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Jun 11, 2008 4:36:54 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Gnil
Jun 11, 2008 4:54:01 PM
- Grant
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Ron (Houston)
Jun 11, 2008 6:42:20 PM
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Marwan Arakji
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Jun 11, 2008 6:45:58 PM
- sergini
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Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:
my dealer says Jan. 09... power should be no less than an extra 25 bhp... 996 X51 was +25 bhp, 997.1 X51 was +27 bhp... with X51 and PDK, the new Carrera S would be in GT3 territory...
and they they produce the new gt3 with 35 hp extra .....and the story goes on ...
Jun 11, 2008 7:04:41 PM
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Marwan Arakji
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Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
seems the new GT3 and RS will be based on the 3.8 liters engine, which would make sense... I read the output could be at 450 bhp!!! I only wish they would have paddle shifters going with it, with a bang-bang-bang shift sensation... I fear this seemless PDK might be heartless and lacking soul... just like the 997 TT exhaust and engine note...
Jun 11, 2008 7:58:27 PM
- Grant
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Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
Marwan Arakji said:
seems the new GT3 and RS will be based on the 3.8 liters engine, which would make sense... I read the output could be at 450 bhp!!! I only wish they would have paddle shifters going with it, with a bang-bang-bang shift sensation... I fear this seemless PDK might be heartless and lacking soul... just like the 997 TT exhaust and engine note...
Get a new GT3 3.8L with manual gearbox then - problem solved
Jun 11, 2008 8:15:43 PM
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Marwan Arakji
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Jun 12, 2008 3:08:49 AM
- cibergypsy
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Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
sticky said:
Everything completely depends on what X51 adds. Previous X51 was a waste of money, maybe Porsche will take the criticism to heart respond strongly like they did with the facelift.
The argument of wether or not the previous X51 is worth it depends on your point of view. I have it on my 2006 997 S and my car is optioned in such a way that I don't feel the need to sell my car to get the FL. I got a negligible 4 horsepower deficit and I don't know the new car's torque figure but I got 306 ft-lbs in mine because of the X51. OK, so it cost me some money but it is less than what I would have to come with were I to sell or trade my car in for the new one. As far as iPod integration, I got the Dension in for $500 and have no need for Bluetooth. To this moment, I don't know what other tweeks the FL car is going to have as far as suspension, brakes etc. and it would have to come down to that to make the car noticeably faster on a track. It all depends on one's point of view, like I said. Had I gotten a 997 S with the standard 355 hp, I would feel the need to upgrade.
Jun 12, 2008 3:17:22 AM
- sticky
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Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
cibergypsy said:Quote:
sticky said:
Everything completely depends on what X51 adds. Previous X51 was a waste of money, maybe Porsche will take the criticism to heart respond strongly like they did with the facelift.
The argument of wether or not the previous X51 is worth it depends on your point of view. I have it on my 2006 997 S and my car is optioned in such a way that I don't feel the need to sell my car to get the FL. I got a negligible 4 horsepower deficit and I don't know the new car's torque figure but I got 306 ft-lbs in mine because of the X51. OK, so it cost me some money but it is less than what I would have to come with were I to sell or trade my car in for the new one. As far as iPod integration, I got the Dension in for $500 and have no need for Bluetooth. To this moment, I don't know what other tweeks the FL car is going to have as far as suspension, brakes etc. and it would have to come down to that to make the car noticeably faster on a track. It all depends on one's point of view, like I said. Had I gotten a 997 S with the standard 355 hp, I would feel the need to upgrade.
I suppose it does depend on your point of view. Mine being that I would rather have DSG and direct injection than X51. The X51 simply can't hold a candle to everything offered in the facelift and won't perform as well.
I suppose if I had x51 I would not upgrade because I would never see the money spent for X51 again.
Now X51 on the facelift... that is another story.
Jun 12, 2008 3:26:48 AM
- cibergypsy
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Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
sticky said:Quote:
cibergypsy said:Quote:
sticky said:
Everything completely depends on what X51 adds. Previous X51 was a waste of money, maybe Porsche will take the criticism to heart respond strongly like they did with the facelift.
