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    Jun 9, 2008 12:19:41 AM

    ResB Offline
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    C'mon Doc, you just said

    Quote:
    Having said that, I more and more believe that he lacks a basic quality to ever become a truly great driver, and his mistake today demonstrated that



    You said it yourself, he's a rookie and he's only in his 2nd season. How you can say that he'll never become a truly great driver is a little premature don't you think?

    He made a mistake. Schumacher made mistakes too as all the greats have. I admit this one in the pits was, eh, not sure how to put it other than "due to inexperience, petulance perhaps), but do take a look at Schumachers career, I remember quite a few petulant actions from this now legendary driver.

    I just think you making a rather brash statement for someone so early in his career.

    Jun 9, 2008 12:24:11 AM

    ezzie
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    I think people are being rather harsh on Hamilton. It was indeed his mistake, but also he came into the pits first, he saw kimi and kubica side and side and assumed they were racing till he spotted the light too late. He was punished by the stewards for it and that's that. I still think kimi ought to have been punished for Monaco.

    Difficult to extrapolate his whole career from only the start of his second season. I still think Kimi will win this year, but its too early to write Hamilton's career's likely impact at this stage. I think colour is a positive and a negative, but hopefully will be judged on his track abilities. He's just unfortunate as he somewhat exceeded expectations in his first season and now any mistake is seen more critically, rather any 22 year old in their second season. As the ITV commentators, they are desperate for ratings and in their interests to hype Hamilton to increase their viewers, hopefully the BBC will do a far more even handed job commentating next year. Having said that Italian tv is somewhat pro Ferrari and italian drivers. Its no bad thing for them to be keen on the national team or drivers. Though admittedly, other than for Brundle's contribution, ITV's coverage is dire.

    Going back to the championship, this result has had the same effect of a safety car, bringing all the contenders closely packed together again, which is no bad thing.

    Jun 9, 2008 12:40:38 AM

    racerx
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    I just saw it for the first time. It was simply an accident with a little lack of wisdom thrown in. Kimi got nailed because he was trying to cheat on Kubica.

    The same things being said about hamilton could be said about the driver behind him, because he nailed hamilton. Those guys are all about go and not too good with slow.

    Jun 9, 2008 12:45:45 AM

    JoeRockhead
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    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    It was a rookie mistake. Hamilton is not the prodigy so many make him out to be. He crashed into a stopped car for crying out loud.

    Jun 9, 2008 4:13:03 AM

    Heist
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    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Hamilton made a rookie error and will be penalized 10 places at the next race. NUFF SAID. A few of you are calling for his head and points like he committed some grand racing sin. A couple of things:

    (1) I think many of you forget, no matter his skill driving, he's a 22 year old ROOKIE driver and is still going to make those rookie type errors.

    (2) Just as you're coming out of the pits is PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST MENTALLY TAXING times as a driver. You're being feed a ton of instructions, position, and strategy on your earpiece from the pit, you're andrenaline level is bumping, and you're busy resetting stuff on the wheel.

    (3) Coming out of the pits during a race to a RED LIGHT condition is highly unsual (Does anyone know why the light was red?). The pit light is not something you look at but rather glance at and he probably looked at it just a bit too late to notice the two other cars had basically cut his closing distance in half.

    (4) While coming out of the pits, the carbon brakes have had time enough to cool to the point where they're almost ineffective. If you looked carefully, you could tell Hamilton (and Rosberg) had fully applied brakes - but the cars continued to coast as if they were on ice.

    It's an unfortunate thing that happened. Driver error indeed and I think his 10 place penalty is an appropiate punishment.

    Jun 9, 2008 4:40:06 AM

    reginos
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    Reply to: Heist

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Hamilton is a great driver with lots of talent but I don't think he is stable enough as an individual. All this media publicity and celebrity status are getting into his head it seems. IMO Ron Dennis should overlook who he is hanging out with (like the P'Diddys etc) and also don't allow old Anthony to attend races. In the UK many promising sportsmen were destroyed by the media appetite to give them celebrity status and the resulting over-exposure.

