91127	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	7935	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	888908	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	840285	3868
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	402765	1454
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	398987	1526
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	386271	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	372170	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	5/12/24 6:23 PM blueflame	294589	669
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	268404	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	244844	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	239263	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	223273	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	173814	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	145577	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	121962	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	113831	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	86442	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	76653	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	55694	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	5/18/24 9:44 PM Wonderbar	27580	249
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	22308	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	20929	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	17561	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	15473	225
Porsche	Porsche Mission X Hypercar	12/3/23 8:52 AM 996FourEss	11494	63
Porsche	911 S/T	10/10/23 8:53 AM RC	10965	55

Crown

Forum - Thread

Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Re: Carrera 4(S) beats 2(S) on track?

Forum

Boards