The argument of wether or not the previous X51 is worth it depends on your point of view. I have it on my 2006 997 S and my car is optioned in such a way that I don't feel the need to sell my car to get the FL. I got a negligible 4 horsepower deficit and I don't know the new car's torque figure but I got 306 ft-lbs in mine because of the X51. OK, so it cost me some money but it is less than what I would have to come with were I to sell or trade my car in for the new one. As far as iPod integration, I got the Dension in for $500 and have no need for Bluetooth. To this moment, I don't know what other tweeks the FL car is going to have as far as suspension, brakes etc. and it would have to come down to that to make the car noticeably faster on a track. It all depends on one's point of view, like I said. Had I gotten a 997 S with the standard 355 hp, I would feel the need to upgrade.
I suppose it does depend on your point of view. Mine being that I would rather have DSG and direct injection than X51. The X51 simply can't hold a candle to everything offered in the facelift and won't perform as well.
I suppose if I had x51 I would not upgrade because I would never see the money spent for X51 again.
Now X51 on the facelift... that is another story.
My point is proven then, that having an X51 on a pre-FL car makes it difficult to swallow changing to a FL car, as opposed to having the standard car, where the differences would be much greater. As far as the FL performing better, to what areas of performance are you referring to? I must admit I took just a glance at Porsche's website and haven't really looked deeper into the other advantages of the FL car as compared to mine. I for one don't care about any other transmission than a manual. So, assuming a new FL car with manual transmission and my 2006 X51 997 S, what other aspects of the FL car will outperform mine? This is an honest, non "smart-ass" question, since I haven't really looked more into the other aspects of the new car. Any info???
Jun 12, 2008 3:42:48 AM
- sticky
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Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
cibergypsy said:Quote:
sticky said:Quote:
cibergypsy said:Quote:
sticky said:
Everything completely depends on what X51 adds. Previous X51 was a waste of money, maybe Porsche will take the criticism to heart respond strongly like they did with the facelift.
The argument of wether or not the previous X51 is worth it depends on your point of view. I have it on my 2006 997 S and my car is optioned in such a way that I don't feel the need to sell my car to get the FL. I got a negligible 4 horsepower deficit and I don't know the new car's torque figure but I got 306 ft-lbs in mine because of the X51. OK, so it cost me some money but it is less than what I would have to come with were I to sell or trade my car in for the new one. As far as iPod integration, I got the Dension in for $500 and have no need for Bluetooth. To this moment, I don't know what other tweeks the FL car is going to have as far as suspension, brakes etc. and it would have to come down to that to make the car noticeably faster on a track. It all depends on one's point of view, like I said. Had I gotten a 997 S with the standard 355 hp, I would feel the need to upgrade.
I suppose it does depend on your point of view. Mine being that I would rather have DSG and direct injection than X51. The X51 simply can't hold a candle to everything offered in the facelift and won't perform as well.
I suppose if I had x51 I would not upgrade because I would never see the money spent for X51 again.
Now X51 on the facelift... that is another story.
My point is proven then, that having an X51 on a pre-FL car makes it difficult to swallow changing to a FL car, as opposed to having the standard car, where the differences would be much greater. As far as the FL performing better, to what areas of performance are you referring to? I must admit I took just a glance at Porsche's website and haven't really looked deeper into the other advantages of the FL car as compared to mine. I for one don't care about any other transmission than a manual. So, assuming a new FL car with manual transmission and my 2006 X51 997 S, what other aspects of the FL car will outperform mine? This is an honest, non "smart-ass" question, since I haven't really looked more into the other aspects of the new car. Any info???
X51 does not provide you with a limited slip unfortunately. X51 does not provide the -20 mm sport suspension, again unfortunately. It also can not match the torque under the curve, the facelift has ~310 pound-feet.
Even with a manual, the facelift simply will outperform the X51. 0-100 mph is quoted by porsche (with its conservative figures) as under 10 seconds and 9.6 for the dsg. This is as fast as a 996 turbo, which is FAST.
Jun 12, 2008 4:35:01 AM
- cibergypsy
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Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
So, is the limited slip and -20mm sport suspension available in the USA this time around? That's good news for new car buyers. I know I can get a factory transmission with limited slip for a North American car from the dealer giving them mine as a core. I guess that's the nature of this car hobby, you get the best now and, in a couple of years, it's improved by something else.