    Jun 9, 2008 6:13:34 AM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    luwalira said:
    Once again FIA's Ferrari bias is in practice. Hamilton and Rosberg made errors, received a penalty. Kimi plough into Sutil in Monaco but walks away with a clean slate.



    Having said that, I more and more believe that he lacks a basic quality to ever become a truly great driver, and his mistake today demonstrated that:



    Not at all. All drivers make mistake. Heck Kimi has ruined it for two people already this season. He destroyed Sutil's thunder and punctured one of Kovalienin's rear tires in Turkey. Not only that, but Kimi's performance in Australia wasn't of world class either.

    This loss doesn't take any of Hamilton's talent away, he's still one of the best drivers today. This was just one of those bad weekend, all drivers have their ups and down. Just look back as Alonso's rookie-like overtaking attempt on Heidfeld in Monaco, is that how a two time champion should behave on the track?? No! But he's still a good driver isn't he?

    As for ITV being biased all I can say is welcome to the real world? Don't you think that Spanish, Finnish or Italian commentators aren't just as biased?? Either way it was a disastrous weekend for the Hamilton family, both Lewis and his father crashed two very expensive cars last week. Hamilton crashed most likely due to him being too caught up with battling with the guys at the front who managed to leap frog him due to a slow pit lane stop.

    Jun 9, 2008 7:13:22 AM

    gangajas
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    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    The funny thing is that the day before Hamilton had made arrogant comments like these:

    Quote:
    "I am not fussed," Hamilton told reporters after qualifying. "It is not going to cause me any problems as I know how to drive around it now. For sure it is better if there isn't a problem and if they can fix it, then great.

    "For me, more of a concern is the safety cars that there probably will be tomorrow, and not getting caught out like some of the drivers were last year. I know Fernando was caught out, and in the last few years Juan Pablo Montoya came out of the pits with the red light, and also Felipe (Massa) last year.

    "It is very tricky. We have to make sure that we focus on optimising our strategy and making sure we don't make any mistakes."

    Hamilton said he was not surprised by the big gap to his rivals, as he reckons he found a solution that many other drivers did not see.

    "What can I say? I put together a clean lap and everyone else was struggling with the track's poor surfaces and I found a solution," he said.

    "At the end of the day if there is a problem, it is my job to find a solution and get around it as quick as possible. So I am not surprised that I have that big a gap there, because I can see other people would probably not have found it. So that is why I am on pole."

    He added: "It is one of my skills. I am able to adjust to whatever conditions I have, and that is probably why I am so strong in the wet. I feel at home, I feel comfortable. And it wasn't tough, to be honest."



    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68098

    Jun 9, 2008 7:16:58 AM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: gangajas

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    The funny thing is that the day before Hamilton had made arrogant comments like these:

    Quote:

    "For me, more of a concern is the safety cars that there probably will be tomorrow, and not getting caught out like some of the drivers were last year. I know Fernando was caught out, and in the last few years Juan Pablo Montoya came out of the pits with the red light, and also Felipe (Massa) last year."





    This year, he's the one who got caught out.

    Jun 9, 2008 8:17:28 AM

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Reply to: ResB

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    (...) lf, he's a rookie and he's only in his 2nd season. How you can say that he'll never become a truly great driver is a little premature don't you think?

    I just think you making a rather brash statement for someone so early in his career.



    Hey ResB.
    You may be right. I may have to eat my words eventually. Hypothetically. Of course we all know I am the Guru, and can never be wrong
    Seriously, Hamilton is brilliant in many of the important areas, I just have a feeling he lacks something when it comes to focus and/or multitasking.
    I agree that a rookie should be allowed to make rookie-mistakes, but Hamilton is a strange hybrid. He has been groomed by Ron Dennis for years, and has shown he can compete with the best of this and last season, so in that sense he is hardly a rookie.
    Then he makes a mistake like this, and people say "ah, he's just a rookie. He will learn".
    Well, he may be a rookie in terms of age and experience in the F1 arena, but in all other departments he is experienced enough to win.
    So my theory is, that his ability to focus or multitask is not as great as others'.
    He doesnt make driving errors as such, he doesnt spin out or pick a wrong line. He fumbles.
    He fracks up in the strangest places, unrelated to the racing itself.
    Perhaps he is just too eager - it may be as simple as that. And perhaps he can learn to slow down mentally.

    We have seen this happen many times in many different businesses: People who have tremendous skills within a certain industry/field, only to lack in one seemingly minor dept., and as a result they dont deliver on the promise of their talent.

    Hamilton may still learn all this.
    I am just saying that he has a problem, that he will either have to overcome quickly or it could cripple his career.
    And it's not a small problem either. Last year it cost him the championship, yesterday it cost him the race.

    Being young and impressionable, this whole F1 circus must also be fracking with his mind. Kimi has told the press that he thinks about quitting, because he cant handle the PR/celebrity fuss outside the tracks.

    So perhaps less P Diddy and self-absorbed comments on his own driving style, and more attention to finding some mental balance and focus.

    Jun 9, 2008 11:12:27 AM

    ResB Offline
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    ResB said:
    (...) lf, he's a rookie and he's only in his 2nd season. How you can say that he'll never become a truly great driver is a little premature don't you think?

    I just think you making a rather brash statement for someone so early in his career.



    Hey ResB.
    You may be right. I may have to eat my words eventually. Hypothetically. Of course we all know I am the Guru, and can never be wrong




    I've always tried to organise my life according to the "Dr. Phil" gospel to be honest, but this comment didn't seem like the level headed replies I'm used to seeing, however, your further elaboration has some merit.

    Jun 9, 2008 11:54:17 AM

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Reply to: ResB

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    I've always tried to organise my life according to the "Dr. Phil" gospel to be honest, but this comment didn't seem like the level headed replies I'm used to seeing, however, your further elaboration has some merit.



    My apprentice. You must understand that it is often a burden being as enlightened as I am. I see things clearly, but often have to explain them repeatedly in simple, digestible sentences so others - mortal people - can comprehend and absorb my wisdom.
    I must be patient and take it slow to make sure everyone can follow my thinking.
    It seems inhuman, I know. More than mortal man can take. Yes.
    But I have been given this task and by Jove, I shall see it through!

    Jun 9, 2008 12:49:36 PM

    doyle
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Why the stewards would open the pit lane but keep the exit light red is beyond me. Safety car laps count as racing laps so they should follow the same protocol. If the first cars get into the pits when open and can make it back out into the queue before the last car passes the pit exit then so be it. I agree with hiest, the driver is so focused on resetting functions, keeping on the speed limiter, gathering verbal instructions, etc... to throw a red light at them when they are most expecting to be on full throttle is assanine.

    Some of these safety car/pit open/pit closed rules are just becoming plain silly and pointless.

    Jun 9, 2008 1:17:42 PM

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Reply to: doyle

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    doyle said:
    I agree with hiest, the driver is so focused on resetting functions, keeping on the speed limiter, gathering verbal instructions, etc... to throw a red light at them when they are most expecting to be on full throttle is assanine.

    Some of these safety car/pit open/pit closed rules are just becoming plain silly and pointless.



    I agree, that the officials did a poor job at Montreal, and that the SC being there was questionable to put it mildly. They should be able to remove a car (that didnt even disturb traffic directly) without the SC.
    Having said that, all drivers have the same tasks to perform, and since both Kimi and Kubica managed to see and stop at the red light, it only proves that Hamilton wasnt focussed.

    These guys make a lot of $$ driving these cars. While there may be a lot of things going on at one time, this is an important part of F1 and this is why these special and gifted drivers - unlike you and me - sit in those cars and get paid $$ for it.
    One should think that you can expect them to be able to perform multiple tasks at once - it's what they are trained for, it's what they do.

    Jun 9, 2008 1:21:46 PM

    gangajas
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    Reply to: doyle

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    doyle said:
    Why the stewards would open the pit lane but keep the exit light red is beyond me. Safety car laps count as racing laps so they should follow the same protocol. If the first cars get into the pits when open and can make it back out into the queue before the last car passes the pit exit then so be it. I agree with hiest, the driver is so focused on resetting functions, keeping on the speed limiter, gathering verbal instructions, etc... to throw a red light at them when they are most expecting to be on full throttle is assanine.