Jun 12, 2008 4:53:55 AM
- SoCal Alan
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Jun 12, 2008 12:38:20 PM
- cibergypsy
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Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Quote:
cibergypsy said:
So, is the limited slip and -20mm sport suspension available in the USA this time around?
Yes, but with PASM.
So, it may still be cheaper to put the limited slip transmission that is already available for my 2006 997 S from Porsche here in the US than selling and getting a new car. My car has no monthly payments as I paid cash for it. Ouch!
Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
MMD said:
IMO, since HP/Tq of FL car has gotten more respectable, and previous X-51 wasn't really a "must have" because it cost three times what it was worth; my guess is newest X-51 is even less attractive as an option.
You obviously never owned the the X51 package. It made the 997 an even better car, and was well worth the money. Awesome car!
I'll reserve judgement on the next package until I see what it is.
Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
cnc said:
You obviously never owned the the X51 package. It made the 997 an even better car, and was well worth the money. Awesome car!
No..., but "I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night."
Oh..., and I subscribe to "Excellence" which said the following about X51.
I conclude it's like PSE or SC, more psychological than phenomenological. I dunno... . Whatever you want is good (maybe just get the TT and be done with it?).
-----------------------------------------------
With the fluids properly warmed and a long onramp just ahead, it's time to put the X51 engine through its paces. In second gear and at full throttle, acceleration is strong - but then the same can be said for any Carrera S and even the 3.6-liter Carrera. The latest 3.8-liter 997s are powerful enough leave one wondering if there's much development potential left in the normally-aspirated flat six.
X51 answers that question convincingly, with a 997 Carrera S-like powerband that's as linear as it is strong. It offers good torque from just off idle all the way up to redline, but it can't match the GT3's top-end fervor. It feels slightly more "workhorse" to the high-strung GT3's thoroughbred. But, in a 911 more likely to be used every day than most GT3s will be, that's a good thing. The X51 3.8 offers tractable power everywhere, with plenty of good noises and enough zing to keep things interesting as it reaches for redline.
Does it feel faster than a plain Carrera S? Yes and no. No because it's tough to feel a seven percent power increase in a car that weighs more than 3,000 pounds and claims more than 350 horsepower. But informal roll-on tests in third and fourth gears later in the day saw the Club Coupe pull away from the 2005 997S slowly, but surely. It was exactly the difference you'd expect from a 26 hp/11 lb-ft advantage. Importantly, X51 gives up nothing across its powerband to the regular 3.8. Though its peak power and torque figures come 600 and 900 rpm later, the X51's powerband never dips below the 3.8's. Even from 1500-2000 rpm, it has a useful, 15 lb-ft advantage.
People after the best horsepower-per-dollar equation might be happier spending their $17,000 on the aftermarket, but X51 has two edges that must be considered: (1) it maintains the factory's full warranty and (2) there's a sweetness to this engine that can't be quantified. The throttle response in the X51-equipped 2006 997S was plain superior to the 2005 997S we tried. The revised motor sings through its powerband with an alacrity one wouldn't know the standard engine is missing - unless he or she tried an X51. Gear after gear, pull after pull to its 7300-rpm redline, the X51 engine is considerably more satisfying than the normal 3.8 - which itself is no slouch.
Re: 997.2 powerkit X51
Quote:
cnc said:Quote:
MMD said:
IMO, since HP/Tq of FL car has gotten more respectable, and previous X-51 wasn't really a "must have" because it cost three times what it was worth; my guess is newest X-51 is even less attractive as an option.
You obviously never owned the the X51 package. It made the 997 an even better car, and was well worth the money. Awesome car!
I'll reserve judgement on the next package until I see what it is.
The powerkit X51 is like another model above the Carrera S. It is like you have the 345HP Carrera , 385HP carrera S and 415HP Carrera SS (oops sorry I didn't mean anything bad here
).
All powerkitted cars throughout Porsche history (993, 996,997, Turbos etc) are special cars with totally different power characteristics. If Porsche marketed it as a separate Model in the carrera range and not as just another option, demand would have been much higher.
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