    Some of these safety car/pit open/pit closed rules are just becoming plain silly and pointless.


    In how many incidents has Hamilton been involved since he started in F1? This is not something new, when he open his big mouth during a weekend you know that something bad is going to happen sooner or later.

    Jun 9, 2008 1:31:46 PM

    reginos
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    Reply to: gangajas

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    doyle said:
    Why the stewards would open the pit lane but keep the exit light red is beyond me. Safety car laps count as racing laps so they should follow the same protocol. If the first cars get into the pits when open and can make it back out into the queue before the last car passes the pit exit then so be it. I agree with hiest, the driver is so focused on resetting functions, keeping on the speed limiter, gathering verbal instructions, etc... to throw a red light at them when they are most expecting to be on full throttle is assanine.

    Some of these safety car/pit open/pit closed rules are just becoming plain silly and pointless.


    In how many incidents has Hamilton been involved since he started in F1? This is not something new, when he open his big mouth during a weekend you know that something bad is going to happen sooner or later.


    How can you take Hamilton seriously as a complete sports person (in spite of his huge talent as a driver), when in his entourage is father Anthony (aka CGT crasher), P Diddy and that other female popstar?

    Jun 9, 2008 1:44:08 PM

    TRF414WCR
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    Reply to: ResB

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Did anyone notice the passing move Massa did at the haipin?

    Jun 9, 2008 1:57:12 PM

    Heist
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    Reply to: TRF414WCR

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    TRF414WCR said:
    Did anyone notice the passing move Massa did at the haipin?



    Who didn't?! That may just be the pass of the year. You're lucky if you get one dynamic passes like that each year in F1.

    It's a benefit of the non-traction controlled world b/c the two other cars were struggling for traction off the apex.

    Jun 9, 2008 2:21:37 PM

    TRF414WCR
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    Reply to: Heist

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Thanks, I thought it was exceptionally executed, judging from how far back he was coming into that corner.
    Too bad the team made a mess with his pitstop strategy and not enough fuel was in his tanks in order for him to make it till the end of the race.

    Jun 9, 2008 2:23:36 PM

    ed_moree
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    Reply to: ADias

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ADias said:


    I long said Hamilton is a jerk. He should be penalized - I suggest losing 12 pts.





    yes especially after hearing his comments: "I apologise to Kimi if I ruined his race but that sort of thing happens," so i never ever saw Shumacher doing anything like that! Or Senna! or Lauda! maybe Alonso!?!? nop.... it just a rookie spoiled like him that knows that he can do whatever he wants that says anything like this.

    Jun 9, 2008 4:12:07 PM

    ResB Offline
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    Reply to: ed_moree

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:


    I long said Hamilton is a jerk. He should be penalized - I suggest losing 12 pts.





    yes especially after hearing his comments: "I apologise to Kimi if I ruined his race but that sort of thing happens," so i never ever saw Shumacher doing anything like that! Or Senna! or Lauda! maybe Alonso!?!? nop.... it just a rookie spoiled like him that knows that he can do whatever he wants that says anything like this.



    No Schumy didn't your right, but he did deliberately take Damon Hill out of a race by ramming him cos he was winning. Now that was stupid, petulant and very dangerous...

    Jun 9, 2008 4:17:36 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: ResB

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    ADias said:


    I long said Hamilton is a jerk. He should be penalized - I suggest losing 12 pts.





    yes especially after hearing his comments: "I apologise to Kimi if I ruined his race but that sort of thing happens," so i never ever saw Shumacher doing anything like that! Or Senna! or Lauda! maybe Alonso!?!? nop.... it just a rookie spoiled like him that knows that he can do whatever he wants that says anything like this.



    No Schumy didn't your right, but he did deliberately take Damon Hill out of a race by ramming him cos he was winning. Now that was stupid, petulant and very dangerous...



    So did Prost and Senna. It would seem that there is a recurring pattern among the best .

    Jun 9, 2008 4:21:13 PM

    MKW
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    Reply to: reginos

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    reginos said:


    How can you take Hamilton seriously as a complete sports person (in spite of his huge talent as a driver), when in his entourage is father Anthony (aka CGT crasher), P Diddy and that other female popstar?



    Agree. We all know white sports stars only hang out with Nobel laureates and global warming spokespersons and spend all their free time teaching sexual abstinence and avoidance of alcohol and recreational drugs to schoolchildren,when not practicing the oboe.

    Jun 9, 2008 5:04:12 PM

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:


    How can you take Hamilton seriously as a complete sports person (in spite of his huge talent as a driver), when in his entourage is father Anthony (aka CGT crasher), P Diddy and that other female popstar?



    Agree. We all know white sports stars only hang out with Nobel laureates and global warming spokespersons and spend all their free time teaching sexual abstinence and avoidance of alcohol and recreational drugs to schoolchildren,when not practicing the oboe.



    Erm, I dont think Reginos brought Hamiltons skin color into this. What does black or white have anything to do with this?

    Jun 9, 2008 5:13:58 PM

    Alex18_996CC Offline
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    it was a entertaining race, love the double overtake of massa, and the hamilton-rosberg situation was priceless !!!!!.....

    on the other hand, too bad Alonso finished like that, he was going for podium for sure, but again the R28 cant compete, not even vs bmw Heidfield !!! .....Again another mistake of Alonso spinning, he must stop doing personal errors, already too much for him !!!!!!

    by the way!!, Kimi already has stated that he is officially leaving F1 in 2009 !!!! , good for him, I suppose!!

    Jun 9, 2008 5:49:58 PM

    JoeRockhead
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    Reply to: ResB

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    ResB said:


    No Schumy didn't your right, but he did deliberately take Damon Hill out of a race by ramming him cos he was winning. Now that was stupid, petulant and very dangerous...



    He did the same thing to Villeneuve too.

    Jun 9, 2008 6:05:17 PM

    MKW
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:


    How can you take Hamilton seriously as a complete sports person (in spite of his huge talent as a driver), when in his entourage is father Anthony (aka CGT crasher), P Diddy and that other female popstar?



    Agree. We all know white sports stars only hang out with Nobel laureates and global warming spokespersons and spend all their free time teaching sexual abstinence and avoidance of alcohol and recreational drugs to schoolchildren,when not practicing the oboe.



    Erm, I dont think Reginos brought Hamiltons skin color into this. What does black or white have anything to do with this?



    Disagree . I detected racism in his comments . Why would he otherwise mention a black Rapper , P Diddy ? Would he be a more "complete sports person" if he hung out with an indie pop musician such as Sufjan Stevens ?

    Jun 9, 2008 6:12:24 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Disagree . I detected racism in his comments. [...]



    Sorry, I do not agree about that. I always thought Nicole Scherzinger has a strong tan because of the sun, not because of her ancestors.

    Relax a bit, we do not have to agree on these subjects but let's take it easy.

    Jun 9, 2008 6:19:54 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MKW

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    MKW said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:


    How can you take Hamilton seriously as a complete sports person (in spite of his huge talent as a driver), when in his entourage is father Anthony (aka CGT crasher), P Diddy and that other female popstar?



    Agree. We all know white sports stars only hang out with Nobel laureates and global warming spokespersons and spend all their free time teaching sexual abstinence and avoidance of alcohol and recreational drugs to schoolchildren,when not practicing the oboe.



    Erm, I dont think Reginos brought Hamiltons skin color into this. What does black or white have anything to do with this?



    Disagree . I detected racism in his comments . Why would he otherwise mention a black Rapper , P Diddy ? Would he be a more "complete sports person" if he hung out with an indie pop musician such as Sufjan Stevens ?





    I don't find his comment racist. The fact that all those ridiculous people are black is just a coincidence (or is it? ). Anyway, I guess hanging with Hamilton is just P Diddy's way of supporting a brutha from da hood in his struggle against the evil white establishment .

    Had you read more of reginos' comments you would've known that he is extremely tolerant in general.

    Jun 9, 2008 6:26:43 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Canadian F1 Grand Prix

    Fully agree!

    BTW, I hate Vanilla Ice(White moron rapper)...
     
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